Crank and No Start!!!

[SBFJ60FIG]

Matt...it sounds like you're trying to keep from buying a FP unless for sure needed is that right when you're talking about the $300 part?

Pat on the back for you, you're doing well IMO in making a diagnosis vs. tossing parts at it.

So here is my advice, it's easy enough to pull the pump. My old '97 FJ80 was sold to a mudder who then became a friend and called me shortly after buying the truck to tell me he had a crank no start issue.

I gave him the, mantra I've said here many many many times when dealing with a CNS (crank no start) you're missing one of three things-

1. Spark
2. Fuel
3. Mechanical

So I told him to shoot some starter fluid or carb spray down the throttle body and see if she fires....she did. Well, he took it to the dealer and they said FP....he took it home and put one in himself. Now, anyone else -B-, Landtank feel free or even CDan to disagree with me; but I have never EVER had a Yota smoke a fuel pump.

My pal, called me again a few weeks (or days) later, CNS again. Ok, enough long boring CNS story.

It turned out the sender/fuel pump bracket thing, (what you see when looking down at the top of the tank) on my old his new FZJ had some corrosion and would not have continuity at all times. Ergo-intermittent CNS. My unfortunate nascent/wannabe wrench following mis-diagnosis from the dealer wasted his $$$ on a new FP.

My suggestion---here is the moral of my story for those I have now put to sleep---is that I'd pull the pump, bench test it, check the sender/bracket and of course see if you can find a short in the FP wiring from the tank on back.

But if there were a short-to-ground we'd be blowing fuses, conversely if it's a positive lead chaffed, sure that could give you the CNS issue.

I'm still a little unclear/confused by why you have no MIL when the pump/sender lead is hooked up and you are KOEO (key on engine off). But unhook it and KOEO and your MIL is now on?

Alright....debate me peeps

Jason AKA Figgy

 

[k91]

You have it right....I unplug the FP and the check engine light came on. I plugged it back in and the light went out, I had to do about three times just to make sure I was not seeing things. It's really weird. One other thing, I still can not find the fuel pump relay and I really want to check it first, anyone have pics of it's location. I was told by the dealer that it is on the passenger side fender, but could not find it. Thanks for the replies!

 

[k91]

Now that I think of it, if it was the relay, how would that affect the MIL/CEL when I unplug the FP?? I would think that if it were a relay, the light would not illuminate whether I plugged or unplugged the FP.

 

[Beowulf]

The Fuel Pump Relay is located under the bonnet, on the left side of the engine bay (US Driver Side), aft of the fuse box, and just inside a large hole in the left front fender. It is mounted on a bracket.

-B-

 

[k91]

Beo....So youre saying on the driver's side then right? My fuse box is on the driver's side fender.....I will check there, thanks!

 

[Beowulf]

Now, anyone else -B-, Landtank feel free or even CDan to disagree with me; but I have never EVER had a Yota smoke a fuel pump.

The only fuel pump issues that I can remember are Doug's wire shorting inside the tank which blew the EFI fuse, plus a few guys with fuel pump relay issues. In support of your theory, FJ Ben (IIRC) had the same problem that you described that your friend had; corrosion/bad connection at the FP sender. I am pretty sure we heard of at least 1 other with the same issue (wiring problem at fuel pump.) We've also heard of a few with 'clogged socks' which is caused by bad fuel clogging up the in-tank fuel filter.

I do not recall anyone that had a "confirmed dead" fuel pump on a US 80-Series. It wouldn't surprise me if we had some that were unreported or that I didn't read the threads but IMHO a failed FP would be rare.

I'll see if I can find FJ Ben's thread because he posted a good description of the trouble-shooting and he posted pics.

... Later .... I guess the pics are gone but here is the thread: https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/228405-rth-crank-no-start-grrrr.html

-B-

 

[Beowulf]

Beo....So youre saying on the driver's side then right? My fuse box is on the driver's side fender.....I will check there, thanks!

Yes, but it is better if we use left/right instead of driver because this is an international forum and we don't all drive on the left side. We also refer to left/right based on someone sitting in the driver seat, facing forward. Or we post a picture with a big yellow arrow pointing to the part in question.

(Photos courtesy of SUMOTOY's FPR thread)

-B-

 

[askeyey]

I do not recall anyone that had a "confirmed dead" fuel pump on a US 80-Series. It wouldn't surprise me if we had some that were unreported or that I didn't read the threads but IMHO a failed FP would be rare.

Is the pump from my 62 different than the one in your 80. I had the same issues as here and after a complete diagnostic a la mud advice the only thing left was to swap the pump. That fixed the problem immediately. I bench tested the old pump and it would spin but not push fluid. Never did figure out why.

 

[k91]

Thanks for the photo...I suspected that was the relay...I know where it is now!

Not sure if the pump is the same as the 62....good question

 

[k91]

I just checked the FP relay and it checks good. I also checked landtanks sugestion on the FP connector and found that it read ohms on most of the pins. Not sure which pins should and should not show ohms....everything leads to a faulty FP to me..

 

[k91]

Update.....

Being completly frustrated at the Jiffy Lube idiots and chasing wires...I started over checking items and found that I have no spark from the coil. I discovered that there is not +12 volts to the coil. I also checked the diagnosis box B+ and could not find voltage there.
My head is really throbbing at this point, so I am calling it quits for the day.....

 

[k91]

TTT....

Today discovered that I do indeed have voltage to the coil, but no spark from there. I am still confused as to why I still do not have a CEL in the "on" position. Any thoughts?

 

[TrickyT]

Have you gone through the steps described in the FAQ: https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...es-faq-item-recommend-keeping-copy-truck.html

 

[k91]

I did follow that and I found that I did not have spark from the coil, nor did I have voltage at the check connector, nor a CEL. The most interesting part is that when I disconnect the FP, the CEL light comes on. My head hurts now......That's why I sent it off to the dealership

 

[CJF]

Update?

 

[k91]

Since I said that I would close out this thread....I got the 80 back today from the dealership and they did not seem too confident that they resolved the issue. they discovered that there was a pre-existing aftermarket alarm system in the vehicle installed by PO. It turns out that this alarm system has it's own ECM and when it was installed, it was installed in line with the ignition system and prior to the vehicle ECM. Apparently the alarm system ECM had some sort of a freak out and cut out power to the vehicle ECM, leading to the lack of a CEL at the key "On" position. This does not however explain why the CEL would illuminate when I unplugged the fuel pump with the key on. I still dont understand that one....At any rate, they completely disconnected the alarm system and the vehicle is fine now. The technician also replaced the EFI relay, which is one of the items I tested with a multimeter and checked fine. I also replaced the EFI relay with a new one just to rule it out as the culprit prior to taking it to the dealership. So, I am not completely sold on the EFI relay being faulty. Just a bit of history on this vehicle..I had a remote start installed in Jan 07, remote start stopped working in June 08, Wife rear ended another vehicle in July causing $8,500.00 damage and then this incident. I'm really hoping this does not turn into a electrical gremlin. Sorry for the long post and thanks for all the previous replies, Matt