BUMP 3fe cooling system/ Bypass question

[TOYTACO11]

After having the complete cooling system opened on both the 3FE and 1FZ, both systems self bleed unless there is a blockage.
I have seen many threads where folks say to elevate the front, run without the cap, stand on one leg while swinging a chicken over your head, etc. The same for the power steering system. Both systems self bleed.

My procedure for filling the cooling system once opened and drained:
Fill the radiator to the top of the fill neck, fill the overflow bottle to the full line, open the heater valve fully, run the engine up to temp.
Allow to cool overnight. Check coolant level in radiator. If there was any air in the system, it should have been forced out and the radiator cap should have allowed coolant from the overflow to be drawn back in.
Fill both as needed. Carry on with your day.
After 1 or 2 drive cycles, the levels stabilize.

>>>>>This assumes a functional radiator cap and a completely sealed system.<<<<<

During normal operation, the level in the overflow should rise and fall with engine temp. There should ALWAYS be coolant in the overflow. If the overflow is getting sucked dry, then you have a leak in the system and are losing coolant under pressure.

Thats exackly how I filled the radiator
The cap is working because I do see the rise and fall of the overflow tank when warm and hot…. But im still having issues with it overheating

I think the waterpump is not working as it should but trying to verify that and not exackly sure how to…

 

[jonheld]

I think the waterpump is not working as it should but trying to verify that and not exackly sure how to…

Not that I have ever experienced this, but I have seen pictures of the impeller blades of old water pumps corroding away. I have always assumed this was due to a severely neglected cooling system. Most other parts of the system would be compromised as well.
Is there corrosion or scale built up on the thermostat housing? The inside of hard coolant tubes, etc?

Pulling the water pump on the 3FE involves patience, frustration, and colorful language.
Below is a snip from my water pump removal and installation thread that I posted on the 3FE Yahoo list 100 years ago. There are no pictures but this should help a bit.

"Below is a list of items that need to be
removed in order. I'm assuming you drained the coolant first.

Steering damper mount (let it dangle from the relay rod), belly pan,
battery, battery tray, right side wheel well skirts, carb cooling fan
plenum, smog pump hoses, smog pump (York), alternator adjuster, upper
radiator hose, fan, fan shroud, belts, PS idler pulley bracket, AC idler
pulley bracket, 3 piece lower radiator hose, and all 3 studs that secure the
water pump to the block need to be removed. Then you can pull and replace
the water pump.

Add several hours for cleaning parts, soaking 16 year old bolts in
penetrating oil, running cleaned bolts through bolt holes with moly grease,
and...well you get the picture. Not a trailside repair."

 

[TOYTACO11]

Not that I have ever experienced this, but I have seen pictures of the impeller blades of old water pumps corroding away. I have always assumed this was due to a severely neglected cooling system. Most other parts of the system would be compromised as well.
Is there corrosion or scale built up on the thermostat housing? The inside of hard coolant tubes, etc?

Pulling the water pump on the 3FE involves patience, frustration, and colorful language.
Below is a snip from my water pump removal and installation thread that I posted on the 3FE Yahoo list 100 years ago. There are no pictures but this should help a bit.

"Below is a list of items that need to be
removed in order. I'm assuming you drained the coolant first.

Steering damper mount (let it dangle from the relay rod), belly pan,
battery, battery tray, right side wheel well skirts, carb cooling fan
plenum, smog pump hoses, smog pump (York), alternator adjuster, upper
radiator hose, fan, fan shroud, belts, PS idler pulley bracket, AC idler
pulley bracket, 3 piece lower radiator hose, and all 3 studs that secure the
water pump to the block need to be removed. Then you can pull and replace
the water pump.

Add several hours for cleaning parts, soaking 16 year old bolts in
penetrating oil, running cleaned bolts through bolt holes with moly grease,
and...well you get the picture. Not a trailside repair."

Thanks for the guide does help….

The cruiser has been in my family for 20years it mostly just sat in garage until about 3 years ago I got posession of it and have done lots of work to it. When I got it the original radiator was leaking so I replaced it while I had it out I also replaced the waterpump Aisin from rock auto and thermostat…. That was 3 years ago it was all good didnt have any issues with it until around march the fan shroud came loose and the fan hit it…

The radiator was not leaking but I went ahead and replaced the fan shroud, fan, it was working until I went on vacation for a week when I got back is when it started overheating again….

