Cheap Good Synthetic at Walmart

[landtoy80]

You should of drove up to Tomah WI as they sell M1 for $4.06 qt
It also is not as hot up here, but we don't have that "dry" heat so it might feel warmer 8)
Welcome to the MUD
kurt

 

[landtank]

Awgustlab,
What did they use for a filter?

 

[Jim_Chow]

Just did a quick drain & fill w/ Rotella T synthetic yesterday. That stuff kind of stinks compared to Delvac 1 (kind of like gear oil; the used D1 has a similar odor, but not as strong as that of the new Rotella). I remember there was a thread on the bobistheoilguy site regarding the odor that said it was from a bad batch, but my batch isn't one of them...lead to believe that it's just Rotella T's characteristic smell.

 

[AwgustLab]

Ya know, I am not sure what type of filter was used. I looked at the paperwork and it didn't say. I am assuming it was the brand they always use, probably Fram. Does that make a huge difference or is it minor?

 

[firetruck41]

I believe most people on the list use the Toyota 90915-20004 filter (my dealer charged me $12 last time, ouch!), it is better than the Toyota YZZB5 which is the common cheap toyota filter. I would bet the YZZB5 is similar to the cheap autoparts store filters, ie. fram. I remember seeing a website that had the YZZB5 and 20004 filters shown with cut aways, analysis of each, but have not been able to find my way back to that website

 

[erics_bruisers]

[quote author=AwgustLab link=board=2;threadid=3756;start=0#msg29150 date=1059413581]
Ya know, I am not sure what type of filter was used. I looked at the paperwork and it didn't say. I am assuming it was the brand they always use, probably Fram. Does that make a huge difference or is it minor?
[/quote]

Give this a gander --

http://139.81.82.149/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=3816;start=msg28144#msg28144

 

[Beowulf]

AwgustLab,

I'll join Kurt in welcoming you here to ih8mud; a group of Cruiser fanatics that tend to over analyze everthing to do with our trucks. Most of us do a lot of our own maintenance and letting the guys at Wally World loose with our beloved cruisers is frightening.

The Fram filters are not considered to be a quality filter by the consumers that care about those types of things. I doubt that any long term harm will be done to your engine by using a Fram for this oil change. However, you should switch to a quality (e.g. Toyota) oil filter on your next change. The M1 is generally considered to be an excellent choice for oil and the Toyota "04" oil filter is preferred by many.

I also live in Albuquerque and there are at least 4 other 80s owners on this forum so PM me if you want to chat with some local enthusiasts.

-B-

 

[Hltoppr]

Yeah, you gotta watch out for those from New Mexico!

So, the general consensus is that using full synthetic in our higher mileage engines (180K +) is acceptable?

Inquiring minds want to know... ???

-H-

 

[firetruck41]

[quote author=Hltoppr link=board=2;threadid=3756;start=0#msg29189 date=1059424524]

So, the general consensus is that using full synthetic in our higher mileage engines (180K +) is acceptable?
[/quote]
I do, w/185k

 

[Seminole]

Hltoppr - just changed mine over to M1 10w-30, I've got 212k on mine. I've got about 500miles on it and it "seems" to like it. I can't quantify any of this but it seems to run a bit smoother, cooler and about a .4-.5 mpg increase (even with a/c on). Most importantly, no leaks. My oil pressure is lower (per the gauge) but only barely and it has been 97-106f every day for a month. I'm going to run this for 3-4k and look for M1 0w-40 and change it.

 

[landtank]

Just got back from Wal-Mart with 8 quarts of 0w-40. Plan on towing my camper this weekend and I'll see how it compares to 10w-30.

 

[thorvald]

think im going to try it tomorrow, the M1 that is
what would be better for a 200,000 mile vehicle in 80-90 degree weather, 10w30 or 15w50? going to get it at walmart and they dont have the 0w40

 

[cary]

[quote author=thorvald link=board=2;threadid=3756;start=30#msg29287 date=1059453811]
think im going to try it tomorrow, the M1 that is
what would be better for a 200,000 mile vehicle in 80-90 degree weather, 10w30 or 15w50? going to get it at walmart and they dont have the 0w40
[/quote]

15w50 is to heavy. Go the 10w-30, but I would suggest looking at your local Checker/Kragen/Autozone, for 0w-40. Okay, now I will really freak you out, you could also get 6 quarts of M1 5w-30 and two quarts of 15w-50. This will give you approximately a 10w-40 oil (when mixing the weights do not average, they get thicker disproportionately to the heavier oil in the mix). I would not ever recommend mixing different oils, but the two M1 oils are from the same basestock and the additives are the same.

 

[Jim_Chow]

I saw M1 0w40 at autozone at $4.79/qt, case price. I also noticed some threads on M1 oils excessively thinning on the bobistheoilguy site. So the cost of 0w40 comes to $24 for 5 qts vs. $18 for the 10w30 from WalMart in the 5 qt jug. So the 0w40 is about 35% more expensive than the 10w30, meaning you could change 10w30 every 3.7K miles and pay the same as 0w40 every 5K miles (neglecting the filter price). The thinning problem has me a little concerned, so I'd rather just change M1 10w30 more frequently than running 0w40 longer.

