Brush Guard Question (Damage Multiplier) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter kstraub
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No. It's no better than a brush guard. Even more useless maybe.
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I guess it depends on your definition of wheeling? My rig has ~5" of lift, 37" tires and the bumper hits terra firma often. Maybe poor driving, need to hire a driver or something?
By air dam, I'm talking about the vertical section at the bottom of the bumper. A properly designed bumper should be angled back and smooth, like a skid plate, to slide over terra firma. Square corners and vertical parts get caught on even minor surface roughness, hanging the rig up and putting huge loads on the bumper, often bending it. I have had the knife edge on the bottom stick in a crack, couldn't move forwards or back, had to jack it up to move and wasn't in the best spot to be doing that type of fun!
A few pix, the first two from '96, the third from '97. I have also flattened those worthless "recovery thingys" a bunch of times. I straightened everything a few times, started to see cracks, so now just leave it. It has seen more trauma, so isn't that pretty today.
By air dam, I'm talking about the vertical section at the bottom of the bumper. A properly designed bumper should be angled back and smooth, like a skid plate, to slide over terra firma. Square corners and vertical parts get caught on even minor surface roughness, hanging the rig up and putting huge loads on the bumper, often bending it. I have had the knife edge on the bottom stick in a crack, couldn't move forwards or back, had to jack it up to move and wasn't in the best spot to be doing that type of fun!
A few pix, the first two from '96, the third from '97. I have also flattened those worthless "recovery thingys" a bunch of times. I straightened everything a few times, started to see cracks, so now just leave it. It has seen more trauma, so isn't that pretty today.
okey dokey...there's seems to be some confusion to clear up about different bumper options in this thread -
caveat - the stock bumper on the 80 is not all solid, so it's poor protection for the front of the truck, hence the need to replace it.
brush guard aka "damage multiplier" attaches to the front frame extensions and sits in front of the stock bumper, often made from relatively questionable-strength metal. brush guards are not good as the brush guard part over the headlights does not attach to the bumper, so as stated in the thread, they can swing around under impact and damage front quarter panels, headlights, hood, the list goes on. they are good for looks but arguably a real front bumper looks better, cleaner. also does not replace the stock front bumper, so there's not better protection for the front of the rig (the actual main problem).
"Bull Bar" type front bumper - fully replaces front bumper with a full steel constructed bumper that bolts onto the front extensions of the frame. solid. durable. the "bull bar" part is welded-to-the-bumper protection for the grill and headlights. this "bull bar" protection is key in keeping the truck operational after collision with wildlife, as well as keeping the wildlife from coming over the top and into the windshield (now that's dangerous!). wildlife can crush the front end of a stock truck in so far as to damage the radiator, which can leave the truck stuck miles out from anywhere and completely inoperable. Best example in the US market of this style bumper is the ARB bumper available for the 80 series. for many folks driving 80s in less urban areas a bull bar bumper and a small lift can be the difference between a really serious accident post wildlife collision and more or less simply driving away down the road with some fur and blood on the front end.
"Rock Crawling" bumpers - designed to provide maximum approach angle to the front of the vehicle with the ability to install a winch in the bumper as well. bolt onto the front extensions of the frame. addresses many of the concerns voiced by Tools R Us about the performance of the ARB for difficult wheeling situations. The Slee bumper is a great example of this style bumper. These bumpers are solid steel construction, low profile, and often do not have any type of protection for the headlights, sometime a single hoop over the grill to protect the radiator.
kstraub - good call on stepping up to the ARB - I think ultimately you'll be happier you went that way. it really completes the 80 in a great way. you may want to consider getting some 30mm bumpstops to add to the front end of the truck to re-level it out given the extra weight that bumper will add to the front end of the rig. enjoy!
caveat - the stock bumper on the 80 is not all solid, so it's poor protection for the front of the truck, hence the need to replace it.
brush guard aka "damage multiplier" attaches to the front frame extensions and sits in front of the stock bumper, often made from relatively questionable-strength metal. brush guards are not good as the brush guard part over the headlights does not attach to the bumper, so as stated in the thread, they can swing around under impact and damage front quarter panels, headlights, hood, the list goes on. they are good for looks but arguably a real front bumper looks better, cleaner. also does not replace the stock front bumper, so there's not better protection for the front of the rig (the actual main problem).
