Can't Service Birfields ????? (1 Viewer)

[IdahoDoug]

Pitbull,

If you're a big tool guy (hammer comment you made), the this job is for you. It's nothing but a few dozen fasteners and every part involved weighs at least a pound. Nothing delicate. And there is indeed some genuine hammering needed! So, consider it with my compliments.

DougM

 

[Pitbull]

[quote author=IdahoDoug link=board=2;threadid=10391;start=msg94391#msg94391 date=1074845532]
Pitbull,

If you're a big tool guy (hammer comment you made), the this job is for you. It's nothing but a few dozen fasteners and every part involved weighs at least a pound. Nothing delicate. And there is indeed some genuine hammering needed! So, consider it with my compliments.

DougM
[/quote]

Now your talkin so I could tell the wife I was doin the right thing when I started pounding all the parts.

 

[cruiserdan]

Hey Pit,

If you are indeed retired, you may have a bit of loose time on your hands. You can do this job for less than 200 bucks worth of parts and some lubricants. And, as Doug says, you get to pound on it a bit offically .
If you choose to farm it out when the time comes, go for it. Just don't be afraid of it as a DIY, if the mood strikes you.


D-

 

[malcolm]

I'm glad we finally talking through and resolving our birfield issues.

I have one: As a result of the ball moving and transmitting torque a little ridge is worn into the birf itself and I think Robbie said that is where the noise comes from. Can't we just switch our birfs (like from starboard to port and vice versa) and get more miles out of them? I thought about this last time I was in there. Oh yea, I'd one of the guys that pumped a tube of grease into my knuckle. Hope you all have a nice weekend. Cheers

 

[cruiserdan]

It is possible to swap the stubs from side to side. All of the bits inside the joint should be retained in the original spots. You will need new snap rings as disassembly destroys the originals. (90521-34005 x2)


D-

 

[robbie]

As dan said it is ok to switch the whole birfield from one side to another, I do this in the normal axle service. But there is a thing as too much wear and this is where experence comes in. If it is real deep and wide then it may be time to have it reconditioned or replaced. It always is worth a try. I have not seen a 80 series bust using 33-35 inch tires. i ran for a long time with barking birfields, was embaresing, but liviable. Usually the inner cage goes making a mess of stuff. The after market one that are brittle usually explode and make a mess. I usually use a big pipe to take them a part (not shown in the fsm). I think it is EMT from home depot in the 1.25 inch size. I carried a inner axle in to see the right size then cut it down for the long side. Drop it in and then pick up the pipe up and drop it on the pipe, usually 3-4 wacks and the inner axle comes out with out breaking the inner axle c clip. Later robbie

 

[robbie]

Yes Pitbull, I do see where you are coming from. I was never wait until it breaks club, I do too much with my truck, and depend on it to take me and my family places and return with out any problems. I do wonder at times how luck playes in some peoples lives versus other. later robbie
I also belive in vechicle's having personalities, I think your truck is going to get pissed off some day soon and get you.

 

[Pitbull]

[quote author=robbie link=board=2;threadid=10391;start=msg94648#msg94648 date=1074896803]

I also belive in vechicle's having personalities, I think your truck is going to get pissed off some day soon and get you.

[/quote]

My LC loves me I've spent more then $2000 on it in the last year on PM including OME shocks and new hose's, belt's, wires, etc. My wife had been driving it and wanted to trade it for a New Beetle. I like my LC so much that I sold my 2002 Dodge 3500 4x4 Cummins Turbo Diesel and bought her a new 350Z so I could keep the LC. My LC knows this and has promised to not ever break down and leave me stranded.

 

[cruiserdan]

[quote author=Pitbull link=board=2;threadid=10391;start=msg94661#msg94661 date=1074898310]
My LC loves me I like my LC so much that I sold my 2002 Dodge 3500 4x4 Cummins Turbo Diesel and bought her a new 350Z so I could keep the LC.
[/quote]

Indeed a small price to pay.

Here's the flip side. About a month ago we had an original owner trade in a beautiful '94 80 with just at 100k miles on it for a, well a, ...Geeze, MR2 Spyder.........

I worry about that fellow

 

[Scamper]

Um...eh...it's not me for the record

 

[cruiserdan]

No Tom, it isn't Good thing too.


See, you kept your 80 thru yer mid-life whatever-it-is (like me 8) )

 

[Pitbull]

I've lost all control. My wife gets to decide which vehicle she needs for the day and I get to drive the other one. Sometimes I'm forced to drive the 350Z 90% of the time she never leaves the house and I drive what I want. Lifes tough I do think that the 80 series is one of the best designed and best looking vehicles ever made. It is also made to a quality standard that is not seen in new vehicles. The 350Z is just fun to drive and big bang for the buck.

 

[landtoy80]

[quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=10391;start=msg94670#msg94670 date=1074899665]
Indeed a small price to pay.

Here's the flip side. About a month ago we had an original owner trade in a beautiful '94 80 with just at 100k miles on it for a, well a, ...Geeze, MR2 Spyder.........

