Brakes really Poor (1 Viewer)

[crooozer]

Hey all.

I'm wondering if all 80 series brakes are as bad as mine.
I have plenty of chunk left on pads because I pulled them not long ago. I tried to brake quickly this afternoon and really realised that if I'm doing 100kmp/h I really can't stop in a hurry.. I'm talking it will take me about 60 metres to come to a full stop if I slammed the brakes on.

Are they all this bad, or could something be a bit out of whack?

I know I'm not missing any brake fluid so no leaks.

 

[jamisobe]

There are is A TON of info out there as well as a ton of opinions. I would spend an hour or two searching if I were you. There are alternative replacements available that will improve heavy braking.

 

[bhmmapping]

something is out of whack. with oem pads and oem rotors it should put you in the windshield if you hit the brakes hard enough.

 

[crooozer]

For real!? Mine ain't doing that I can assure you. I was really suprised when I drove a new 200 series, that was as you describe.

So, what should I check? Would a brake bleed be best bet first up? Note, I have done this twice since taking ownership and they've never been any better. I replaced the master cyl about 6 months go and a LSPV before that. Once they were spongy and REALLY crap, but bled them and they're as good as they've ever been, which isn't very good..

Basically it feels as if I press any harder something will give for some reason. As far as I know my booster is okay.. Did a check on that as per factory manual, whic really would only leave (correct me if I'm wrong)

1. Bulging brake lines (those rubber looking bits at the wheels)
2. Sticking calipers (doesn't pull to the side though?)
3. Pads? (No sqealing though, and the pads had meat left 6 months ago when I checked them, doesn't seem any worse than it was back then)
What else could it be!?

 

[bhmmapping]

you might also have to bleed the master cylinder better. There is a specific order for bleeding the lspv and calipers, I don't remember what it is off of the top of my head. You might also want to re-bed the pads - also not sure on the procedure there but search will turn it up.

 

[Stevesnj]

you might also have to bleed the master cylinder better. There is a specific order for bleeding the lspv and calipers, I don't remember what it is off of the top of my head. You might also want to re-bed the pads - also not sure on the procedure there but search will turn it up.

Bleeding:
Right rear, Left Rear, Right Front, Left Front, LSPV last IIRC from the FSM.

 

[atomicshawn]

croozer you've had your 80 for a while now correct? Have the brakes gotten worse? I've driven at least 1/2 dozen different 80s and either they all had brake problems or the brakes just plain suck on these things compared to other vehicles, especially if you're loaded and sporting oversized tires.

There are is A TON of info out there as well as a ton of opinions. I would spend an hour or two searching if I were you. There are alternative replacements available that will improve heavy braking.

^x2

 

[crooozer]

Thanks mate. I've just read that replacing master cylinders and if not bench bled they can retain some air in them cause they apparently tilt upward a bit and retain a bit of air that can't come out. The dude says it made the vehicle about 75% better in the braking dept..

How do I bleed the master now it's on the vehicle?

 

[crooozer]

Yea mate I've had the 80 for about 2 years now, they have always been crap. So are you saying that all 80's just have crappy brakes like I suspect? It's just that that one guy above said otherwise is what got me thinking something must be wrong.

 

[crooozer]

Thank you, thats how I bled them.

Bleeding:
Right rear, Left Rear, Right Front, Left Front, LSPV last IIRC from the FSM.

 

[Stevesnj]

For the stuff that we put theses vehicle thru and the weight of the vehicle these brakes work awful hard. I would flush the entire system and go from there. Use a power flusher or have a friend over to hlp pump the brake pedal.

 

[bhmmapping]

Yea mate I've had the 80 for about 2 years now, they have always been crap. So are you saying that all 80's just have crappy brakes like I suspect? It's just that that one guy above said otherwise is what got me thinking something must be wrong.

My new truck, a 97 40th just like yours, stops great. Just before I bought it the previous owner had new rotors and pads installed including 100 series pads in the front. My 92 isn't great, but with autozone pads and drum breaks in the rear it is better than you would think. I replaced all of the lines on it and it made a big difference. I have only been unhappy with it on very steep trails.

 

[crooozer]

Thanks mate, I did that with my Wife, we flushed about 800ml through the system.

For the stuff that we put theses vehicle thru and the weight of the vehicle these brakes work awful hard. I would flush the entire system and go from there. Use a power flusher or have a friend over to hlp pump the brake pedal.