 

[cary]

[quote author=Jim_Chow link=board=2;threadid=3756;start=30#msg29557 date=1059591092]
I saw M1 0w40 at autozone at $4.79/qt, case price. I also noticed some threads on M1 oils excessively thinning on the bobistheoilguy site. So the cost of 0w40 comes to $24 for 5 qts vs. $18 for the 10w30 from WalMart in the 5 qt jug. So the 0w40 is about 35% more expensive than the 10w30, meaning you could change 10w30 every 3.7K miles and pay the same as 0w40 every 5K miles (neglecting the filter price). The thinning problem has me a little concerned, so I'd rather just change M1 10w30 more frequently than running 0w40 longer.
[/quote]

Yes the 0w-40 does thin a little initially, but then thickens back up as it oxidizes. Don't forget the 10w-30 starts a very thin 9.8 Cst (almost 20 weight), while the 0w-40 starts at 14.9 Cst and thins to 12.5 Cst at worst. So the 0w-30 will still be considerably thicker (it never thins below 40 weight) Also, if you look the cases where it was thinning are cars that are very hard on engines, i.e. modified Audi 1.8 turbos. Also, the thinning does not appear to be a problem, but in the design in order to keep the oil in spec as it oxidizes back up in thickness over its 20,000-30,000 miles expected life under Mercedes Benz standard 229.5 and other extremely long change intervals.

Cary

 

[cary]

Of course now that I just posted that, there is a great post on Bobistheoilguy about M1 and its shear stability. Here it is (I did not write this but am copying it):

Let me help.

1. HT/HS
Mobil 1 0W-40 HT/HS = 3.60 is quite normal for all recent oil compositions irrespective of manufacturers and exceeds ACEA A3/B3 and MB229.1-229.5, VW 502.000/505.000 and BMW Long Life requirements (min 3.50).

Figure is not big since it have to be "Energy Conserving", from one side, and to provide required wear protection at high temperature and high shear. Less HT/HS - better fuel saving.

For many, but not all engines (it depends on engine design) 3,60 is far better then 3,20 offered by Mobil 1 10W-30 and will ensure better protection. Majority of 5W-40 synthetic and 10W-40 semi-synthetic oils have HT/HS between 3,50 and 4.10 cP.

Making approval for use of this or that oil in their cars manufactures expect that this oil will keep HT/HS > 3.50 during all prescribed oil interval. Even in Europe where this parameter is more critical then in North America due to higher speeds, it does not cause a concern.


2.Spread and shear
High spread oil can be more shear stable then low spread one and this depends on their base stock quality. Therefore, no one can make a jugment about shear stability and compare oils if he does not have these data from oil manufacturers. But the latters do not hurry to discover this value to end-users.

The value can be given either as Shear Stability, i.e. viscosity at 100 deg. C after shear or
Shear Stability Index, i.e. % viscosity loss.
Now tests are made mainly according to CEC L-14-A-93 (Bosch injector, t=100 deg.C, 30 cycles).

SSI
Best synthetic oils: 1-2 % loss
Good synthetic oils: 3-5 %
Good semi-synthetic: 9-10 %

Deducts this value from kinematic viscosity at 100 C, and you get an idea about oil shear during its use. Only an idea, since the real process is more complicated: polymer is shearing, but base stock is thickening. It does not valid if you race.

Below are SSI of some oils (may be different now):

Mobil 1 0W-40: 1.0 % API SJ ACEA A3/B3
Mobil 1 5W-30: 3.0 % API SJ
Mobil 1 5W-50: 3.0 % API SJ
Mobil 1 15W-50: 4.0 % API SJ

Motul 8100 0W-40: 1,5 % API SL ACEA A3/B3
Motul 6100 5W-40: 1.8 % API SL ACEA A3/B3
(Quite doubtful 1.8% for 5W-40 given 6100 base stock )
Motul 300V 15W-50: 4.3 % API SH

Shell Ultra 0W-40: 3.0 % API SJ ACEA A3/B3
Shell Ultra 5W-40: 5.0 % API SJ ACEA A3/B3

This is glassware test, real shear may be higher.

3. Instead of conclusion
Difficult to say why you see 0W-40 "repeatedly thin down by 2cSt on average". This is about 14 % loss. I would consider 3 options:

a) incorrect measuring
b) oil dilution
c) Mobil cost reduction on "European formula"

(But what you could expect from bear market ? API grade comes higher, but synthetic base stocks are continuously worsening.)

Believe majority of North American oils also have SSI of 3-12 %. So, narrow spread oils also shear and therefore lose kinematic and HT/HS viscosity.

Given your xW-30 oils usually have HT/HS of 2,90-3,40 (ILSAC GF-2/3 and ACEA A1/B1)and kinematic viscosity 9,5-12 cS@100 C, they cannot be used in many European cars like Audi-VW, BMW, MB, Porsch launched before 1998-2000 which require ACEA A3/B3 and own certification. If the oil is not certified by OEM, it asks to use a heavy grade for the same temperature.

This would also cause a concern for some Honda and Nissan engines.

Regards,