Crap...PROBLEMS!

[crushers]

I am driving from ottawa to calgary, then vancouver in a couple weeks. The last time I was in calgary I noticed a bit of black smoke. I thought I would get my compression and injectors tested to see what the problem was since the cruiser (bj60) shouldn't be smoking at 1100m.

I have since decided to forget about the compression since I can't do anything about it and would rather not know if it is bad. At idle when I put my hand in front of the blowby tube, the exhaust coming out has about as much pressure as I can blow with my mouth.

I was still planning on having the injectors tested & rebuilt if need be but this thread has turned me off a little.

I was able to get from Regina to Calgary on one tank before if that gives anybody an idea of the mileage I get. I think thats about 750km on an 96L tank which i probably ran down to about 80L or so.

don't be an ostrich with your head in the sand, get the compression tested. better to know the bad news than get half way here and run into problems. it can get expensive in backwater Canada to fix a diesel....
do you have an altitude compensator on your pump? if not then you can get black smoke here in Calgary. my HZJ75 ran clean in Pismo at see level but here in Calgary it puts out some very heavy black smoke under throttle... i am not concerned about it at all but the guy behind me might wish i would...
cheers

 

[cruiser_guy]

I am driving from ottawa to calgary, then vancouver in a couple weeks. The last time I was in calgary I noticed a bit of black smoke. I thought I would get my compression and injectors tested to see what the problem was since the cruiser (bj60) shouldn't be smoking at 1100m.

I have since decided to forget about the compression since I can't do anything about it and would rather not know if it is bad. At idle when I put my hand in front of the blowby tube, the exhaust coming out has about as much pressure as I can blow with my mouth.

I was still planning on having the injectors tested & rebuilt if need be but this thread has turned me off a little.

I was able to get from Regina to Calgary on one tank before if that gives anybody an idea of the mileage I get. I think thats about 750km on an 96L tank which i probably ran down to about 80L or so.

I've replaced/rebuilt injectors several times, as I am sure many others have, and have had NO problems of the kind that Moose has had at all.

I would not hesitate to rebuild the injectors if they have not been done for a long time (well over 100,000kM). The only caution I would give is to ensure that the scavenging pipe that connects all the injectors is not bent ot torqued at all when removing the injectors. It may require a large wrench to hold the injector while removing the nuts that secure the scavenging pipe.

I even have a set of rebuilt injectors with me here in Guatemala that were rebuilt before leaving home in B.C. just in case I need them here.

The black smoke is possibly due to slight over fuelling due to altitude (mine smoked quite a bit around Mexico City (7000 - 8000 ft.) before I turbo'd it a year and a half ago) or it could be injectors if they are really bad.

 

[Greg_B]

Cross_Country, do you have a copy of the Cruiser Assistance club with you for your trek? Agreed the Wayne and Cruiser_Guy: Check out any concerns now.

gb

 

[cross_country]

I have never heard of a Cruiser Assitance Club. Do I use it to beat off throngs of envious heep owners?

 

[Greg_B]

I have never heard of a Cruiser Assitance Club. Do I use it to beat off throngs of envious heep owners?

Yup, look up at the links on the top of the page, and on the right you will see a link to the Cruiser Assistance Club.

gb

 

[Island Moose]

Very interesting...

I have heard from a diesel specialist shop in Singapore who rebuilds 3B-2 engines. He tells me the following:

Dear Mr Morrison,

The nozzle opening pressure is at 145 - 155 kg/cm2.

I hope this will help you out.

Thank you.


Regards,
Thomas Lim

I'm currently at 125kg/cm2...a difference of 20%. It would seems this may the root of my troubles! I'll pull the injectors for the third time tomorrow, and take them back to Action. I would hope he'd redo them pretty quickly.

I will of course report back.

 

[cross_country]

injector removal process

Looking at page 117-128 or so of the 3B manual I see it says there are non-reusable gaskets. They must be easy to come by, does anyone have a part number for those? Will the dealer?

The manual also says you need a special tool to remove the injection nozzles. It looks like it may just be a deep socket?

Is the usual process to remove the lines from the injector and the pump, or just the injector and just coerce the line out of the way when removing and installing the injector?

thanks for any tips. Moose i bet you are pro at this by now

 

[Island Moose]

Hey Cross...

The injectors come out of the head with a 27mm deep socket. You can get them at Cambodian Tire for about $10 for the black, impact wrench version (don't use an impact wrench ! )

I did it twice, once removing the pipes at both ends, and once just the holders and the ends at the injectors. I have to say it ends up being easier just pulling the pipes...they really get in the way trying to back out the injectors, and you really don;t want to bend them, lest they develop a crack or worse. If you have the inline pump, I think you'll have an easier time than me, the rotary has the pipes coming from the side that faces the firewall, and you get to them on your back with a shorty 17mm wrench and a lot of reaching around steering linkage etc..