 

[crooozer]

Thanks mate,

So maybe next time I replace pads I'll sand the rotors and replace the fronts with 100 series pads, yea?

My new truck, a 97 40th just like yours, stops great. Just before I bought it the previous owner had new rotors and pads installed including 100 series pads in the front. My 92 isn't great, but with autozone pads and drum breaks in the rear it is better than you would think. I replaced all of the lines on it and it made a big difference. I have only been unhappy with it on very steep trails.

 

[bhmmapping]

Thanks mate,

So maybe next time I replace pads I'll sand the rotors and replace the fronts with 100 series pads, yea?

I could be wrong but my understanding is that the 100 series pads are for longevity more than performance.

here's a good read - the requote with the stopping distance compared to other cars in the same year tells me that they are actually really good if they are working correctly.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/557394-do-80s-brake-suck.html

 

[crooozer]

Thanks for that. We;; without reading any further, I've found this article that seems to verify about my current 'issue'

Originally Posted by Tools R Us
Here is some brake data that I have collected, it’s not directly comparable, temp, surface, test method, etc come into play, but gives a good idea of performance trends. Most of the groups are from the same source, so comparable. Note the ’96 Models group, the ’80 did better than vehicles weighing 1/2 ton less, I would call that “best in class” and the ‘80’s performance compares very well overall to other tested vehicles.

Note that most vehicles with well designed brakes group closely by weight. This is true because; if the brake system is capable of producing ~95% of tire skid, brake performance becomes a game of coefficient of friction (tire traction) and to a lesser extent mass in motion (rig weight). So in the end of the game it comes down to tire construction, compound, inflation, etc, a hard compound, over inflated tire will break loose, not stop as fast as a softer, properly inflated tire.

Braking Distance (60-0 mph):

1996 LX450 … 136
1997 LX450 ... 132
1998 Toyota Landcruiser … 140


Seems to be about the same speeds and stopping distance I originally enquire about, right? kmh converted to mph 100.0km = 62.137mph
I think that an 80 that stops like a 200 series would have to have the entire braking system upgraded. And there aint' no way I'm THAT keen on it.

 

[jamisobe]

After you get done rebleeding your brakes, putting different organic pads on your truck, and then finding that you still have crappy brake fade try a good set of slotted rotors (cryogenically treated if you can swing it-they will last you about 500k miles) with a good set of semi-metallic pads. Then you will stop faster under heavy load. Slee sells some good high performance slotted rotors.

It is true that the brakes on these trucks are excellent compared to other heavy trucks, but when you compare them to lighter vehicles they do not perform as well. That doesn't mean you have to live with it. You can upgrade.

 

[crooozer]

Ha! Now thats a better description Think I'm getting a good grasp on what the 80's are really like stock.
Thanks everybody, solved.

After you get done rebleeding your brakes, putting different organic pads on your truck, and then finding that you still have crappy brake fade try a good set of slotted rotors (cryogenically treated if you can swing it-they will last you about 500k miles) with a good set of semi-metallic pads. Then you will stop faster under heavy load. Slee sells some good high performance slotted rotors.

It is true that the brakes on these trucks are excellent compared to other heavy trucks, but when you compare them to lighter vehicles they do not perform as well. That doesn't mean you have to live with it. You can upgrade.

 

[atomicshawn]

Yea mate I've had the 80 for about 2 years now, they have always been ****. So are you saying that all 80's just have crappy brakes like I suspect?...

I guess I should qualify "just plain suck". My experience has been that an 80 will stop as quickly as comparably sized vehicles, it just takes a lot more muscle. Not a fair comparison but I just purchased a 2002 Tacoma recently and on the test drive I bout put myself and the poor guy who was selling it through the windshield when I hit the brakes the first time i was so used to my lc.

Certainly do what all the others suggest; change fluid, bleed it properly, use good hardware, rotors, pads, calipers, lines, etc... but in the end the only option might be to go to the gym and build that right leg... or left leg maybe in you're case

 

[gotmud]

FWIW, I'm running a completely stock braking system (other than 100 series pads and longer OEM lines) with 35's. In both normal driving and panic stops, the truck tracks straight and stops rather quickly. X2 with the 's '93 with 33's. However, both have had the LSPV replaced. In each case, it was leaking.