I worry about that fellow
[/quote]

How about a good discount on that 94 :-*

 

[Asiarider]

My wife wants a MR2 Spyder too or a Mercedes Benz Cabrio. I think I will settle for the Toyota.

Mike

 

[semlin]

Pitbull, speaking as someone who had a birf grenade at 123k within a month of a mechanic telling me they were fine, I think you are nuts. Visually you could not tell there was a problem with mine from the outside (normal minor grease around the seals and no sign of gear oil) so I guess the grease had leaked out very slowly over time. If you wait for a noise it may be too late like it was for me (broken cage) or even if it doesn't break you will have problems inside the birfield, and so that clunking won't go away after the repack unless you rebuild the birf or replace it. Plus a rebuillt birf might not work (mine didn't and I was clunking within 8 months and am about to do it again). Plus if you break the birf, as people have pointed out, you may break something else as well (for me broken index ring inside axle housing)

Just bite the bullet and do it. You are 75k overdue. Consider yourself lucky.

 

[semlin]

Also, when you say you have no noise, have you tried any tight turns in 4-lo lately? locked?

 

[kenton]

Hi Semlin,

Your breakage experience is intriguing. Something isn't computing though.

At 122k miles, (right before the mis-hap), you said the knuckles looked fine (stage 1 or maybe 2 in my parlance). Up to that point had they had regular maintenance (wheel bearing repack, knuckle grease insertion/inspection)? Did the damage happen while off-roading, or in regular road driving?

Depending on your answers to those questions, it might be that someone who DOES regular hub and knuckle maintenance (but not birf repack) and DOESN'T off-road, or only mild, incidental off-roading (as Pitbull has stated), has little to learn from your experience, and I would in that case hesitate to call him nuts.

The lessons I learn from your experience are (assuming your answer to regular hub maintenance is 'no' or unknown, and that you weren't driving down the street when it happened) is:
a) full-time 4WD, off-road operation, and anything less than lavish (=expensive money and/or time) maintenance is a bad recipe for birfields.
b) since I don't like spending gobs of money and/or time on what is supposed to be a very stout, reliable piece of hardware, maybe I should go part-time (not economically possible on 97), not wheel it , or replace with Dana 60 or 70?
c) when facing unknown or poor past maintenance, don't trust anyone else but myself to gauge the health of a vehicle I take off-road.

Regards,
Kenton

 

[Asiarider]

What a long story for nothing

Just repack the birfields and end the story. It is easy or a dealer can do it. :

If you don't want to do it: FINE

Please don't come back when you experience any problems

Thank you

Mike

 

[semlin]

Kenton,

I don't know if the inner axle had been repacked before but I doubt it. I am sure the wheel bearings never were because I did them myself and the grease was so dry it was baked looking and flaking. I bought the vehicle at 122k, drove it over 1k home and then within a month the birf went with no offroad use other than driving a graded gravel road once. It happened all of a sudden on a sharp right turn on the street with a sudden real loud popping and within 3 or 4 more turns it was obviously broken. According to the mechanic the birf went dry which I believe having seen the wheel bearings. From the outside the knuckle was dirty and there was a little grease staining under the knuckle but it did not look bad, and there were no signs of gear oil leakage. It looked no worse from the outside than Riley's knuckles did at 65k, which were pretty much fine when we repacked them.

I don't really understand your comments. Junk and Christo are the only people on this board I know of who have broken birfs on the trail. Christo did it running 38s or something on a serious rock climb trail on a heavily modified vehicle with a 6" lift or something. Junk did it while he was driving which based on his track record is all you need to know. There is no reason to panic unless you drive like junk.

Any front wheel drive vehicle at 120k is likely to start having cv problems. I don't see that it's a big deal other than the fact new Toyota OEM birfs are darn expensive so you really don't want to wait until they break before repacking. The expense of repacking every 5 or 6 years as PM is nowhere near the expense of adding portals or trying a part time 4wd conversion (which is impossible for a post 92 80 anyway unless you replace the transfer case)

 

[Pitbull]

[quote author=semlin link=board=2;threadid=10391;start=msg95272#msg95272 date=1075063870]
Pitbull, speaking as someone who had a birf grenade at 123k within a month of a mechanic telling me they were fine, I think you are nuts. Visually you could not tell there was a problem with mine from the outside (normal minor grease around the seals and no sign of gear oil) so I guess the grease had leaked out very slowly over time. If you wait for a noise it may be too late like it was for me (broken cage) or even if it doesn't break you will have problems inside the birfield, and so that clunking won't go away after the repack unless you rebuild the birf or replace it. Plus a rebuillt birf might not work (mine didn't and I was clunking within 8 months and am about to do it again). Plus if you break the birf, as people have pointed out, you may break something else as well (for me broken index ring inside axle housing)

Just bite the bullet and do it. You are 75k overdue. Consider yourself lucky.
[/quote]

Tell you what I will be the test case on this. I will drive mine without servicing the front axle, other than what Toyota suggests (bearing repacks, diff fluid change, grease the steering knuckles) and when it starts to leak or I break a birfield I will post the mileage and the cost to repair. Hopefully that will give others an idea how long you can go without servicing the front axle. It will be interesting to find out how long one will last.