Cummins 4bt into my FJ60 (1 Viewer)

[boots4]

I'm no machinist so I can only share what I saw from the engine rebuilder I trust and had do this part of my work. This was after he brought over his honer and ran it. He wasn't extremely happy with that so he asked for me to bring the block to his shop and that it might need a bore job. So this is what the cylinders looked like after his first session.

You can see some minor imperfections in the wall.

This one had some minor vertical scoring too.

Unfortunately I didn't get the comparison pics that would have been helpful and this is the best one I could find after I got the block back and started reassembly but he was able to do some more honing and removed most of the imperfections in the previous pics. There were still line markings at the tops of the cylinders but he didn't believe it needed a bore job so I was able to go with standard sized parts.

Comparing your pics to mine looks like you might need some more work. I know it's not great to hear but now is the time to take care of it with it all apart. However, that's just my opinion, if you've got an engine rebuilder that you trust telling you it's fine to run than I would think that would have more weight than my opinion.

 

[Wyoming]

My cylinders look like that after maybe 700-800 passes with a fine stone hone and then 400 passes with a coarse stone (That's 4800 passes for the whole block. It makes my back ache just thinking about it). The spec in the manual for the cylinder bore is 4.02". Mine are measuring 4.018" at the top and around 4.012" half way down. I'm using measuring equipment that is not ideal for the task, but will get me close enough to see what is what. So you see, I have plenty of room to take material if need be. This is truly a low mileage block.

 

[Wyoming]

It's time to start to think about getting this beast started in the winter. The only thing I've found so far is called a grid heater. It appears to sit on top of the intake manifold and heat the intake air as it passes into the cylinders. It is square and has an element snaking back and forth inside. As well, you need a couple of 12v, 100 amp relays to make it work. Is this the best system? Is there another? I've seen a "Fuel Heater" on one of the used parts sites, do I need one of those?

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Looking good Wyoming.. your getting good at the paint work anyway HA ... Seriously.. great job man.

I'll be coming up to Jackson in a week or so (next Saturday probably), let me know if ya need anything. If not maybe we can grab a beer. Offer still stands.

J

 

[cullmancruiser]

A grid heater should be adequate most of the time. B series Cummins are usually very easy to start as long as you can spin them fast enough. I don't have any starting aids on mine and I have started it at temps as low as 25 degrees, but I have a big battery and big cables. With any temp lower than that with my setup I would not trust it to start unaided. For those times I make use of the block heater and starting is no problem. I'm sure Jackson WY gets much colder than Cullman AL so I think a grid heater and a block heater combined is a good idea for you. I think dual batteries is also a must do in your case.

It's time to start to think about getting this beast started in the winter. The only thing I've found so far is called a grid heater. It appears to sit on top of the intake manifold and heat the intake air as it passes into the cylinders. It is square and has an element snaking back and forth inside. As well, you need a couple of 12v, 100 amp relays to make it work. Is this the best system? Is there another? I've seen a "Fuel Heater" on one of the used parts sites, do I need one of those?

 

[Wyoming]

A little colder. I'm thinking about starting in 20 and 30 below zero weather. lol! One Christmas here, back in the 80's, it was 63 below zero.

Anyway, on to last nights work. I usually try to get the worst out of the way first. Oops, I left the head for last. What a pain in the...uh...well you know. I started by building a spring compression tool. I built it right, but my buddy had to show me the best way to use it. Doh! It worked though. In the second picture you can see that when compressing the spring, the valve will open. I used a plastic dead blow hammer to then tap the valve from the bottom which realeased the keepers (Picture three). If you follow in my footsteps, remember to put a rag over the top of the spring when you tap the valve with the hammer, otherwise they will fly away.

 

[Wyoming]

Once you remove all the keepers and springs, the valves will slide right out. be sure to mark them carefully so that you get the valves all back in the right holes. The valves look to be good, I will have to have someone else check them over to be sure, there is some discoloration on one of the seating surfaces on the number five valve. Check out those intake and exhaust ports. Thank goodness I went with the total rebuild. Although getting the head into the parts cleaner and then rotating it to clean it was seven kinds of fun, and, I still didn't get it totally clean. I spent about an hour with solvent and steel wool cleaning the bottom of the head where the cylinders left deposits. I don't want to use anything more aggressive because I don't want to scratch the surface of the head.

