- Thread starter
- #41
That Safari Snorkel vid is nutty. I like this one: Shotts' '93 FZJ80 (Deep water to the Pools at Chiva Falls)‏ - YouTube
Breather Questions... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter atomicshawn
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- Thread starter
- #42
Received a request for a close-up of the distributor. Apologies for the poor picture quality.
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Your results (pre/post filter testing) are exactly what I would expect to find. Vacuum is generated by placing obstructions upstream of the motor. That is why the greatest vacuum is between the throttle and the intake port, the throttle is a pretty big obstruction (duh
). The intake tube itself is a restriction to flow, but very small compared to a throttle plate. The filter is the next biggest restriction.This is one of the reasons that when properly sizing a turbo for an engine, you don't assume the turbo inlet pressure to be atmospheric, but rather 1-1.5psi less than atmospheric due to pressure drop across the filter/intake tube.
The restriction of the air box itself, when compared to the filter and intake tube is very very small, which is why you only saw fluctuations when stabbing the throttle. (sudden change in pressure)
I would venture to say that your results WILL be different once a snorkel is installed, since you will effectively increase the flow restriction upstream of the filter.
Cliff notes: If you placed pressure transducers along every point of the intake path, the negative pressure will increase as you approach the throttle body as the upstream restriction increases the closer you get to the throttle. The greatest delta-P you'll see is across the filter, likely with the MAF right behind.
- Thread starter
- #44
Thanks for breaking it down Hatch. Most of it is intuitive I think, but you obviously have some insight. The negative pressure increase closer to the restriction is fascinating. Implications for this application would be moving the port closer to that air restricting monstrosity that is the MAF to increase vacuum/air flow through the distributor.
I never thought about the added restriction the snorkel would place on the system, and thus, the possibility of increased vacuum in the cases. I would hope that the diameter of the tube would be large enough that the restriction would be nominal… a lot of bends though. My guess would be that pressures would change depending on speed and throttle position. Do you think that “ram air effect” others postulate is valid? Even if it is, it would not help at low speeds... like when doing water crossings... the worst possible time to have vacuum in the cases.
I never thought about the added restriction the snorkel would place on the system, and thus, the possibility of increased vacuum in the cases. I would hope that the diameter of the tube would be large enough that the restriction would be nominal… a lot of bends though. My guess would be that pressures would change depending on speed and throttle position. Do you think that “ram air effect” others postulate is valid? Even if it is, it would not help at low speeds... like when doing water crossings... the worst possible time to have vacuum in the cases.
Thanks for breaking it down Hatch. Most of it is intuitive I think, but you obviously have some insight. The negative pressure increase closer to the restriction is fascinating. Implications for this application would be moving the port closer to that air restricting monstrosity that is the MAF to increase vacuum/air flow through the distributor.
I never thought about the added restriction the snorkel would place on the system, and thus, the possibility of increased vacuum in the cases. I would hope that the diameter of the tube would be large enough that the restriction would be nominal… a lot of bends though. My guess would be that pressures would change depending on speed and throttle position. Do you think that “ram air effect” others postulate is valid? Even if it is, it would not help at low speeds... like when doing water crossings... the worst possible time to have vacuum in the cases.
You're quite welcome.
I think you're correct in assuming the effect of the snokel being nominal, but there will be an effect, that was my point.
I think the "ram air" effect is a crock, considering the convoluted path the air needs to take. I don't want to write it off, but I would be surprised to see substantiated results.
You need to remember that when doing water crossings you won't be at wide open throttle, at least in most situations. Will there be heavy throttle application? Sure... but not sustained WOT across the whole obstacle. WOT is when the greatest effect of the snorkel would be realized.
- Thread starter
- #46
Thought I would post a performance update:
I have done a few water crossings since installing the breathers, some were deep and long enough to bury the axles a while, but probably nothing that would threaten the distributor. Checked cases, fluid looks great, and the breathers still breathe.
I had several backcountry trips worth of dirt and mud built up under the hood so decided to detail the engine today. Cold engine idling I ran a full stream from a garden hose directly over the distributor and cap several times. Engine ran perfectly
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![DSCF4262[1].jpg](data:image/svg+xml;charset=utf-8,%3Csvg xmlns%3D'http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg' width='800' height='600' viewBox%3D'0 0 800 600'%2F%3E "DSCF4262[1].jpg")
I have done a few water crossings since installing the breathers, some were deep and long enough to bury the axles a while, but probably nothing that would threaten the distributor. Checked cases, fluid looks great, and the breathers still breathe.
I had several backcountry trips worth of dirt and mud built up under the hood so decided to detail the engine today. Cold engine idling I ran a full stream from a garden hose directly over the distributor and cap several times. Engine ran perfectly
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Thanks for the update!
93yotasr5
Come and take it
Wow that's a nice breather set up.
water crossing
All it takes is one crossing to ruin an engine....take it from someone who knows. I've heard and seen people with water over the bonnet with no snorkel...to me that is just crazy and asking for trouble.
