Come on...convert a Rover guy

[ShottsUZJ100]

This is my first time posting on the 100 list so lets see if I can;t stir things up! I hear about the overbuilt 100 series drive trane, when in fact it shares the drivetrane with the V8 4-Runner. That is not the case with the earlier TLCs. My FJ-62 and my FZJ-80 have 9" rear R & Ps, but the 80 has the smaller front R& P. I was under the impression that the R & Ps are the same in the 4-runner and the UZJ?? The tranny in the FJ-80 is beefier than the tranny in the FZJ-80 and 100 series (4-runner trannies). The 100 series has the 8" R & P front and rear ( I think, correct me if I am wrong please) I also think the axles shafts are smaller in diameter, that probably has to do with the fact that they are FFs thought. This doesn;t mean that they are weaker, just drawing attention to the fact that over the years they have not been as robust as previously designed. Bigger doesn;t mean stronger though. I love my FZJ-80, FJ-62, FJ-55, and my Tacoma but I am not that interested in the 100 series. IMHO the last real TLC sold in the states was the 97' FZJ-80. But newer is better, and (I have to admit) in stock form the UZJ will probably kill all my other vehicles off road. Do they still make the 103 or 105 series TLCs anywhere?

I also would choose the stock TLC over the stock RR any day.(a little biased, but with good reason) The fact that my X-girlfriend's parents had to take their 4 month old 1994 4.6 HSE to the dealer because the passenger door was falling off scared me away from those vehicles. (and that was just the beginning of their problems, they ended up selling it 2 years later for like %40 of what they sold it for with less than 50K on it) And the fact that they may contain Ford or BMW parts and engineering should scare anyone away. All cars have thier lemons, it just happens that a higher percentage of RR are lemons than TLCs. And yes, there are lemon TLCs, few but they do exist. Both vehicles are capable off road and I think getting through trails has more to do with the driver's ability most of the time. And my FJ-62 had 300K on one motor, my FZJ-80 had gone 120K with no problems, and my Tacoma is at 70K with no problems. That is what you want from a vehicle, and what you get from most Toyotas. JUST MY $0.02 100 series guys.

Not to be rude.....but you have a lot of research to do about your top paragraph statements. While I won't point out the particulars (because I believe you should research or search on this site) I can make the following accurate statements:

1. While Toyota has widened the sharing of the V8 motor (a smart move) throughout it's product line, the underpinnings of a 4Runner and a 100 have nothing in common. Yes, thank god they give the 100's V8 transmission to the other V8 equipped rigs.
2. Previous to the 5-sp tranny, the 100 shared the same tranny with the 80.
3. Driveline-wise, almost everything was steengthened in the 100 over the 80 to accomodate the added power and size. Even the front axles shafts of the CV joints are larger in diameter and probably stronger than in an 80 live axle.
4. Structuraly, the 100 is over 50% stronger than the 80. This comes from new frame technology and the use of 9 vs 5 crossmembers. My 100 makes my 80 feel like a crap-box because of these improvements.
5. The 100 has a much larger and thicker rear R&P (compared to an 80) to accomodate the added power of the V8.
6. The 100-series is without a doubt the finest overall Land Cruiser ever built. You drive, off-road, severe off-road, ride-in, whatever in a 100 then get into your 97 FZJ80 and you'll see the light.

I'm glad you like your old Cruisers, but obviously you need to get you facts straight n order to decide objectively. And gee, I'm sorry you're not that interested in owning a 100. I'd sell you mine right now for $5000.

 

[Aseif007]

I wouldn't sell you a ride my FJ-62 for that low!!!....J/K.....You know, if you read my post you would see that I asked for correction on some of my statement. When I say "( I think, correct me if I am wrong please)" means exactly that. I even go as far as to say that the UZJ would beat all my vehicles off road. And I even stated that newer was better. Since I have no desire for the 100 I don;t know every detail about them, and I was going by what I thought was the case. Apparently I was wrong. I feel that the $18,000 I spent on my 1988 FJ-62 from the dealer will go further that the $65,000+ you paid for your 100 series.