This head has lots of rust on the surfaces which are all different andgles and a bunch of recesses, does anyone have any ideas how to get rid of the rust? is there a brush on chemical I can use? Ideas?

 

[Wyoming]

Parts, Parts and more parts...
I got some parts in this week: Steering pump, vacuum pump, tappets, 2000 degree paint, and an intercooler. To those of you who either sold me the parts or pointed me in the right direction, thanks.

Still looking for: The fan hub (I have the pully), the belt tensioner, a heater grid and the relays, the turbo (He keeps telling me it's being built, but only when I call), turbo plumbing (Anyone recommend a kit?), and stuff I can get from NAPA.

Anyone have anything to add?

 

[Kief]

I like using a small magnet on the keepers.
If you aren't going to have a machine shop do the head my protocal would be to degrease and clean with Castrol Superclean- hose it off. Scotch brite the head and block deck- straight edge both if tweeked then go talk to a machinist. I'd lean toward paying a machine shop to check it over, maybe even check it for cracks.
Anyways, Scotchbrite it and wire brush the ports, use scraps of fine sand paper as needed in the ports. Sand the deck with a fine (220) grit and then 400 wrapped around a really flat block of aluminum or glass or? after the Scotch brite (4" grinder type is my fav' with light pressure and fine grit). Don't get crazy and work the areas evenly. Then you can get some lapping compound and lap the valves yourself if you want to go the cheap rout- it also lets you see if your seats are pitted... A good machinist will get all the contact angles right and will let you know if your valves are in spec. and the guides as well. I don't have the tools to mic' the guides and valves but would insert a valve lightly oiled(WD40) and check for side to side play. Then check with regular engine oil if questionable.
Of course keep any grit out of your valve guides and clean the heck out of it when you are done.. If you can afford to have it professionally done I would recommend that route.

 

[Wyoming]

You're right kief. I took it in to NAPA and they are going to glass bead it. Should look great when its done. Better than I could do!

Just got my new injectors. Nice! Got them from City Diesel and Cullman and his buddies. There is nothing like getting parts in the mail. It is like Christmas! I've got so many parts coming in, I get a little disappointed when nothing comes in.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

You're right kief. I took it in to NAPA and they are going to glass bead it. Should look great when its done. Better than I could do!

Just got my new injectors. Nice! Got them from City Diesel and Cullman and his buddies. There is nothing like getting parts in the mail. It is like Christmas! I've got so many parts coming in, I get a little disappointed when nothing comes in.

I hear ya on that one.. I love LANDCRUISER CHRISTMAS DAYS!!! I've had A LOT LATELY...

J

 

[Wyoming]

Not a big weekend for working on the engine. I was only able to work on it for a few hours on Sunday. The head came back from NAPA and looked beautiful after glass beading. I had to flush it with water to make sure all the grit was out. Then I dried it with compressed air, but as you can see it still rusted in that short amount of time. Grrrr! I was all in a nit until I realized it's just a ******* engine. So I wiped it down with acetone and painted the darn thing.

 

[Wyoming]

One of the guys got the sand blaster working. Man, is that a nice piece of equipment to have working again. I blasted a few parts for painting and sprayed them. Unfortunately, I ran out of primer, so I couldn't get to the engine cooler cover, but I will tonight. Have I mentioned how much I hate painting?

 

[Wyoming]

lately, I have been talking to people about getting the rig started in the winter. As some of you know, it gets pretty cold here. Wee can easily go a couple of weeks with below zero temperatures. Twenty to thirty below zero is not that uncommon. I will be putting in an oil pan heater, a block heater and a grid heater to heat the induction air during cold starts. This all sounds good if you can get diesel to the engine without is gelling up. I have been offered several solutions for gelling, some simple and some more complicated. Complicated first: this involves wrapping the fuel lines in heat tape and somehow keeping the fuel tank warm, I'm assuming a tank warmer of some sort. That would be a lot of electricity to keep the truck warm when not driving it. Next, is using an expensive fuel additive everytijme I fill up. I don't know what is in it, but it is supposed to keep the diesel flowing. Last is somehting I heard just today from the Xerox repair guy: He said to run gasoline in the diesel. In his old VW he runs 2 gallons for a 12 gallon tank. Now, I've heard of people running gas in the diesel before, just in passing, and never gave it much thought...until I started worrying about gelling. What do you guys think? Have you heard of this? Does it work? What is the max. percentage of gas you can run? Does it hurt power? Parts? Anybody?

