Come on...convert a Rover guy

[Jukelemon]

I really do not understand why reliability and robustness of driveline keeps getting put aside. Fact: I can make a jeep, in non stock form, turn circles on any LC. But that is with modifcation to the stock platform. The question was make a man change his mind about a brand. Well, if you are going to modify, then why be interested in the brand? Who cares about this swap and this lock and these size tires? We are talking stock to stock performance and reliabilty AND longevity. Let's keep the apples to apples here.

Not trying to piss anyone off but it is just ludicrous to compare brands and then list modifications in the same statement. LR's sell becasue they have a mystique and are capable when they are running. Toyota's sell because they are always capable and rest on utility rather than mystique. How many discos have to break down in 50k miles until people realize that the mfg. process was weak/is weak and will be weakened by being owned by Ford. Is that not enough?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I really do not understand why reliability and robustness of driveline keeps getting put aside. Fact: I can make a jeep, in non stock form, turn circles on any LC. But that is with modifcation to the stock platform. The question was make a man change his mind about a brand. Well, if you are going to modify, then why be interested in the brand? Who cares about this swap and this lock and these size tires? We are talking stock to stock performance and reliabilty AND longevity. Let's keep the apples to apples here.

Not trying to piss anyone off but it is just ludicrous to compare brands and then list modifications in the same statement. LR's sell becasue they have a mystique and are capable when they are running. Toyota's sell because they are always capable and rest on utility rather than mystique. How many discos have to break down in 50k miles until people realize that the mfg. process was weak/is weak and will be weakened by being owned by Ford. Is that not enough?

Stock to stock? I'd bet a 3-way comparison between a 100, a Discovery and an LR3 would result in a VERY CLOSE race. I think it would come down to the obstacles and particular trail/event. The Rover's are amazing in stock form and the LR3 is no exception.

 

[Jukelemon]

Reread my post. That was not the point I am making.

For the matter of comparing a perfectly good vehicle with any other good vehicle, then you might as well throw in a Rubicon, a Patrol, Mitsubishi and a Isuzo. ALL have models that would do just as well stock to stock when compared to a LC.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Reread my post. That was not the point I am making.

For the matter of comparing a perfectly good vehicle with any other good vehicle, then you might as well throw in a Rubicon, a Patrol, Mitsubishi and a Isuzo. ALL have models that would do just as well stock to stock when compared to a LC.

EEEOOOOWWWW! Man, did I misread your comment. Lights on, but nobody's.......

Yes, you're right on. When I bought my first Cruiser, the 100, I knew nothing about 4-wheeling, lifts, trail ratings, etc. I knew I wanted a Cruiser based on ONE thing I knew about them.......they are the best built and most reliable rigs on the planet. You're point is well taken.

 

[Arya Ebrahimi]

I think the perfect vehicle would be a Disco body on an 80-series suspension

Hmmm....

 

[Jukelemon]

Thanks for the reread.

Ironic.....during our posts a 95 Defender is now on our For Sale section. Shotts, it is AZ too. Know him?

I would be curious to know how Ford is managing LR. My guess is that in 5 years when Toyota becomes #3, that Ford, Chrysler and GM sell off a lot of their secondary lines e.g. jaguar, volvo and LR. I do not think it as any coincidence that LR has been tossed around so many times in terms of ownership. BMW knew what it was costing them in service related failures. How long will it take Ford to figure that out?

 

[ryanjl]

Reread my post. That was not the point I am making.

For the matter of comparing a perfectly good vehicle with any other good vehicle, then you might as well throw in a Rubicon, a Patrol, Mitsubishi and a Isuzo. ALL have models that would do just as well stock to stock when compared to a LC.

The problem is that the Disco vs. LC comparison isn't a stock vs. stock one a 100% of the time.

You can compare stock capabilities, but what about the modification capabilities?

Lift the 100 2.5" and add 35" rubber, and get a ton better performance. You can add 35" rubber to the Disco and get identical performance for the most part, but it takes a ton more work to do so (i.e. suspension modifications, axle upgrades, gear upgrades, etc.)

The same goes for LC vs. Jeep, vs. Isuzu, etc.