An FJ-80 drivetrane could handle the Toyota V-8 power no problem, especially since the increase in power is minimal compared to the 4.5L, ~20 more HP and ~40 lbs more torque. ( although the UZJ has better response and high end). And that is an FJ-80 mind you, 3FE and A44X. It is funny that the Tacoma V-6 and 4-runner V-8 have more HP, but only the 4-runner has the same torque. Just curious, how high can the front end of the 100 series be lifted? Does Toyota offer lockers front or rear, for the current model? (yes I know, traction control ) What is the advatage that torsion bars give over coils or even leafs in the front? Why did they change the rear to a semi floater? What happened to the TRD S/C for that motor? Why did they change from 6 lug to 5 lug? Just some questions, I am only asking so I can undersatnd the differences, and advantages/disadvantages between the 80s and 100s since I don;t know much about them.

I don;t dislike these TLCs, I'm just real partial to the Landcruisers before the 100 series. AGAIN, MY $0.02. I know that the UZJ-100 is a nice car, but my FJ-62 is a nice old truck.

 

[Pitbull]

I also think that lug nut thing is weird. The 4th generation 4runner used 6 lug nuts on 17" wheels with 265/65/17 tires. Why did they go with 5 lug nuts on the LC/LX? Toyota knows what they are doing and builts great vehicles but it would be nice if you could find out why they do the things they do???

 

[hank14]

why they do the things they do???[/QUOTE]

To make a large profit? To earn the reputation as the most reliable vehicle on the road? (I know you meant engineering-wise, BTW) JK.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

An FJ-80 drivetrane could handle the Toyota V-8 power no problem

**Toyota doesn't think so.**

especially since the increase in power is minimal compared to the 4.5L, ~20 more HP and ~40 lbs more torque. ( although the UZJ has better response and high end). And that is an FJ-80 mind you, 3FE and A44X.

**You have no idea how much more powerful the actually 100 is. A blown 80 eats dust to my 100 with tweaked gearing due to my 35-inch tires. On the highway, up grades, my buddy in his 325HP Escalade can't pass me, and again, I'm de-geared from the tire change. He's got a 100 more horsepower. Don't get caught up in numbers.**

It is funny that the Tacoma V-6 and 4-runner V-8 have more HP, but only the 4-runner has the same torque.

**Thank god a truck like the 100 isn't powered by a variable valve timed head.**

Just curious, how high can the front end of the 100 series be lifted?

**Search**

Does Toyota offer lockers front or rear, for the current model? (yes I know, traction control )

**Search**

What is the advatage that torsion bars give over coils or even leafs in the front?

**Who knows, though they sure ride awesome in the 100.**

Why did they change the rear to a semi floater?

**Pros and cons to both types.**

What happened to the TRD S/C for that motor?

**Who knows and who cares? With my added weight, large tires, the thing still drives like a sports truck and climbs hills easier than other Cruisers WITH superchargers.**

Why did they change from 6 lug to 5 lug?

**Who cares?**

Just some questions, I am only asking so I can undersatnd the differences, and advantages/disadvantages between the 80s and 100s since I don't know much about them.

**An 80 has ONE advantage over a 100. It is smaller, and a bit easier to modify and therefore has a small edge over a 100 on REALLY BAD or REALLY TIGHT trails.
In EVERY other comparison the 100 is a huge improvement over the previous model...and it should be. They learned something during the 7 year gap. They applied it. Recently they found a way to better flex on the GX470. That's technology. Be glad of it, and hope you see it trickle down like the V8 motor and the matching tranny.**

I read your posting like you think the 100 was designed and made with 4Runner stuff. That's dead wrong. The hand-me-downs go the other way. Thanks god for Lexus, then the 100, and now even lower-end rigs see some of the same parts. Woohoo for those who can't afford or don't want to spend the dough on the expensive stuff. They can get some of it in the cheaper stuff.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I also think that lug nut thing is weird. The 4th generation 4runner used 6 lug nuts on 17" wheels with 265/65/17 tires. Why did they go with 5 lug nuts on the LC/LX? Toyota knows what they are doing and builts great vehicles but it would be nice if you could find out why they do the things they do???

