Cooling System Refresh Tips (1 Viewer)

Gretsch

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Hello all. I have to burn some vacation time I have accrued before end of year so thought I would use it to start on my 60 series cooling system refresh this week. I already have all the parts collected(still waiting on recently shipped smog pump delete pulley from TLC Performance). I plan on replacing all the main hoses, various pipes, the WP, fan, thermostat, fan clutch, t-stat housing gaskets/bolts and while in there the crank seal and timing cover gasket. Also getting the radiator boiled out and cleaned/repaired. Typical while in there stuff.

I have searched through the various WP replacement threads and tried to gather opinions on the use of various sealers and whatnot for gaskets and bolts related to this project, as well as general tips for getting this stuff done. I have a pretty good handle on what I am in for I think. It seems, like many things on this forum however, folks are divided on these topics and there are many different ways to do this. The FSM I have access to makes little mention of the use of gasket sealer anywhere I can see and seems to just suggest the use of dry gaskets everywhere. The only mention I could find in the FSM on the use of thread sealer for this particular job was on some of the timing cover bolts.

This will be a big job for me and my skills. So at risk of exposing my noob-ness, wanted to poll the forum for best practices members have used to get this done. Specifically:

Use of sealer or anti-seize on the t-stat housing to engine mounting bolts
Use of sealer or anti-seize on the WP mounting bolts
Use of sealer on WP gasket
Use of sealer on T-stat housing to engine gasket
Use of sealer on T-stat housing gasket
Use of sealer on timing cover gasket
Use of sealer around the crank seal where it contacts the timing cover
Use of anti-seize on the bolts for things like the alternator bracket

Any other tips member care to mention here I'll take (use WD-40 for help with getting hoses on for example or specifics on getting the crank pulley on and off without breaking things, etc.).

Also any tips on flushing the cooling system while doing this. FSM does not seem to mention anything about that but wondering if the forum recommends that or not, and if so best way to approach it.

Also, any reason to worry about replacing the plate seal for the front plate that the timing cover sits on. I am not sure I am up for removing cam shafts and such to replace that and would prolly turn that over to someone else.

While I respect what the FSM has to offer, I also know that it was written many years ago and perhaps folks have found creative ways to make this job easier. Any tips here would be much appreciated.

As always, thanks in advance.
 

OSS

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Here's some general tips that served me well for 30 years with my cruiser:

Use antiseize grease on every bolt you remove and use again. Be careful torquing them if greased because the torque specs are for dry clean (new) bolts.

The only thing I used silicon sealant on on the whole car was the water pump outer gasket. Both sides.

Replace the 4 thermostat housing bolts with new Toyota bolts. Use antiseize on those bolts cuz they eventually rust and seize. No sealant is necessary on the thermostat housing gasket unless your housing is really pitted from corrosion. No sealant inside.

Don't use WD40 on the new hoses to lubricate the ends to make installation easier. It degrades the rubber. Use spit or if that doesn't quite do it, water soluble hand cream (very thin).

I never flushed my 2F in 30 years (just drained it).

I recommend using the Toyota spring clamps on the big radiator hoses and their double hoop clamps for the rest. Though regular worm screw hose clamps work ok (stainless steel).

Personally I don't recommend removing the plate behind the timing gear to replace that gasket. Too much risky work. Let it drip.

You're safe if you follow the FSM word for word and not improvise or attempt to out think it. It is the cruiser BIBLE.

30 years ago there was no internet and no advice available. All we had was the FSM and a prayer. It has served us well. When in doubt, follow it exactly and you'll be fine.
 

Gretsch

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OK understood on the use of FSM. I'll follow that as close as possible. I only got the double hoop clamps for the bigger hoses, but I'll see if I can source some worm-gear type for those instead.

Use antiseize grease on every bolt you remove and use again. Be careful torquing them if greased because the torque specs are for dry clean (new) bolts.

I failed to mention I have all new bolts for this project. I am sure old would be fine, but seems like the heat some of these bolts are exposed to made me leary of re-using them. I just got all new. Praying none of these break when trying to get them out. So does this mean that if I am replacing all with new, anti-seize is not needed other than the T-stat housing bolts as you mentioned or does it mean go ahead and use anti-seize on any bolt replaced new or old?

Personally I don't recommend removing the plate behind the timing gear to replace that gasket. Too much risky work. Let it drip.

Luckily I cannot see that it is currently dripping. It was just another one of those while your in there deals. If its not typically an issue, I'll leave it for now. If I get in there and have to address this for some reason, I will most like seek professional help. Not laziness, just know my limits.

Thanks very much for the reply here @OSS. I respect your posts very much and appreciate you taking the time help me out. Always a great source of information.
 