If you do have the pipes off, run some carb cleaner through them and blow out with compressed air, just to make sure they're clean. Also, I make a habit of stuffing clean paper towel into each opening as I remove the injectors...just in case.

The little washers are likely going to stay behind in the hole, so get a coat hanger and bend a hook into the tip to scoop them out. They will not fall into the head, but try not to dislodge any crap around the edge into the hole.

Moose

P.S. Both the washers and the seats should be replaced, and are both available at the dealer. When you re-install the seats, put them on the injector first, using some grease to hold them there as you thread the injectors back in.
Install the washers by sliding them down a screwdriver that you poke down the hole.

 

[Greg_B]

Dental picks work great for fishing washers out of tight spaces, or lowering them in...

gb

 

[wesintl]

the seat is 11176-56010
the gasket is 11177-56010

 

[cruiser_guy]

When you re-install the seats, put them on the injector first, using some grease to hold them there as you thread the injectors back in.

Why grease? I just find a crochet hook from the wife and lower the seat and washers into the hole. Grease would make me nervous with gumming up the nozzle.

 

[crushers]

i can't agree with the grease idea... set the crush gaskets in the hole and the spacers should be friction fit...

 

[theSherpa]

I'll second these guys on that...the Cummins 6AT books specifically state "clean and dry" on installation of the insulators (washers). Also states "never reuse insulating washers"...replace every time injectors come out. FWIW...

Steve

 

[diesel newbie]

shudder and shaking engines- crap shoot!

I have no idea if this will help you out or not. But based on the string of helpfull ideas and the shared frustration of a "thought I would make it better but made it worse" syndrome I thought I might share what little I know.

Last year I bought a 81 BJ41 and it smoked like a big rig till no one could see up or down the street, and shook like giant paint shaker- mostly on start up but then continued for a while afterward. Yeh I was more than a little concerned (a big bit PO-ed). Anyway it seems to me it was a couple of things I did and it went away... which one specifically fixed it I have no idea. First I tested the glow plugs and replaced the injectors. Then I found out the glow plug "manual toggle switch" was missing and installed a relay and switch (this is standard equip on my 81 but I think yours came with a timer for the glow plugs). Then I drained the fuel, and fuel water separator and put in new stuff with some high quality fuel conditioner. Most of this I assume based on the postings were done. THe big fix was swaping out the old "fuel control relay" (the truck came with a spare) and cleaning the contacts with a quality (non crappy tire) industrial electrical contact cleaner. I then took it out for a 2 hour drive to knock the cob webs out of her! It seemed to work!

I should mention that this cured the "smoking dragon" and cured the other curious problem I had- the truck would occasionally not start or shut off for no apparent reason because the relay also controls the fuel solinoid. The only other thing I can think of is intalling a manual glow plug firing toggle switch- maybe your timer that controls the duration of plug glow is buggered. I know this is a good mod anyway (seen others do it on 60 and 70 series trucks so that on rough cold starts they can manually choose to glow the plugs while the engine is running. Now when the engine starts rough I just hit the toggle for about 10-20 sec (never over 30 sec) and the engine idle comes down and smooths out and the smoke disappears.

I know your engine is a bit different than mine but who knows hopefully it will help. ... and I thought I was the only person who tried to "improve" a perfectly well running engine by tinkering and then chased problems for months to come....

Good luck
Eric

 

[cross_country]

When you guys say crack the injectors till bubbles come out, does that mean you loosen the nut on the hard line into the injector a turn, or do you loosen right off?

Should I be able to use the little hand pump (which leaks diesel everywhere but does offer lots of resistance) to pump diesel all the way through the filter, inline pump, right to the end of the hard line?

diesel comes out the bleed valve on the filter and on the pump, but not the lines.
Cruiser won't start, batteries are dead.

thanks for all your tips, i got new nozzles. 185$ + tax for the four of them rebuilt. The old ones had a wide spray and were concave around the tip which I hear is bad.

 

[cruiser_guy]

Cross country,

I would loosen them almost to the point of removing from the injector then pump until fuel comes out. Tighten them down and fire it up. Then just crack each one until diesel comes out without air. That should get all the air out. If you hoped to start it without bleeding that wasn't a good idea.

 

[cross_country]

wasn't a good idea because it didn't work or wasn't a good idea because it will damage something?

 

[cruiser_guy]

It won't damage anything but if you don't turn it over there is only air in the lines from the pump to the injectors, bleed it and you're good to go. Turn it over and there can be air anywhere may be a tougher ie: longer bleeding job.

 

[cross_country]

got'er going again. The injector closest to the firewall was able to get diesel via my leaky priming pump and so was one other. I tightened them up and did a whole lotta cranking and the other two eventually got some diesel as well.

I noticed immediately my idle is about 250-300 rpm faster and much smoother.

Thanks for all the help, this thread and http://www.birfield.com/modules.php?name=Archives&p=/archives/html/dtlc/2003-03/msg00533.html were mighty helpful. I never would have tackled this without them.