No, keep it secret. Otherwise, Ford, Chevy and Hummer might learn something.

 

[r3run33]

hey im not to informed on disco's but i seen a range rovee over the summer brand new which was in a accident and hit a utility pole the hit was a 1 in a million but i hit right between the front passenger and right 2nd row door and roof line! the hole body collaped killing the driver and his daughter. i know it was a wierd spot for a hit but i would expect the body to hold up better for a 2004 model especialyy a range rover (which is actually stupid that i say that just because a vehicle cost 90k means it should hold up better ina accident?)

 

[Augie]

Why did they go with 5 lug nuts on the LC/LX?

Because they need to fit bigger CV joint/Birfield. You could not fit 100 series CV joint in 6x5.5" hub. They need to space the lug nut at 6"/150 mm to fit the much bigger CV.

The front diff are only 8" unit contrary to 60 series 9.5" but they are a lot stiffer. If you break a diff before you will notice that most problem are created by flex housing although size sure does could help to gain strength.

 

[Pitbull]

Because they need to fit bigger CV joint/Birfield. You could not fit 100 series CV joint in 6x5.5" hub. They need to space the lug nut at 6"/150 mm to fit the much bigger CV.

The front diff are only 8" unit contrary to 60 series 9.5" but they are a lot stiffer. If you break a diff before you will notice that most problem are created by flex housing although size sure does could help to gain strength.

Can you explain this a little better? I've owned several 1 ton trucks that used more than 5 lug nuts. Based on your logic they would only use 4 lug nuts and Semi's would use 3 lug nuts. I don't understand your logic?

 

[Tom B]

Can you explain this a little better? I've owned several 1 ton trucks that used more than 5 lug nuts. Based on your logic they would only use 4 lug nuts and Semi's would use 3 lug nuts. I don't understand your logic?

Probably has something to do with wheel offset and hub size. There, that's enough hand waving factors to obfuscate the discussion.

 

[reffug]

I'd sell you mine right now for $5000.

I can have plane tickets purchased today and be in AZ tomorrow.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I can have plane tickets purchased today and be in AZ tomorrow.

Sorry REFFUG. I sold my 100 last night to a lady here in Tucson. I got $6000 for it (in trade) and am now looking for another Cruiser.

 

[Aseif007]

ShottsUZJ100,

I don't mean to be rude.......... but since the 100 series has smaller sized R & Ps than a FJ-62, the same tranny as the V-8 4-runner, do you now agree that they are not built as large as they used to be? This does not mean they are not strong. You say the 100s are stronger; well they need to be because they are larger in stature, and heavier than before. And when you answer my questions like this how can I take you seriously:

<<Why did they change from 6 lug to 5 lug? **Who cares?** >>

I would care; normally 6 lug is stronger than 5 lug. I'm sure that the hubs are strong though.


<<What happened to the TRD S/C for that motor? **Who knows and who cares? With my added weight, large tires, the thing still drives like a sports truck and climbs hills easier than other Cruisers WITH superchargers.**>>

I would care, I'm not too familiar with this but wasn’t there a SC for the 100 series and then TRD pulled it off the market? That may have been because the newer one is coming out, or that the motor cannot handle it. This I do not know.


<<An FJ-80 drivetrane could handle the Toyota V-8 power no problem **Toyota doesn't think so.**>>

Are you a Toyota engineer? If you are then I will shut my hole. But since you're not, then where do you get your basis for that statement???? How can an FJ-62 with the A440F handle a SBC that has more torque than the I-force?? (I have seen it first hand) This setup isn’t too unreasonable, and the A440F is a heavy-duty bus tranny. Weren't the trannies after the A44XF a little lighter duty......so they would be smoother????