Since then I did a full tune up, valves timing, new radiator from cruiser yard, new thermostat, flushed system multiple times, new fan clutch. With no luck fixing it… It will idle all day long and not overheat only overheats when I start driving and it doesnt take long for the temp to get close to red on gauge… and it is correct have a secondary gauge that shows same temp and ir gun also shows it…

The only thing that hasnt been replace is waterpump even though its not very old but am sorta worried about it being damaged when the fan hit the shroud…

 

[jonheld]

This makes no sense. It was working fine and not overheating until you came back from vacation? Did some critter build a nest in between the condenser coil and radiator coil?
Did a "friend" drive into deep mud and clog the coils while you were gone?

One of my yearly maintenance items is to use an AC coil wand and spray from the engine side out between the shroud and the radiator, making sure I get into the 4 corners where crap tends to collect.
This cleans out both coils, and I do the transmission cooler as well.

 

[TOYTACO11]

This makes no sense. It was working fine and not overheating until you came back from vacation? Did some critter build a nest in between the condenser coil and radiator coil?
Did a "friend" drive into deep mud and clog the coils while you were gone?

One of my yearly maintenance items is to use an AC coil wand and spray from the engine side out between the shroud and the radiator, making sure I get into the 4 corners where crap tends to collect.
This cleans out both coils, and I do the transmission cooler as well.

It could of been coincidence I think i drove it only a couple times and wasnt very far after the fan incident and before going on vacation..

The coils are clean I can see through them plus I made sure when I had the radiator out just last week.

All im trying to figure out is if there is a way to tell if the water pump is pumping adequate amount of water / flow test or movement with cap removed and looking in radiator neck….

I have a hunch that I have a hose that is collapsing when under a load (driving) and not at lower rpm’s. I have all new hoses on the way should be here this week and will swap them out.

other then that im at a total loss as what else to try FSM isnt that helpful as to diagnosing so turned to this forum to seek advice

Thanks again for your time and input I do appreciate it.

 

[Marco Lau]

For what its worth, i have had over 4 diff. brands of radiator in my 3FE in my 10 yrs of owning it. The CSF will overheat just cruising @ 75mph. My Liland is the best bang for the bucks, and just completed a 2000 miles round trip to Montana and back on 37s, 7000 lb weight, 3 ppl and a dog and 2 weeks worth of camping stuff, and climbed 12000 ft up in Montana Beeartooth Pass and never overheated, and it hit 220 going over the pass in Vegas in 120F on our way back due to extreme heat wave. No way your lil 3FE in good working condition wiill overheat by your description. If you have a CSF copper/brass unit., switched it out to all alum. asap.

 

[TOYTACO11]

For what its worth, i have had over 4 diff. brands of radiator in my 3FE in my 10 yrs of owning it. The CSF will overheat just cruising @ 75mph. My Liland is the best bang for the bucks, and just completed a 2000 miles round trip to Montana and back on 37s, 7000 lb weight, 3 ppl and a dog and 2 weeks worth of camping stuff, and climbed 12000 ft up in Montana Beeartooth Pass and never overheated, and it hit 220 going over the pass in Vegas in 120F on our way back due to extreme heat wave. No way your lil 3FE in good working condition wiill overheat by your description. If you have a CSF copper/brass unit., switched it out to all alum. asap.

Im not saying it is running in perfect condition its a 30yo vehicle there is something going on for sure and Im not sure what it is.

Either Im doing something wrong or im missing something thats why im reaching out. Just trying to get some input on testing the water pump. But guess ill just replace it along with the hoses and see what happens either way it cant hurt and only out 100$ if it does nothing…

Ive had a couple different radiators myself currently running a oem used one from cruiser parts. Ive tried the csf with mixed results and also have had best luck with my liland as well only reason I took it out was i needed to get the transmission fitting fixed it was leaking and havent put it back yet…

 

[Marco Lau]

Im not saying it is running in perfect condition its a 30yo vehicle there is something going on for sure and Im not sure what it is.