While they may all be close to identical stock vs. stock, the LC is so overbuilt you can get to modified vs. modified far easier than with other makes.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

The problem is that the Disco vs. LC comparison isn't a stock vs. stock one a 100% of the time.

You can compare stock capabilities, but what about the modification capabilities?

Lift the 100 2.5" and add 35" rubber, and get a ton better performance. You can add 35" rubber to the Disco and get identical performance for the most part, but it takes a ton more work to do so (i.e. suspension modifications, axle upgrades, gear upgrades, etc.)

The same goes for LC vs. Jeep, vs. Isuzu, etc.

While they may all be close to identical stock vs. stock, the LC is so overbuilt you can get to modified vs. modified far easier than with other makes.

WOW, well put!

 

[expeditionswest]

For the matter of comparing a perfectly good vehicle with any other good vehicle, then you might as well throw in a Rubicon, a Patrol, Mitsubishi and a Isuzo. ALL have models that would do just as well stock to stock when compared to a LC.

Bielecki posted this topic in an attempt to compare a Discovery II with a TLC 100. I did not see anything mentioned about Mitsubishi, etc.

It is quite possible to compare all of these models in stock form and determin a winner based upon empirical data, and trail performance with skilled drivers. There would be no question in my mind that a stock 100 with traction control would outperform an Isuzu Trooper in capability. The Land Cruiser has additional equipment from the factory allows it to maintain better traction. Magazines of all sorts have declared winners of these types of comparisons.

Remember, a vehicle needs to be evaluated on a individuals specific needs, taking into consideration reliability, durability, capability and capacity. There is no question a Jeep Rubicon in stock form has superior capability, but it takes a distant place in reliability and capacity.

That is why we all own different vehicles, because our needs are different. We also modify our vehicles for the types of trails we enjoy.

I have built my Tacoma for extended expedition travel into Mexico, which is a very unique requirement to most. That is why I also have a Wrangler with ARB's, 33's, etc for the more challenging trails.

I have seen these discussions spin out of control because those responding loose sight of the original posters question.

For what Bielecki is looking for the TLC100 is the best choice, and I think he knows that. He has the luxury of looking beyond just capability, and is considering the long term benifits of owning a TLC. He also has a defender for the more challenging trails.

That is why I sold my Discovery and bought a Toyota. I cannot afford to have the vehicle break down 2,000 miles south of the border on a remote jungle track!

 

[Jukelemon]

I was not talking to B at that point. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[folsom50]

Juke got my interests up, so you'll have to forgive me if I seem obtuse. It's not only the very first time I've posted in the 100 section, it's also the very first time I've even been in here. But I was hoping for a little more, when you can buy a '96 LR Disco with 47k for $5.4g on Ebay buy-it-now. That mean he's wanting that, but may take less...$4,500? Please! Jeeps bring a better resale than that, he put just over 5,000 mile a year on that rig and how much was paid for it new? I think a Yugo has a better rep. than a LR.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6294&item=4516940431&rd=1

 

[folsom50]

Argggg! Highest bidder on that link right now...79fj40

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Argggg! Highest bidder on that link right now...79fj40

79FJ40 wants to trade up.

 

[folsom50]

79FJ40 wants to trade up.

Smack! It didn't hurt

 

[Tom B]

Juke got my interests up, so you'll have to forgive me if I seem obtuse. It's not only the very first time I've posted in the 100 section, it's also the very first time I've even been in here. But I was hoping for a little more, when you can buy a '96 LR Disco with 47k for $5.4g on Ebay buy-it-now. That mean he's wanting that, but may take less...$4,500? Please! Jeeps bring a better resale than that, he put just over 5,000 mile a year on that rig and how much was paid for it new? I think a Yugo has a better rep. than a LR.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6294&item=4516940431&rd=1

Yeah, but just think! If you hated it at $36k, you'll love it at $4,500. Actually, I think all that depreciation makes them quite a bargain...if you're buying them at $4-$6k. I think they'll make great budget wheelers for those that can wrench. Rebuild the top end of the engine, clean out all the sludge, take a sawsall to it and go to town. Just think about it, for the price of some LC bumpers and sliders you could have another wheeler.