**You have no idea how much more powerful the actually 100 is. A blown 80 eats dust to my 100 with tweaked gearing due to my 35-inch tires. On the highway, up grades, my buddy in his 325HP Escalade can't pass me, and again, I'm de-geared from the tire change. He's got a 100 more horsepower. Don't get caught up in numbers.**

So you are re-geared with 35s, or you have tweaked gearing due to 35s? So you are not stock or you are, and you are comparing yourself to a stock Escalade??? I wouldn’t even mention the word Escalade in the same breath as Toyota Land cruiser and you are comparing yourself to it? It is not even the same CLASS as the TLC in my opinion.

Escalade: 345 hp @ 5,200 rpm / 380 lb-ft @ 4,000 rpm
UZJ-100: 235 hp @ 4800 rpm / 320 lb.-ft. @ 3400 rpm

And the Escalade is slightly heavier, revs higher, and has more torque. But DON'T GET CAUGHT UP IN NUMBERS........OK.

I actually was driven around this weekend by my old roommate who had just bought a 99' UZJ-100, on my recommendation I might add. It was very smooth, and comfortable. Not very powerful, but powerful compared to my FJ-62. I am not sure where this insane power you speak of was, but I'm sure it must be your larger tires??? And I would take the Turbo charged FZJ-80 any day. Or the HDJ-80, or even the 105 series TLC (the 100 series with the live axle up front) Don’t you know that the US only gets the loaded soccer mom model cruisers, and the other countries get the cruisers set up for off-road?

I feel that Toyota wanted to make their TLCs much smoother like the G wagons and newer Land Rovers so that is why they started designing more for luxury, not off-road ability only. Since they are priced so high they need to be comparable in comfort to its competition. It looks like they have a good balance of both though. And this helps the drivers (traction control, hill descent, rack and pinion steering (FJ-80 and up)) that are not very capable off road get through the obstacles where they may not have been able to before, based on their ability not their vehicle's ability. All you need to do now is give it a little gas and the suspension and computers do the rest. Not too challenging, but it fulfills its purpose I guess, getting you there.

I do also think that the value of your UZJ-100 is based on the history and performance of the REAL cruisers before it, the 40s, 55s, & 60s. I still like the 100s though don’t get me wrong, I just don’t have a wife to buy one for yet.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

ShottsUZJ100,

I don't mean to be rude.......... but since the 100 series has smaller sized R & Ps than a FJ-62, the same tranny as the V-8 4-runner, do you now agree that they are not built as large as they used to be? This does not mean they are not strong. You say the 100s are stronger; well they need to be because they are larger in stature, and heavier than before. And when you answer my questions like this how can I take you seriously:

<<Why did they change from 6 lug to 5 lug? **Who cares?** >>

I would care; normally 6 lug is stronger than 5 lug. I'm sure that the hubs are strong though.


<<What happened to the TRD S/C for that motor? **Who knows and who cares? With my added weight, large tires, the thing still drives like a sports truck and climbs hills easier than other Cruisers WITH superchargers.**>>

I would care, I'm not too familiar with this but wasn’t there a SC for the 100 series and then TRD pulled it off the market? That may have been because the newer one is coming out, or that the motor cannot handle it. This I do not know.


<<An FJ-80 drivetrane could handle the Toyota V-8 power no problem **Toyota doesn't think so.**>>

Are you a Toyota engineer? If you are then I will shut my hole. But since you're not, then where do you get your basis for that statement???? How can an FJ-62 with the A440F handle a SBC that has more torque than the I-force?? (I have seen it first hand) This setup isn’t too unreasonable, and the A440F is a heavy-duty bus tranny. Weren't the trannies after the A44XF a little lighter duty......so they would be smoother????


**You have no idea how much more powerful the actually 100 is. A blown 80 eats dust to my 100 with tweaked gearing due to my 35-inch tires. On the highway, up grades, my buddy in his 325HP Escalade can't pass me, and again, I'm de-geared from the tire change. He's got a 100 more horsepower. Don't get caught up in numbers.**

So you are re-geared with 35s, or you have tweaked gearing due to 35s? So you are not stock or you are, and you are comparing yourself to a stock Escalade??? I wouldn’t even mention the word Escalade in the same breath as Toyota Land cruiser and you are comparing yourself to it? It is not even the same CLASS as the TLC in my opinion.