Either Im doing something wrong or im missing something thats why im reaching out. Just trying to get some input on testing the water pump. But guess ill just replace it along with the hoses and see what happens either way it cant hurt and only out 100$ if it does nothing…

Ive had a couple different radiators myself currently running a oem used one from cruiser parts. Ive tried the csf with mixed results and also have had best luck with my liland as well only reason I took it out was i needed to get the transmission fitting fixed it was leaking and havent put it back yet…

The Aisen OEM WP is robust and straight forward to install, so i doubt it is your brand new WP that is acting up., although i know the thermostat can be tricky to install with the correct orientation and gasket. so make sure the thermostat is installed correctly. Is your heater core in good shape? Not clogged, free of debris, etc? There isn't much more to the cooling system on the 3F-E, so if you have replaced everything new, properly burp the system to rid air bubbles. etc. you should be golden. Keep us posted and good luck

 

[jonheld]

currently running a oem used one from cruiser parts.

In a previous post you said a new radiator from Cruiser Yard (Jason is a stand up guy).
Now you say a used radiator from Cruiser Parts (known to sell garbage parts at a premium price).

 

[TOYTACO11]

The Aisen OEM WP is robust and straight forward to install, so i doubt it is your brand new WP that is acting up., although i know the thermostat can be tricky to install with the correct orientation and gasket. so make sure the thermostat is installed correctly. Is your heater core in good shape? Not clogged, free of debris, etc? There isn't much more to the cooling system on the 3F-E, so if you have replaced everything new, properly burp the system to rid air bubbles. etc. you should be golden. Keep us posted and good luck

The water pump is probably 3-4 years old now…

Thermostat has proper orientation? Is there a correct way it needs to be aligned besides top and bottom with gasket on the top side?

Heater core had some ugly looking fluid when I flushed it but heater seems to work fine and a/c works good. Now the rear heater is not working not sure if that matters or not…

Its acts like it is always bypassing the radiator when I pinch off the bypass hose it doesnt overheat that is without driving since I didnt want to drive it with the hose pinched off. So cannot verify if that is the issue.

 

[jonheld]

Thermostat has proper orientation? Is there a correct way it needs to be aligned besides top and bottom with gasket on the top side?

Not on the 3FE. The thermostat housing is horizontal. On the 1FZ, the jiggle valve needs to be towards the top because the thermostat housing is vertical.

 

[TOYTACO11]

Not on the 3FE. The thermostat housing is horizontal. On the 1FZ, the jiggle valve needs to be towards the top because the thermostat housing is vertical.

Ok thats what I thought appreciate it

 

[TOYTACO11]

In a previous post you said a new radiator from Cruiser Yard (Jason is a stand up guy).
Now you say a used radiator from Cruiser Parts (known to sell garbage parts at a premium price).

Sorry just saw this reply… I went back and verified my order and it was indeed Cruiser Parts maybe I did get screwed then… maybe I should look into finding something different.

 

[jonheld]

Sorry just saw this reply… I went back and verified my order and it was indeed Cruiser Parts maybe I did get screwed then… maybe I should look into finding something different.

Look through the bad seller section in the classifieds. They have a horrible reputation.

 

[TOYTACO11]

Look through the bad seller section in the classifieds. They have a horrible reputation.

UPDATE
So took me a couple days (couple hours after work) replacing all the coolant hoses all of them pretty easy but there is always one that creates a challenge which is the short hose off the bottom of the pump that is hidden and goes between the A/C compressor mount and below power steering pump which connect to bottom radiator hose… managed to remove and install new one without removing p.s. pump or hvac compressor was not easy but it can be done….

Once all the hoses were replaced I flushed the entire system several times, pressure tested cooling system which it help 15psi with no issues. Tested the cap which was good filled system with water bleed air out let engine cool down checked coolant level and reservoir and took the cruiser out for a drive this evening about 45 miles through the hill country never got above 200deg which im going to say is perfectly acceptable in my book…

I will continue to monitor and check coolant level over the next couple drives and hope its finally fixed…

 

[NeilC]

I know this thread is a year old but I installed an aftermarket temp gauge and was wondering what it the hottest that a 3FE should run in very hot weather? After running 20 or so miles on the highway in 95 to 100 degree heat with high humidity, I noticed when I was stopped at a red light in traffic that my guage was reading 220. My gauge is reading 3 to 4 degrees hotter than the laser thermometer pointed at the base of the water outlet on the thermostat housing so that would bring the highest temp I have seen to 216 to 217. What do you think? Too hot? This is in Louisiana in the middle(noon) of 108 degree heat index day. My AC temp coming out the vents was below 50 degrees so that might have contributed a little bit... Never had a problem with overheating but this is the first summer with a real gauge.