As an aside, I have owned a Disco I & II for 8 years, and neither of them have ever left me stranded. Hah! OTOH, I know of no other auto that depreciates like a Rover (excluding Defenders in the NA market).

 

[Tom B]

For what Bielecki is looking for the TLC100 is the best choice, and I think he knows that. He has the luxury of looking beyond just capability, and is considering the long term benifits of owning a TLC. He also has a defender for the more challenging trails.

That is why I sold my Discovery and bought a Toyota. I cannot afford to have the vehicle break down 2,000 miles south of the border on a remote jungle track!

Thanks Scott for your very informative, unbiased comparison. Yes, I think the TLC is a better vehicle for me and my family long term. Both my wife and I would like to do some long distance trips to Alaska as well as to Baja, etc, and the TLC will be a better vehicle for this. Also, it will still allow us to travel on most of the trails in CO and UT (except from the crazy rockcrawler trails).

Your site looks great by the way; what areas in South America have you travelled to?

 

[firetruck41]

I would be curious to know how Ford is managing LR. My guess is that in 5 years when Toyota becomes #3, that Ford, Chrysler and GM sell off a lot of their secondary lines e.g. jaguar, volvo and LR. I do not think it as any coincidence that LR has been tossed around so many times in terms of ownership. BMW knew what it was costing them in service related failures. How long will it take Ford to figure that out?

A little OT, but I just read in "Truck Trend" magazine (or somthin' like that), the new Defender is getting a robust new drive train. The new engine will be..... the 3.0 V6 from the Taurus. Can this really be an improvement!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

A little OT, but I just read in "Truck Trend" magazine (or somthin' like that), the new Defender is getting a robust new drive train. The new engine will be..... the 3.0 V6 from the Taurus. Can this really be an improvement!

It's the Ford way. They already took the awesome BMW engine out of the RR. They dropped in a JAG motor but didn't lower the MSRP. Pigs!

 

[Aseif007]

This is my first time posting on the 100 list so lets see if I can;t stir things up! I hear about the overbuilt 100 series drive trane, when in fact it shares the drivetrane with the V8 4-Runner. That is not the case with the earlier TLCs. My FJ-62 and my FZJ-80 have 9" rear R & Ps, but the 80 has the smaller front R& P. I was under the impression that the R & Ps are the same in the 4-runner and the UZJ?? The tranny in the FJ-80 is beefier than the tranny in the FZJ-80 and 100 series (4-runner trannies). The 100 series has the 8" R & P front and rear ( I think, correct me if I am wrong please) I also think the axles shafts are smaller in diameter, that probably has to do with the fact that they are FFs thought. This doesn;t mean that they are weaker, just drawing attention to the fact that over the years they have not been as robust as previously designed. Bigger doesn;t mean stronger though. I love my FZJ-80, FJ-62, FJ-55, and my Tacoma but I am not that interested in the 100 series. IMHO the last real TLC sold in the states was the 97' FZJ-80. But newer is better, and (I have to admit) in stock form the UZJ will probably kill all my other vehicles off road. Do they still make the 103 or 105 series TLCs anywhere?

I also would choose the stock TLC over the stock RR any day.(a little biased, but with good reason) The fact that my X-girlfriend's parents had to take their 4 month old 1994 4.6 HSE to the dealer because the passenger door was falling off scared me away from those vehicles. (and that was just the beginning of their problems, they ended up selling it 2 years later for like %40 of what they sold it for with less than 50K on it) And the fact that they may contain Ford or BMW parts and engineering should scare anyone away. All cars have thier lemons, it just happens that a higher percentage of RR are lemons than TLCs. And yes, there are lemon TLCs, few but they do exist. Both vehicles are capable off road and I think getting through trails has more to do with the driver's ability most of the time. And my FJ-62 had 300K on one motor, my FZJ-80 had gone 120K with no problems, and my Tacoma is at 70K with no problems. That is what you want from a vehicle, and what you get from most Toyotas. JUST MY $0.02 100 series guys.

 

[Jukelemon]

100's have 9.5 r and p's and, in the case of Toyota, bigger i.e. more substantial material, always means better.