Anyone ever pulled the cam bearings out of a 2f? I have a general idea how to do it, but would like some advise from someone that's experienced. What tools do I need to get the bearings out... other than the obvious ones required to get to that point.
Cam Bearing Replacement
- Thread starter captain_morgan
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Cam bearing installation tool required
A special driver with a long handle is used for installing cam bearings. Removal can be done with the same tool on a 2F after driving out the rear plug. Lisle makes one for about $140, and Northern Auto Parts carries another make. It is a real easy job to booger up, so my suggestion is have a machine shop do it - it ain't that expensive - I just did mine for $30 plus parts.
A special driver with a long handle is used for installing cam bearings. Removal can be done with the same tool on a 2F after driving out the rear plug. Lisle makes one for about $140, and Northern Auto Parts carries another make. It is a real easy job to booger up, so my suggestion is have a machine shop do it - it ain't that expensive - I just did mine for $30 plus parts.
- Thread starter
- #3
the machine shop did it for $30. I know that all of the oil hoes have to line up, but what else is there?
Machine Shop
Have the machine shop do it. Even my mechanic buddies who build engines do not install cam bearings.
JR
Have the machine shop do it. Even my mechanic buddies who build engines do not install cam bearings.
JR
How can you tell if your cam bearings need to be replaced...
Would you rather replace them now, or after you install your rebuilt engine & find out something went wrong? You can measure them with telescoping gauges if you want, but why bother? The cost to replace them is minimal, compared to doing your engine again. A competent machinist will be sure to line up the oil feed holes but don't be afraid to double-check his work. The #3 bearing has two oil feeds that need to be lined up, the others are singles.
I just had mine done today at a local machine shop. The mechanic used a tool that expands inside the bearing and then hammers it out. He used the same tool to re-install the new bearing. He said that it is easy to mess up the new bearing while driving it back into the block. I paid $150.00 for the machine shop to hot tank my block, check it for cracks etc., install new cam bearings and all freeze plugs. That price included the parts. If you do it yourself make sure you have the new cam plug that fits the 2f block, they had a hard time finding a plug that was shallow enough so I ordered one from sor. I'm a total rookie so it was worth the expense to me. Best of luck with your project let us know how you do!
Don't do it.
Don't do it yourself.
If it's like a Chevy, that's where oil pressure is made.
JR
Don't do it yourself.
If it's like a Chevy, that's where oil pressure is made.
JR
- Thread starter
- #10
i'm going to call around and see what it costs. i know that a good took kit to do it costs about $130 on average. if i get the bearings from sor, they are $30 plus shipping. i have a friend that's a master mechanic, i may have him do it, just to see how it's done, then report back here. either way, i'll get a price, for those people in my area. if my friend can't do it, i'll report back on the machine shop. i'm not sure how dificult it can be. there is a risk in damaging the bearings just by removing and reinstalling the cam, how hard could it be to change the bearings?
you should replace your cam bearings if there is any scarring, pitting, uneven wear, or scratching, just like your mains and rods, the same applies to your cam bearings. use a telescoping mirror from autozone to look inside the block. sometimes you can tell if there is a problem by looking at the cam. i do agree with theo, if the engine is going to be overhauled, take it to the machine shop or do it yourself and change the bearings. if you don't change them, at least pull the cam and check it. i think that if you replace your cam, you have to replace the bearings, as well. that means new lifters and pushrods.
i'll have the cam out within a week, maybe i'll put some pics up for you guys...
you should replace your cam bearings if there is any scarring, pitting, uneven wear, or scratching, just like your mains and rods, the same applies to your cam bearings. use a telescoping mirror from autozone to look inside the block. sometimes you can tell if there is a problem by looking at the cam. i do agree with theo, if the engine is going to be overhauled, take it to the machine shop or do it yourself and change the bearings. if you don't change them, at least pull the cam and check it. i think that if you replace your cam, you have to replace the bearings, as well. that means new lifters and pushrods.
i'll have the cam out within a week, maybe i'll put some pics up for you guys...
I understand that worn cam bearings are a primary cause for low oil pressure. My F was rebuilt by the PO and has great compression and runs smooth but the oil pressure is lower than I would like. My bet is that they did not replace the cam bearings. It's not possible to plastigage the cam bearings so it's hard to tell how much wear you really have.
rgentry said:
IIRC, cam bearings being bad can result in oil pressure dropping at high speeds.
Most generally low oil pressure is a sign of worn main bearings.
