C & T gone wrong? - Help wanted. (1 Viewer)

[Jackson Hanes]

I know there have been threads on this, but I couldn't find pictures or info based on my situation.

I'm a little worried as this is my first cut and turn, did I cut too far and cause damage, or have I not cut enough? My depth gauge showed about .320 inches. i have tried to heat it up/pry but it hasn't budged.

I performed my cut in the middle of the weld was that a mistake?

any input is welcome...

 

[matzell]

Cut to the inside of the weld. Just the tube. I am sure it is still welded to the ball.

 

[Jackson Hanes]

Cut to the inside of the weld. Just the tube. I am sure it is still welded to the ball.

So just grind farther back at the same depth?

 

[bj70bc]

yes
take it easy on the depth

 

[Jackson Hanes]

Perfect, and what’s the typical situation when it comes to actually turning them? Will I need to heat them, or just a 10 foot pry bar.

 

[1969FJ]

Why are you cutting ?

 

[Mike Shull]

Jackson is most likely rotating the pinion angle up for better driveline angles with a lift while keeping proper caster so that it steers well.

I’d like to know more about this project…

Why are you cutting ?

 

[matzell]

Perfect, and what’s the typical situation when it comes to actually turning them? Will I need to heat them, or just a 10 foot pry bar.

Long pipe or pry bar. you want to make a reference mark as to where you start before you turn them. Typically I like to move the pinion about 12 deg up and set caster to 5-6 deg. helps wander less on the road with bigger tires.

 

[Jackson Hanes]

Long pipe or pry bar. you want to make a reference mark as to where you start before you turn them. Typically I like to move the pinion about 12 deg up and set caster to 5-6 deg. helps wander less on the road with bigger tires.

Yeah that’s what I was aiming for, right now with the pinion at 12.4 degrees my current caster is negative 11.2

So with 37s I was gonna go for positive 5.

And also I wanted to confirm my method of measuring my caster. Is setting a digital angle finder on the bearing race the proper way?

 

[Mike Shull]

X2 on what Rob suggested. Although I’m not running the stock front axle housing, I set my caster to 5° and it drives very well with 40” tires. I do also have a wider stance (63” WMS), which helps track better on the highway.

Here is a tech article from the archives that might be helpful if you haven’t already come across it. I referenced this years ago when I had SOA on my stock axles.

Cutting and Turning

 

[peesalot]

Jackson, you are close in the last pic, those grooves left & right look deep enough, just work that tube side shoulder back towards diff.
I use the flat where steering studs are, I went 10* pinion & 4* on trunions. The balls sometimes spin with a bar and bfh pretty easy IMO. As mentioned, make reference marks. I'm guessing at neg 11* to pos 4* it will be real close to 1/2 inch rotation so make a mark 1/2 inch from baseline so you know when tour wacking it where to stop. They sometimes get tighter as you turn them so a little heat on the tune could help. If the axle is rusty inside tube they can be a pita, if they are just oily they seem to cut & move without too much trouble.

 

[clrussell]

X2 on what Rob suggested. Although I’m not running the stock front axle housing, I set my caster to 5° and it drives very well with 40” tires. I do also have a wider stance (63” WMS), which helps track better on the highway.

Here is a tech article from the archives that might be helpful if you haven’t already come across it. I referenced this years ago when I had SOA on my stock axles.

Cutting and Turning

Thanks for this link.

 

[Jackson Hanes]

Managed to get some shop time in tonight.

After the feed back. (Let me know if I interpreted it wrong) I should grind, or cut on the red line in the picture. After looking at the tech link @Mike Shull posted looks like I’m gonna screw myself if I continue grinding the seam (green sharpie)

 

[bj70bc]

i dont think you even need to go as far into the tube as the red line is, just a couple more zip cuts toward the tube, youre way deep enough imo

 

[pbgbottle]

I usually do it right where your zip tie is. I stay away from that factory weld. It usually will turn with little effort if cut where zip tie is. There even usually is a little gear oil seeping in between the tube end and sleeved knuckle. So no rust. It usually turns. Fairly easily.

 

[pbgbottle]

Here is some info I saved years ago I think from pirate or here on mud. Pic of knuckle balls pulled so you can see how much meat there is inside the tube and an other with someone’s measurements on a diagram. I just stay far away from the weld I don’t even touch it anymore.also I usually remove the steering stops.

,,

 

[Jackson Hanes]

So like @bj70bc said I really could just keep inching in and eventually get it, didn’t realize there was that much actually in the tube.

 

[pbgbottle]

So like @bj70bc said I really could just keep inching in and eventually get it, didn’t realize there was that much actually in the tube.

Sure you can inch into it.
And that’s why I posted the pic for future people to see of how much tube there is to play with. last guy I saw did it like you did and he just ended up welding it all back up and re did the cut in a better spot. You will get it ,, you’re almost there.

 

[pb4ugo]

Ive not dealt with 40 axles but have done several Dana frt ends. I think you have 2 choices, if you think you're close continue doing what you're doing, or weld it up and move the cut line. I wouldn't make the notch wider. I'd probably use a cutoff wheel or Sawzall, instead of a grinding wheel. You can mark a Sawzall blade for depth. Break the ball loose and maybe remove it, dress the seam for welding(notch), reinstall it and rotate to the proper caster.

 

[Mike Shull]

My opinion is that a Dana axle is harder to cut but easier to maneuver because you can better see what you’re doing as the C slips over the axle.

I don’t see any harm to move the cut inward towards the differential slightly and remove more material (but probably not any deeper). However, I could be missing something crucial, though the axle will need to be re-welded regardless and I don’t think that I would spend the time welding it back up now and moving the cut unless you’re talking about going inward drastically, which I don’t think that he needs to do.

The grinder method may not be the most ideal method for aesthetics, but I also don’t think that really matters much because it is all going to be re-welded and finished when it is done. I would be careful about how much you are using the grinder on the round part of the axle where you are not welding, as that will be harder to create a finished look when you’re done, though that really is just aesthetics as well. I would use a DA sander with 80 grit sandpaper on those areas where you have removed brackets, etc.

It probably goes without saying, though I would make sure that you take a measurement of your width before you break those balls loose. It is unlikely that they will go inward or outward much and you should be able to use your cut line as a reference for where to put it back, but having a width measurement may come in handy. It may also be handy to take a paint marker and draw the circumference of your cut (and keep your reference lines for when you are clocking it, which will also create two guides to lineup when you rotate your knuckle balls.

I didn’t see where anyone replied to your question, Jackson, about best practices for measuring castor. I put an angle gauge across the knuckle bearing race area as you suggested. If you have one of those small, square angle gauges, then I would recommend putting a flat edge across the top and the angle gauge on top of that. However, I would probably prefer to have an angle gauge that has a flat straight edge built into it.

I am no expert in this and I’ve only done it twice (once on an FJ40 axle and recently on a Dana 60 axle and it was a very long time ago on the FJ40 axle), and I’m sure that techniques have changed so please watch for others advice as it might be more current and more relevant. This might be getting a little far ahead, though you can do all of the next work on the bench, though I prefer putting the axle back under the vehicle and using the leaf springs and vehicle weight with Jack stands under the axle and the vehicle at straight, ride height to form a jig to weld those perches where you want, then dial in your knuckle balls and tack weld them in place.

As others have said, you are very close. Not to throw any wrenches into the game, but you are at a good point to widen your axle if you want to increase your side stability . I do not have experience in this area on an FJ40 axle as I went a different route to create a wider stance.