Escalade: 345 hp @ 5,200 rpm / 380 lb-ft @ 4,000 rpm
UZJ-100: 235 hp @ 4800 rpm / 320 lb.-ft. @ 3400 rpm

And the Escalade is slightly heavier, revs higher, and has more torque. But DON'T GET CAUGHT UP IN NUMBERS........OK.

I actually was driven around this weekend by my old roommate who had just bought a 99' UZJ-100, on my recommendation I might add. It was very smooth, and comfortable. Not very powerful, but powerful compared to my FJ-62. I am not sure where this insane power you speak of was, but I'm sure it must be your larger tires??? And I would take the Turbo charged FZJ-80 any day. Or the HDJ-80, or even the 105 series TLC (the 100 series with the live axle up front) Don’t you know that the US only gets the loaded soccer mom model cruisers, and the other countries get the cruisers set up for off-road?

I feel that Toyota wanted to make their TLCs much smoother like the G wagons and newer Land Rovers so that is why they started designing more for luxury, not off-road ability only. Since they are priced so high they need to be comparable in comfort to its competition. It looks like they have a good balance of both though. And this helps the drivers (traction control, hill descent, rack and pinion steering (FJ-80 and up)) that are not very capable off road get through the obstacles where they may not have been able to before, based on their ability not their vehicle's ability. All you need to do now is give it a little gas and the suspension and computers do the rest. Not too challenging, but it fulfills its purpose I guess, getting you there.

I do also think that the value of your UZJ-100 is based on the history and performance of the REAL cruisers before it, the 40s, 55s, & 60s. I still like the 100s though don’t get me wrong, I just don’t have a wife to buy one for yet.

Sounds like an old Cruiser is perfect for you. What you find important (based on your experience) leads you to believe that the older Cruisers are better than the 100. Awesome. Enjoy those old ones.

Some day, you'll understand what I mean about the 100. Everybody dogged the 80 when it came out (because it was new and they didn't understand it). Now, everybody's doing the same to the 100, though more and more people are "seeing the light" every day.

 

[Augie]

Can you explain this a little better? I've owned several 1 ton trucks that used more than 5 lug nuts. Based on your logic they would only use 4 lug nuts and Semi's would use 3 lug nuts. I don't understand your logic?

Number of lug nuts does not tell the whole story. The size of the bolt and the spacing also makes up the number.

100 series bolt are 14 mm bolt compared to most 12 mm bolt. The bolt spacing are also about 10% farther apart. The bigger the diistance apart the more torque it could handle.

If you said you are familiar with 1 ton truck then you would realize the size of the bolt and the distance are further apart than normal 1/2 ton truck. Maybe a 1 ton truck could use only 4 lug nuts if they use 1" bolt and space them apart 12"

 

[DMX84]

A note on the lug nuts, I'm surprised nobody mentioned anything about the size of the nuts on a Land Rover. Just go into any LR dealer and ask them to show you their nuts. They are very proud of there nuts, and will show you them any time, in fact they are so proud of the size of their nuts, they have there’s on display! You can compare your nuts with theirs any time. And yours are smaller! ARE YOUR NUTS ON A WOODEN DISPLAY??LMAO
Dean

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

A note on the lug nuts, I'm surprised nobody mentioned anything about the size of the nuts on a Land Rover. Just go into any LR dealer and ask them to show you their nuts. They are very proud of there nuts, and will show you them any time, in fact they are so proud of the size of their nuts, they have there’s on display! You can compare your nuts with theirs any time. And yours are smaller! ARE YOUR NUTS ON A WOODEN DISPLAY??LMAO
Dean

 

[Pitbull]

Who cares how big your nuts are? What's important is the size of the shaft they are hooked too.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Who cares how big your nuts are? What's important is the size of the shaft they are hooked too.

You huys are more full of crap than I am!!

 

[e9999]

You huys are more full of crap than I am!!

obviously, you're full of cr.. errr.... wrong on this one... never mind...