Just what an old wrench told me, so don't put too much stock in it
Ed
so if you have one now that the PO istalled incorrectly do I have to pull my whole block out and then take it to a machine shop so they can get them lined up correctly?
apeterson said:
You can likely rent the tool from NAPA or O'Reilly's for a deposit only. You will need to remove the radiator and support and of course the bib. Can you enlist the help of a mechanic friend? Since your motor has been rebuilt recently, I'd try just replacing the cam bearings and button it up and see how it runs.
You will also need a timing cover seal and a puller to get the balancer off.
GL
Ed
- Thread starter
- #15
I spoke with my friend and he said that even if I get the tools and bearings, he wouldn't want to do it, because it would be a difficult job. I called a machine shop around here, Lafayette, La. and they charge $50 in labor to change the bearings, if the engine is disassembled to a point that they can. In other words, cam pulled and block out. He also said to make sure that the bearings that I get are finished and not semi finished. I'm contacting SOR to make sure.
This link shows the bearings:
www.sor.com
Also, I checked to make sure that the oil pump was working by using a high speed drill to simulate oil pressure. Oil squirted out of every hole, except for the items attached to the camshaft and head. No oil came up around the lifters or out of the head galley. I'm guessing that oil goes to the head, then to the lifters, so I'm not putting too much stock in that. I have the rocker arm assembly off, to make sure that it's even getting to the head. When I first turned on the drill, I had the timing gear cover off, and a stream of oil came out from the spigot on top of the crank gear, so I am quite sure that the lower end has pressure. Would anyone agree that this be another nail in the coffin to bad camshaft hearings? arrrg!
This link shows the bearings:
www.sor.com
Also, I checked to make sure that the oil pump was working by using a high speed drill to simulate oil pressure. Oil squirted out of every hole, except for the items attached to the camshaft and head. No oil came up around the lifters or out of the head galley. I'm guessing that oil goes to the head, then to the lifters, so I'm not putting too much stock in that. I have the rocker arm assembly off, to make sure that it's even getting to the head. When I first turned on the drill, I had the timing gear cover off, and a stream of oil came out from the spigot on top of the crank gear, so I am quite sure that the lower end has pressure. Would anyone agree that this be another nail in the coffin to bad camshaft hearings? arrrg!
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- Thread starter
- #16
pulled out the cam tonight. got some pics. tell me what you guys and gals think, even the obvious. what could the wear patterns mean, etc...
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Looks like some funky wear on the lobes. I would replace the bump stick and lifters.
Remind me why you are replacing the cam bearings?
It is a real PITA to do it with the engine in the truck. You need to knock the freeze plug out of the back side to R&R the rear bearing and you can't do it with the bellhousing on.
Remind me why you are replacing the cam bearings?
It is a real PITA to do it with the engine in the truck. You need to knock the freeze plug out of the back side to R&R the rear bearing and you can't do it with the bellhousing on.
- Thread starter
- #18
I'm replacing the cam bearings, and cam because there is a lot of noise coming from the cam, probably due to the next problem, and very, very little oil is getting past the journal to the head, even though the pump is supplying pressure.
I may go and get a telescoping gauge to try to check the clearance of the bearings. Either way, the cam is screwed, and a bearing replacement is only a total of $70, so it's worth a shot. I had a look at the lifters, they look like they may have been replaced during the last overhaul. There is no wear, pitting, or scratching. Is it realy necessary to replace them? If it is, I'll just buy the kit from sor.
cam kit
I may go and get a telescoping gauge to try to check the clearance of the bearings. Either way, the cam is screwed, and a bearing replacement is only a total of $70, so it's worth a shot. I had a look at the lifters, they look like they may have been replaced during the last overhaul. There is no wear, pitting, or scratching. Is it realy necessary to replace them? If it is, I'll just buy the kit from sor.
cam kit
You should at least have them resurfaced, but that approaches the cost of new lifters. The lifters are "worn in" and mated to the old cam, if that makes sense.
Ed
EDIT:
I think resurfacing is about $5@ x 12 =$60. You can buy new, aftermarket but made in Japan for $100. You are going to spend $200 on a new cam, unless you buy a regrind. The dollars work out pretty close just to get new.
Ed
EDIT:
I think resurfacing is about $5@ x 12 =$60. You can buy new, aftermarket but made in Japan for $100. You are going to spend $200 on a new cam, unless you buy a regrind. The dollars work out pretty close just to get new.
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captain_morgan said:
If you are relying on your test using a drill to spin the oil pump and looking for oil at the head, you may be getting fooled. In order for oil to get to the head, it has to pass through the cam shaft, which only happens when the hole in the cam is aligned with the oil passage. This is about 10% of its rotation. Unless you rotate the engine to align the holes, you can't really tell how much oil is getting to the head.