 

[cullmancruiser]

Why don't you give Taber Diesel a call with some of these questions. They have a shop in Taber, Alberta and one in Sweetgrass, Montana. If anyone has experience with cold weather diesel it will be them. 403-223-9636

lately, I have been talking to people about getting the rig started in the winter. As some of you know, it gets pretty cold here. Wee can easily go a couple of weeks with below zero temperatures. Twenty to thirty below zero is not that uncommon. I will be putting in an oil pan heater, a block heater and a grid heater to heat the induction air during cold starts. This all sounds good if you can get diesel to the engine without is gelling up. I have been offered several solutions for gelling, some simple and some more complicated. Complicated first: this involves wrapping the fuel lines in heat tape and somehow keeping the fuel tank warm, I'm assuming a tank warmer of some sort. That would be a lot of electricity to keep the truck warm when not driving it. Next, is using an expensive fuel additive everytijme I fill up. I don't know what is in it, but it is supposed to keep the diesel flowing. Last is somehting I heard just today from the Xerox repair guy: He said to run gasoline in the diesel. In his old VW he runs 2 gallons for a 12 gallon tank. Now, I've heard of people running gas in the diesel before, just in passing, and never gave it much thought...until I started worrying about gelling. What do you guys think? Have you heard of this? Does it work? What is the max. percentage of gas you can run? Does it hurt power? Parts? Anybody?

 

[Elbert]

what do other people do with their diesels in the winter in the local area? I know they make a winter blend fuel and you would obviously want to run the fuel additive... I personally would stay away from the "home brewed" solutions. Seems like you will need a winter front, an oil pan heater, coolant heater and maybe a battery blanket.. You better have some good HD batteries planned. Obviously you would want the OEM cummins starting aids that come on that engine...which I don't have first hand knowledge of...but grid heater, glow plug setup...etc?

I personally don't think its a good idea to dilute diesel fuel by adding gas. Why not post up on the 70 section or the dedicated diesel section and ask what the guys in Canada do?

Coolant heater would be # 1 ...oil pan heater would be 2, and maybe a battery blanket and winter front plus the appropriate fuel additive would be the extent I would go... but that would be me. When it gets "crazy" cold, diesels can be a royal pain in the @$$ to get started and then getting them warmed up to a reasonable operating temp is also a challenge. Of course most of what I related deals with starting..... if the fuel gels then all of that is a waste. I would locate the fuel filters in an easy accessible area....

I've heard of people using kerosene and transmission fluid....but I think there is a reason they make the winter fuel additive and winter blend fuel...I would be concerned about reducing the lubrication properties of the fuel by using some of the items I mentioned that are not formulated for that specific purpose.

I worked for a few years in a Class 8 Heavy Truck MFG plant....back then caterpillar engines were the number 1 seller followed by cummins and then detroit. Standard were engine mounted coolant heaters, also saw a lot of oil pan heaters for "cold climate" trucks, and then battery blankets too. Not as common were wabsto and other brand coolant type heaters which are expensive $$.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

what do other people do with their diesels in the winter in the local area? I know they make a winter blend fuel and you would obviously want to run the fuel additive... I personally would stay away from the "home brewed" solutions. Seems like you will need a winter front, an oil pan heater, coolant heater and maybe a battery blanket.. You better have some good HD batteries planned. Obviously you would want the OEM cummins starting aids that come on that engine...which I don't have first hand knowledge of...but grid heater, glow plug setup...etc?

I personally don't think its a good idea to dilute diesel fuel by adding gas. Why not post up on the 70 section or the dedicated diesel section and ask what the guys in Canada do?