"Bull Bar" type front bumper - fully replaces front bumper with a full steel constructed bumper that bolts onto the front extensions of the frame. solid. durable. the "bull bar" part is welded-to-the-bumper protection for the grill and headlights. this "bull bar" protection is key in keeping the truck operational after collision with wildlife, as well as keeping the wildlife from coming over the top and into the windshield (now that's dangerous!). wildlife can crush the front end of a stock truck in so far as to damage the radiator, which can leave the truck stuck miles out from anywhere and completely inoperable. Best example in the US market of this style bumper is the ARB bumper available for the 80 series. for many folks driving 80s in less urban areas a bull bar bumper and a small lift can be the difference between a really serious accident post wildlife collision and more or less simply driving away down the road with some fur and blood on the front end.
"Rock Crawling" bumpers - designed to provide maximum approach angle to the front of the vehicle with the ability to install a winch in the bumper as well. bolt onto the front extensions of the frame. addresses many of the concerns voiced by Tools R Us about the performance of the ARB for difficult wheeling situations. The Slee bumper is a great example of this style bumper. These bumpers are solid steel construction, low profile, and often do not have any type of protection for the headlights, sometime a single hoop over the grill to protect the radiator.
kstraub - good call on stepping up to the ARB - I think ultimately you'll be happier you went that way. it really completes the 80 in a great way. you may want to consider getting some 30mm bumpstops to add to the front end of the truck to re-level it out given the extra weight that bumper will add to the front end of the rig. enjoy!
FWIW I was being sarcastic.
Anyway - When I pony up it will be for the slee shortbus or fab something up.
I read your post and gained a lot from it--actually bookmarked this page after reading it. Thanks, Brian! Your detailed explanation post is an example of why MUD is such a valuable resource! (particularly to us unseasoned owners).
Yep and good overall write-up on the basic of a front "bumper". You described it well.
thanks gents -
if you're ever up in WY or northern CO, check out the size of the wildlife-vaporizing bumpers the guys run on their 3/4-ton and 1-ton pick up trucks. even the sheriff has one on his Trailblazer (he's usually in Maybell at the General Store) those bumpers make an ARB look stock! of course they do have some of the better elk hunting in the lower 48 up there...
if you're ever up in WY or northern CO, check out the size of the wildlife-vaporizing bumpers the guys run on their 3/4-ton and 1-ton pick up trucks. even the sheriff has one on his Trailblazer (he's usually in Maybell at the General Store) those bumpers make an ARB look stock! of course they do have some of the better elk hunting in the lower 48 up there...
this brushgaurd came on mine when I bought it. It is very beefy (my 270lb ass climbs on it to work on the motor/clean the hood, and it doesn't bend or flex). I can even grab and try to move it around and it doesn't budge. It appears as though the guards over the headlights are removable from the center structure. I guess I should get rid of this?
this brushgaurd came on mine when I bought it. It is very beefy (my 270lb ass climbs on it to work on the motor/clean the hood, and it doesn't bend or flex). I can even grab and try to move it around and it doesn't budge. It appears as though the guards over the headlights are removable from the center structure. I guess I should get rid of this?
take 'em off and see if you like the look. I think you'll be surprised at the puny hardware holding on the headlight "protectors". removal of the headlight protectors will keep your front end protected from idiots backing into your front end and will protect the all-important radiator from a head-on collision. good call.
there is also something about "armor" on the front of a truck - cars seems to be more excited to get out of the way when they're travelling at a different rate of speed in the wrong lane...
if you don't dig the look with them off, well, re-installation will be as simple as hitting the reverse button on a VCR.
this brushgaurd came on mine when I bought it. It is very beefy (my 270lb ass climbs on it to work on the motor/clean the hood, and it doesn't bend or flex). I can even grab and try to move it around and it doesn't budge. It appears as though the guards over the headlights are removable from the center structure. I guess I should get rid of this?
Up to you. General consensus is you are better off without it. Standing on one VS impact is 2 separate items.
If you have any self-respect you should!I guess I should get rid of this?
J/K!
As it has been said before... to each his own!
Some (many) have put ARB's on their trucks for deer/accident protection.
And while I consider that a high priority I also wanted my bumper to look better (Not saying ARB is ugly by any means though!), so I got a bull bar, but not as stout as the ARB.
Good luck and have fun!
- Joined
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- 23,205
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- www.tontorecreationalliance.org
There is zero reason that these two need to exclusive, other have most manufactures have chosen to make it that way. A good clearance/shaped lower could be mated to a face mask for full protection. See this one from the bumper thread:
IH8MUD.com - View Single Post - Forum Members Front Bumpers
ARB came close with the "commercial bar" and some of the TJM's are nicely shaped, but reported to be weak?