OSS

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My thoughts-
If a bolt is removed and it isn't rusty and the female threads aren't rusty, anti-seize grease isn't really necessary if a new bolt is going back in there. The plating on the new bolt will protect both mating threads.

If the bolt is removed and has rust on the threads, the female threads will have rust too. Always use anti-seize grease on that fitting even with a new bolt to protect the female threads.

Toyota doesn't use anti-seize grease on anything. But they use newly machined parts and freshly plated fasteners.

Anti-seize grease is a band aid for compromised threads that have already started to rust. It prevents them from rusting more in the future.
 

John McVicker

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Agree. I use Anti Seize on every single bolt (with very few exceptions i.e. Oil pan etc) I have removed from my Cruisers...every single time. I'm still using the original T-stat housing that was installed in Japan on the '75 40 that I bought new. I also use Anti Seize on hoses to help them slide into place.
 

Gretsch

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X2 on any petroleum based product on rubber. I use coolant to lube the hoses

OK I'll do that then.

See this particular topic is a perfect example of why I wanted to reach out to the forum on this. I read the WD40 tip somewhere and thought it(pardon the pun here) 'slick'. Thanks to the experience on this forum, seems its not such a good idea. Exactly the sort of info I was after with this. Thanks all for the replies.
 
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Use antiseize grease on every bolt you remove and use again. Be careful torquing them if greased because the torque specs are for dry clean (new) bolts.

Don't use WD40 on the new hoses to lubricate the ends to make installation easier. It degrades the rubber. Use spit or if that doesn't quite do it, water soluble hand cream (very thin).

Following up on this advice on bolt torque and acceptable lubricant for rubber parts:

OSS is correct that recommended bolt torque values are for clean and dry threads. If the threads are lubed using recommended torque can result in a broken bolt. Use anti seize where required but be careful with the torque.

I had a career in rubber technology. There are many types of rubber and at the general level they are classified as either:

(1) Oil resistant. These are parts designed to be in direct contact with oil and fuel. Using petroleum based products such as engine oil as an assemble lube is fine for these components.

(2) Non-oil resistant. Chances are that rubber designed for cooling system use (or for window and door seals and tires) are a non-oil resistant rubber type. The use of any petroleum based oil or grease in contact with this type will chemically degrade the rubber. As OSS points out there are alternatives. To his list I'll add soapy water. Plain water does not work because it beads up on the rubber, adding a little soap breaks the surface tension and allows it to wet the surface.
 

Gretsch

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OSS is correct that recommended bolt torque values are for clean and dry threads. If the threads are lubed using recommended torque can result in a broken bolt. Use anti seize where required but be careful with the torque.

So when you say "be careful with the torque", is that to mean go less torque than stated? So with stated 20Ft/lbs. and use of anti-seize maybe use 15Ft./lbs. instead?

To his list I'll add soapy water. Plain water does not work because it beads up on the rubber, adding a little soap breaks the surface tension and allows it to wet the surface.

I had read this a few years back as a solution for getting hoses on. On a cooling system I always wondered what happened to the soap as it circulates. Using this method, you would want to try and keep the soap out of the system as much as possible I would guess, but it would be un-avoidable to keep it out of the system entirely. Maybe it does not matter as its such a small amount as to not cause any ill-effects.

Again thanks for the tips and clarification here.
 
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I worked for Caterpillar and they were bolt torque fanatics. My understanding is that friction is a component of torque, lube reduces friction and so the bolt feels more actual stress when torqued to spec.

It may be out there but I have never seen info on safe recommended torque for lubricated bolts.

Hard to imagine a little dish soap would cause cooling system trouble. No reason not to use radiator coolant as a lube - it is slippery.

You probably know this but it's best to use distilled water in a cooling system. Some tap water contains a lot of minerals.

If you do your own tire work, mounting and dismounting them from the wheel keep in mind if the tire beads are not lubed they are likely to be damaged. Soapy water works great for this.
 
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You're safe if you follow the FSM word for word and not improvise or attempt to out think it. It is the cruiser BIBLE.

30 years ago there was no internet and no advice available. All we had was the FSM and a prayer. It has served us well. When in doubt, follow it exactly and you'll be fine.

This, exactly this, the internet has made us lazy to read books. Having taken some automotive classes from an old school tech helps to (or getting certified like ages ago).

Only thing I can add is when refilling take your time, I squeeze the upper rad hose to help with removing the air bubbles.

I just did mine and once back together, no leaks and it runs cool and clean, and aside from some experience I have, I followed the manual.
 

DickM

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Don't use WD40 on the new hoses to lubricate the ends to make installation easier. It degrades the rubber. Use spit or if that doesn't quite do it, water soluble hand cream (very thin).