Coolant heater would be # 1 ...oil pan heater would be 2, and maybe a battery blanket and winter front plus the appropriate fuel additive would be the extent I would go... but that would be me. When it gets "crazy" cold, diesels can be a royal pain in the @$$ to get started and then getting them warmed up to a reasonable operating temp is also a challenge. Of course most of what I related deals with starting..... if the fuel gels then all of that is a waste. I would locate the fuel filters in an easy accessible area....

I've heard of people using kerosene and transmission fluid....but I think there is a reason they make the winter fuel additive and winter blend fuel...I would be concerned about reducing the lubrication properties of the fuel by using some of the items I mentioned that are not formulated for that specific purpose.

I worked for a few years in a Class 8 Heavy Truck MFG plant....back then caterpillar engines were the number 1 seller followed by cummins and then detroit. Standard were engine mounted coolant heaters, also saw a lot of oil pan heaters for "cold climate" trucks, and then battery blankets too. Not as common were wabsto and other brand coolant type heaters which are expensive $$.

In the winter they do change blends in this area. Usually a #2 and #1 mix is standard at about a 75/25% ratio. Some diesel providers blend to this ratio and might add kerosene to the blend and/or add CFPP inhibitors to the blends to help reduce the gel effect.

I wouldn't recommend adding kerosene on your own due to the unknown ratio needed. Might cause adverse effects to the fueling system.

CFPP= cold filter plugging point

I've run a Dodge/Cummins diesel for the past 6 winters in Wyoming and never had my truck gel once or even plugged in my block heater. I drive between 100 and 250 miles a day year round here.

But, paraffins/waxes start forming at colder temperatures.. I was told to help this even further from happening is to always keep your tank above the half mark to full due to the higher volume. Theory is that the more volume in the tank the longer it will take to start the gelling process.

J

 

[Wyoming]

I finally started to put some things back together yesterday. I started with the head. As you can see, I went back to my homemade tool to compress the springs. Because the springs were taller to start, I had to take out a nut/spacer and turn the fulcrum on its side to get more height. The valves went back together just fine and the collets were only slightly a pain in the neck. The new valve seals are a different design from the originals, they have a skirt and a flange on them that allows the spring to seat on top of it. This ensures that the valve seal will never slip off its nipple. All the valve stems got a light coat of 90 weight gear oil before installation.

Note: I printed out a copy of the service manual that Boots directed me to earlier in the thread. If you have the ability, do it.

 

[Wyoming]

Next, I put the cam tappets in and zip tied them into place until the cam goes in. As you can see, this is the easiest time to install them. I used Lubtiplate as the assembly grease which was specified in the manual. You can see a tube of it on the bench so you know what to look for at the store, if you don't know already. Then it was on to the rotating assembly. The first thing I installed were the now famous piston oilers. I just used a slim punch and hand pressure to push them into place. You want to be careful here not to damage them as they are made out of plastic. If you get an overhaul kit, you may recieve two different kinds, but if you took out the old ones you should not have any trouble figuring out which ones go back in.

 

[Wyoming]

The next step was the crank shaft. I put in the bearings after making sure the new ones matched the old ones. You can do this by looking at the numbers on the back of the bearing. Once I was sure, I seated the upper halves in the block. I put the side with the tang in first and them pressed the other side in with my thumb. Very little pressure is required to seat them. You will see that the holes in the journals don't match exactly with the hiles in the bearings. For the piston oiler holes, it is so the piston oilers can't back out. The others? I don't know. And Lubriplate. Installing the crank shaft was next. I used the tail end of two ratchet straps. I ran them around the number one and number four conecting rod journals and used them to lift the crank without damaging it. Remember, the operating word here is "gentle". I wanted to be able to place the crank into the journals gently and slowly so as not to damage any inportant surfaces. The darn thing weighs a lot! If you are not sure you can control it by yourself, make sure you have a friend handy to help you. Once you get the crank seated, move it back and forth, gently, just to make sure it rotates smoothly. Once I was satisfied, I started installing the main bearing caps. And Lubriplate. Again, gently place the caps in their positions. They are marked one through five so I was ale to return them to their proper position. As I placed each one, I torqued the bolts to manual specification, just a slight tightening to keep them in place. After each one, I checked to make sure the crank was still able to rotate freely and smoothly. Then I followed the manual specs for the final torque values and sequence, and checked again to ensure smooth and free rotation.