 

[Marco Lau]

I know this thread is a year old but I installed an aftermarket temp gauge and was wondering what it the hottest that a 3FE should run in very hot weather? After running 20 or so miles on the highway in 95 to 100 degree heat with high humidity, I noticed when I was stopped at a red light in traffic that my guage was reading 220. My gauge is reading 3 to 4 degrees hotter than the laser thermometer pointed at the base of the water outlet on the thermostat housing so that would bring the highest temp I have seen to 216 to 217. What do you think? Too hot? This is in Louisiana in the middle(noon) of 108 degree heat index day. My AC temp coming out the vents was below 50 degrees so that might have contributed a little bit... Never had a problem with overheating but this is the first summer with a real gauge.

3FE can take quite a bit of abuse including higher coolant temp. I would say normal highway speed should be around 190ish. 210F is not uncommon for pulling long steep grade on 2-3 rd gear. Anything over 225F is starting to become suspect as coolant starting to pour out of the overflow - 1st sign of engine overheating and an attempt to shed heat.... 215F is not uncommon IMO.

 

[TOYTACO11]

I know this thread is a year old but I installed an aftermarket temp gauge and was wondering what it the hottest that a 3FE should run in very hot weather? After running 20 or so miles on the highway in 95 to 100 degree heat with high humidity, I noticed when I was stopped at a red light in traffic that my guage was reading 220. My gauge is reading 3 to 4 degrees hotter than the laser thermometer pointed at the base of the water outlet on the thermostat housing so that would bring the highest temp I have seen to 216 to 217. What do you think? Too hot? This is in Louisiana in the middle(noon) of 108 degree heat index day. My AC temp coming out the vents was below 50 degrees so that might have contributed a little bit... Never had a problem with overheating but this is the first summer with a real gauge.

I live in South Texas We have basically the same weather and my 3fe temps are the same as yours. Stop and go traffic highest ive seen is right at 220deg soon as I get moving again it drops down to somewhere around 190 which thermostat open temp.

My gauge is tapped in on the top radiator hose between the radiator and thermostat housing.
Ive done the fan clutch mod as well didnt see much of a difference in temps but you can sure hear the fan spinning sounds like a plane taking off.

But I came to the sensus that everything is working fine and these temps are on the higher end but shouldnt be an issue…

 

[NeilC]

Thanks for the responses. I figured as much but would still like to it lower too. I currently have the brass/copper CSF radiator but might consider the Liland aluminum in the future. My CSF is only about 5 years old and the Liland 2 and 3 cores were out of stock at the time I needed one. Also there were a lot of posts at the time complaining about quality issues of the cheaper aluminum radiators. Is there a consensus, other than more is better, as to the 2 core verses the 3 core. I would think 3 core would be the way to go unless it caused a fitment issue.

 

[Marco Lau]

Thanks for the responses. I figured as much but would still like to it lower too. I currently have the brass/copper CSF radiator but might consider the Liland aluminum in the future. My CSF is only about 5 years old and the Liland 2 and 3 cores were out of stock at the time I needed one. Also there were a lot of posts at the time complaining about quality issues of the cheaper aluminum radiators. Is there a consensus, other than more is better, as to the 2 core verses the 3 core. I would think 3 core would be the way to go unless it caused a fitment issue.

Here is what i would do. Remove the CSF and put in a Liland or any Alum. 2 core. 3 cores flow less as they are more restricted in my experience. My CSF was a consitant 15F warmer than my Liland and after about 2 months, i yanked it and threw it in the trash and put in a Alum, unit and never looked back. I have had Ron Davis, Liland 2/3 core, CSF. TYC for a 1FZ and an Ebay junk. Go with a RD or Liland and never look back.