There is a silicon based grease product called Syl-Glyde that comes in a smallish tube and works great for hose installation and a lot of other rubber installation needs. I got a tube at the local Napa store. It is very handy to have around.
 

Gretsch

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There is a silicon based grease product called Syl-Glyde that comes in a smallish tube and works great for hose installation and a lot of other rubber installation needs. I got a tube at the local Napa store. It is very handy to have around.

Nice @DickM. I'll look into it. Thanks.
 

Gretsch

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So I spent the better part of today gathering additional odds and ends I need for this project instead of actually doing any work on it. The only 46MM socket I could find for the crank pulley nut is a 12 point socket. Any issues with using 12 point instead of 6 for getting this nut off? Little worried about rounding the sides of the nut using 12 point. I know that some folks use the starter bump method to break the nut loose. I think I'll opt for the breaker bar/pipe method myself.

The FSM I have access to shows this for torque on the pulley nut:

Bolttorque.jpg


I read that as between 116 and 144 ft-lb. This is from the 1980 2F Engine Repair FSM. Sound right? Thanks all for the replies.
 

OSS

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Most likely the only way you're going to be able to loosen that big crank nut is with a 3/4" pneumatic impact wrench (Husky at Home Depot) or use the starter-swing technique. The radiator should come out to do this job. Get a 6 point 46mm impact socket. They're black in color. The 12 point will likely cause you misery.
 

Gretsch

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OK. Yeah I figured the 6 point was the way to go here. I'll have to source one from Internet.

The impact wrenches I have are all 1/2 however so was looking at a 1/2 drive socket. You think 3/4 is required here or could 1/2 get it? The torque wrench I have access to is 1/2 so was going to get an impact socket with 1/2 drive so I can get this thing back on with that wrench. But if 3/4 is required to break it loose then I might have to re-think the starter bump as an option. Would be cheaper than buying a 3/4 inch impact gun. Thoughts?
 

Gretsch

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So after running around day two looking for stuff I need for this I swung into Northern Tool, and despite what their website says, they had a 46MM six point in as you said 3/4 drive.

IMG_3885.jpg

IMG_3884.jpg


Oddly enough the equivalent SAE version was 4 dollars more. Who knew. I also found a place that will rent me a 3/4 drive impact gun for $20 a day so may see about using that. I have an adapter 3/4 - 1/2. I will try my luck on using my 1/2 breaker. If this nut kills it then will invest in a 3/4 breaker and see where it goes. Sounds like I am in for it here though. I'll assume that getting it back on is equally fun. Thanks for the replies.
 

Gretsch

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So I was able to get pretty far yesterday. The cruiser gods were watching out for me. Got radiator out, thermostat housing off the block and out, alternator bracket to block mounting bolts broke free (painting this piece), got the fan shroud cleaned up. I was taking my time and tagging all fasteners I took off. Was trying to get the radiator out before the radiator shop closed at 1. I got it out with only 30 minutes to spare but was still not enough to make it over there in time.

Thanks to @NeverGiveUpYota. I read a post in another older thread she posted talking about removing the battery tray to get the radiator out. I was going to work around it but when I got in there realized she was dead on. Took like 5 minutes to get it out of there and saved me a ton of time with the access it provides out of the truck. @OSS mentioned in same thread to just generally get stuff out of the way when doing this. Right as usual. Seems like it will slow you down to remove things but you will spend way more time working around stuff than it takes to remove things to get better access. I tried working around the A/C condenser to get the radiator mounting nuts off. Someone in another thread mentioned you could put a screwdriver down to jam the bolts and keep them from spinning while you remove the mounting nuts. I tried it but it did not work for me. So took front grill off and removed the A/C condenser mounting bolts, including the bolts on the far left side holding the hoses. When you do this, the condenser sort of tilts down on the right side. Because of this tilt, you can easily access the radiator bolt heads on the right side. The tilt however also sort of lifts the hose side of the condenser up and out of the way of the left side radiator mounting bolt heads so you have access to those as well. Saw where some shops were saying you have to get the A/C system torn down to do this. I am here to tell you its not true. Again seems like you waste a lot of time removing all that stuff but I wasted more trying to screw with the radiator mounting bolts with the condenser in place than I would have if I just got to work removing the condenser.

Biggest win of the day however was I was able to get the crank pulley nut off. I used my 1/2 impact driver with 3/4 adapter and I was able to get the nut off in about 60 seconds. Been soaking it in PB Blaster for several days. I figured it would not work but I was waiting for some parts I painted to dry and had a second so I hit it with the impact. Came right off. I was shocked but will take it. Thanks all for the help. I am on my way here.
 
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