The "Rock Crawling" bumper thing is a misnomer. Rock is one of the hardest obstacles, but any type of obstacle can catch on a poorly shaped bumper, so prefer to call them wheeling bumpers.
I prefer a full face bumper for two reasons: 1; LX headlights are expensive, so protection is nice. 2; In the case of a rollover, '80's land on the A pillar area and hood. This is likely to push the hood down, very possibly crushing the radiator and/or shorting the battery, possibly causing a fire. It's not that I care about condition of the hood on a totaled rig, it's about driving the wreck out v.s. having to recover, drag it out.
If you have any self-respect you should!
J/K!
As it has been said before... to each his own!
Some (many) have put ARB's on their trucks for deer/accident protection.
And while I consider that a high priority I also wanted my bumper to look better (Not saying ARB is ugly by any means though!), so I got a bull bar, but not as stout as the ARB.
Good luck and have fun!
The ARB IS a bull bar. So I'm not sure what you bought!
There is zero reason that these two need to exclusive, other have most manufactures have chosen to make it that way. A good clearance/shaped lower could be mated to a face mask for full protection. See this one from the bumper thread:
IH8MUD.com - View Single Post - Forum Members Front Bumpers
ARB came close with the "commercial bar" and some of the TJM's are nicely shaped, but reported to be weak?
The "Rock Crawling" bumper thing is a misnomer. Rock is one of the hardest obstacles, but any type of obstacle can catch on a poorly shaped bumper, so prefer to call them wheeling bumpers.
I prefer a full face bumper for two reasons: 1; LX headlights are expensive, so protection is nice. 2; In the case of a rollover, '80's land on the A pillar area and hood. This is likely to push the hood down, very possibly crushing the radiator and/or shorting the battery, possibly causing a fire. It's not that I care about condition of the hood on a totaled rig, it's about driving the wreck out v.s. having to recover, drag it out.
That link you posted- That bumper looks like a cheap knock off of the ARB bull bar. That guy should have just bought an ARB. At least there is some proven engineering/safety behind an ARB.
There are plenty of capable fabricators, a bumper doesn't have to be mass produced to be built well. The ARB may be what you want, others may have different tastes. I doubt the bumper linked above, was bought/built because it was cheap...
You have much to learn I didn't post the link, just commenting on it.
However, while in your opinion it is just a knock off, I would disagree. It does use similar/same protection above the bumper, but the bumper itself appears to be a tube bumper, which tapers up at the wings, has some metal sheet covering the open area, probably for aesthetics, but is lightened with holes, while the bottom of the center part of the bumper tapers down, without any vertical surfaces to get caught on an obstacle. Basically, it should be lighter, have better approach angles from every direction, and still offer many of the benefits of the ARB...
I didn't post the link, just commenting on it.However, while in your opinion it is just a knock off, I would disagree. It does use similar/same protection above the bumper, but the bumper itself appears to be a tube bumper, which tapers up at the wings, has some metal sheet covering the open area, probably for aesthetics, but is lightened with holes, while the bottom of the center part of the bumper tapers down, without any vertical surfaces to get caught on an obstacle. Basically, it should be lighter, have better approach angles from every direction, and still offer many of the benefits of the ARB...
You have much to learn
x2.....
There is zero reason that these two need to exclusive, other have most manufactures have chosen to make it that way. A good clearance/shaped lower could be mated to a face mask for full protection. See this one from the bumper thread:
IH8MUD.com - View Single Post - Forum Members Front Bumpers
ARB came close with the "commercial bar" and some of the TJM's are nicely shaped, but reported to be weak?
The "Rock Crawling" bumper thing is a misnomer. Rock is one of the hardest obstacles, but any type of obstacle can catch on a poorly shaped bumper, so prefer to call them wheeling bumpers.
I prefer a full face bumper for two reasons: 1; LX headlights are expensive, so protection is nice. 2; In the case of a rollover, '80's land on the A pillar area and hood. This is likely to push the hood down, very possibly crushing the radiator and/or shorting the battery, possibly causing a fire. It's not that I care about condition of the hood on a totaled rig, it's about driving the wreck out v.s. having to recover, drag it out.
good points Tools R Us. I agree with you.
I was trying to simplify the differences in bumpers for those that are looking to understand basic advantages/disadvantages of different general types. I'm running a TJM kind of by accident, but I am happy about it cause it's a little simpler looking than the ARB unit. If I were into some heavy off road stuff I'd be into a one-off bumper with max clearance and protection for the front end as you specify.