The first photo is the depth of the water that bent the conrods on my 4runner and cost me close to $5000 for a rebuild. It's not that deep at all.
The second photos are of the diff breathers I installed on my 80. Just some clear tube from bunnings and fuel filters.
I also have a snorkel....after rebuilding one engine I will never own a 4x4 without a snorkel again.
All it takes is one crossing to ruin an engine....take it from someone who knows. I've heard and seen people with water over the bonnet with no snorkel...to me that is just crazy and asking for trouble.
The first photo is the depth of the water that bent the conrods on my 4runner and cost me close to $5000 for a rebuild. It's not that deep at all.
The second photos are of the diff breathers I installed on my 80. Just some clear tube from bunnings and fuel filters.
I also have a snorkel....after rebuilding one engine I will never own a 4x4 without a snorkel again.
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
I just stumbled across this thread. it looks like you got a good job figuring out what you need to waterproof.
The reason to not to completely seal your distributor fully airtight is because it needs to vent to allow vapors from the engine out and built up ionization out as well.
Starting in 78 the 2&3F engines had a watertight distributor with a venting system installed from the factory.
Running the suction line to the air cleaner is sufficient. It does not need significant vacuum at all, just the tiniest amount will suffice to prevent the buildup of moisture or corrosive vapors.
When everything is right you can get the hood of an 80 under the current without a snorkel and pull out of it. However it is just as likely that you will at the very least stall the engine possibly hydrolock it or even lose the rig. Trust me I know.
This first picture is one of our guys taking a hole in the Gokona River with a bit of vigor.
The second is my daughter taking a hole that is a little bit shallower at a bit more sedate pace.
Both of these could be tackled without a snorkel with no real trepidation. But the snorkel definitely raises the comfort level.
Mark...
The reason to not to completely seal your distributor fully airtight is because it needs to vent to allow vapors from the engine out and built up ionization out as well.
Starting in 78 the 2&3F engines had a watertight distributor with a venting system installed from the factory.
Running the suction line to the air cleaner is sufficient. It does not need significant vacuum at all, just the tiniest amount will suffice to prevent the buildup of moisture or corrosive vapors.
When everything is right you can get the hood of an 80 under the current without a snorkel and pull out of it. However it is just as likely that you will at the very least stall the engine possibly hydrolock it or even lose the rig. Trust me I know.
This first picture is one of our guys taking a hole in the Gokona River with a bit of vigor.
The second is my daughter taking a hole that is a little bit shallower at a bit more sedate pace.
Both of these could be tackled without a snorkel with no real trepidation. But the snorkel definitely raises the comfort level.
Mark...
- Thread starter
- #51
I love this picture. Thanks for your input Mark.
- Thread starter
- #52
Better safe than sorry I suppose.
Snorkeled:................................................................................
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NLXTACY
Wits' End
Better safe than sorry I suppose.
You should run the breathers to the top of the snork just in case
- Thread starter
- #54
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- Thread starter
- #55
Since I started doing research on this waterproofing project there has been one weakness that I came across that's been bugging me: (see pic post #4 and Kevin's explanation post #24 https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/483624-snorkle-not-snorkle-what-about-winch.html ) I missed it if someone else here has addressed it.
I could have just eliminated it, but I like having the alarm, and I'm too lazy to go through the hassle of relocating it, so I've attempted to waterproof the control box under the drivers seat: moved the drivers seat toward, unfastened the one zip tie that holds it to the carpet, I found a heavy gauge plastic bag about the right size, threw in a couple of silica packages, wrapped the open end around the harness and secured it with a couple of strong rubber bands. Then Wrapped the hell out of it with electrical tape as tight as I could, secured it with the original zip tie.
Honestly I hope I'm never in the water long enough to flood the cabin, but this might buy some time, just in case...
I could have just eliminated it, but I like having the alarm, and I'm too lazy to go through the hassle of relocating it, so I've attempted to waterproof the control box under the drivers seat: moved the drivers seat toward, unfastened the one zip tie that holds it to the carpet, I found a heavy gauge plastic bag about the right size, threw in a couple of silica packages, wrapped the open end around the harness and secured it with a couple of strong rubber bands. Then Wrapped the hell out of it with electrical tape as tight as I could, secured it with the original zip tie.
Honestly I hope I'm never in the water long enough to flood the cabin, but this might buy some time, just in case...
NLXTACY
Wits' End
Put it in a pelican case. Notch it then silicone the cuts around the harness.
You are the king of over engineering! Didn't know they made a pelican case that small. I was going to suggest a better ziplock bag.
Fishing-boating stores have plenty of small waterproof cases. Plano makes a box that should work, pelican makes them too. Places that sell kayaks will have em for not a lot of money.
NLXTACY
Wits' End
Pelican makes cases that are cell phone size all the way up to engine size and larger.
- Thread starter
- #60
Pelican schmelican... Or you could spend $0 put it in a tough plastic bag and get the same results.
