Do 80's brake SUCK?!

[homey]

I was driving home from Sierra Expeditions tonight (these guys have done all the work my truck since i bought it a couple weeks ago) and as I was driving toward to the freeway onramp a whole family (mom, dad and kid in a stroller) were walking across the street. I didn't see them until it was almost too late and I had to serve while applying full braking force to avoid wiping out an entire family in one fell swoop . The wheels didn't lock and the tires didn't even chirp and I would have expected this with the amount of force i applied to the brake pedal and the speed I was traveling (about 25 mph).
My question is, do these brakes just suck because the truck weighs so much or do they suck because the rears are drums, or because it's a vacuum braking system, or what? I was told by S.E. that the brakes were fine when they looked at them a week ago. What do I do to get better performance from this old truck?

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

Here's my list of what I did to make the brakes work on the 92:

Change the rubber lines to braided extended stainless ones from Slee.
Completely flushed the fluid with synthetic.
New rotors and drums from Napa.
Toyota brake pads and shoes. (Don't settle for anything else)
Adjust the LSPV to my liking.

Now the brakes lock up and stop better than our LX 470.

So if anyone thinks the 80's brakes suck, I will definitely agree before I performed the above changes. Now they are awesome!

 

[RichElliott]

The stock brakes are really not too great with our rigs. Helps to have upgraded performance rotors (Vented, slotted, etc), and upgraded pads. Some guys put the larger fj-100 series pads in for more braking surface. These upgrades help a bunch, but you still never stop on a dime.

 

[kidglove13]

They do suck but I have locked up my 37's on pavement
Not pretty but i did
And I have drum brakes in the rear
You might have to take a look at your brakes

 

[Dini]

My '93 brakes are ok, but nothing special. Of course, I drive everything like I stole it so I have never really had brakes that can handle the fury.

 

[Sc0-]

Once i got all 8 pistons in my front calipers working I was impressed with the OEM brakes and OEM pads, first time I was able to lock up my brakes since I bought my truck. (7 out of 8 pistons were seized)

 

[Itchy Sides]

Meh, they're not horrible for the tanks they stop, but, the 100 pads are on my to-do list.

 

[peteinpeb]

yep

For a 2.5 ton car they stink. Upgrading brake lines, rotors and pads means that stock they stink. You have to remember that these cars were built with older technology and arent gonna perform like a new car with ABS. But that is why we love them

 

[SiRaDuDe]

1. Do you have a LIFT? (How much)
2. Have you adjusted your LSPV?
3. What size tires are you using.
4. Have you maintained (raplaced) the brake fluid?

If 1.yes and 2.no, you might be braking with mainly the front only... which will make it that much harder to stop.

#3. the more rotational mass, the harder it will also be to stop, compound that by and non-adjusted LSPV and you start going down a grim road...

#4. a contaminated brake fluid (water) ususally looks really dark, once HOT could cause air (boiling water) making it that much harder to stop...

 

[Frankencruiser]

If you have everything in good working order the brakes on these trucks are excellent. I can easily lock up the brakes on mine on any surface.

 

[jasheehan]

I recently put new OEM rotors on the front and back with 100 series pads on the front and they are wonderful. I haven't driven with a load, but there is a significant difference with the new setup. I have a '95, so I'm not sure if your front calipers take 100 series pads. Someone else can chime in. If you do go to 100 series pads, you'll need to either get new rotors or pull yours and have them turned. It's an easy job either way.

 

[Ebag333]

The stock brakes are really not too great with our rigs.

My '93 brakes are ok, but nothing special.

Meh, they're not horrible for the tanks they stop

For a 2.5 ton car they stink. Upgrading brake lines, rotors and pads means that stock they stink. You have to remember that these cars were built with older technology and arent gonna perform like a new car with ABS. But that is why we love them

Dunno what's wrong with all of your trucks, but both of mine stop great (even with the uber heavy 37's stops well).

Granted, it took replacing some calipers and tons of bleeding.

The list below doesn't include earlier 80's with rear drum (vs disk) brakes, but well maintained brakes should stop just fine either way.

Here is some brake data that I have collected, it’s not directly comparable, temp, surface, test method, etc come into play, but gives a good idea of performance trends. Most of the groups are from the same source, so comparable. Note the ’96 Models group, the ’80 did better than vehicles weighing 1/2 ton less, I would call that “best in class” and the ‘80’s performance compares very well overall to other tested vehicles.

Note that most vehicles with well designed brakes group closely by weight. This is true because; if the brake system is capable of producing ~95% of tire skid, brake performance becomes a game of coefficient of friction (tire traction) and to a lesser extent mass in motion (rig weight). So in the end of the game it comes down to tire construction, compound, inflation, etc, a hard compound, over inflated tire will break loose, not stop as fast as a softer, properly inflated tire.

Braking Distance (60-0 mph):

1996 LX450 … 136
1997 LX450 ... 132
1998 Toyota Landcruiser … 140
2003 GX470 ... 131
2003 LX470 … 134
2005 Toyota Landcruiser … 135
FJ Cruiser ... 126

Some 1994 Models
Toyota Landcruiser … 136
Plymouth Voyager … 137
Pontiac Trans Sport … 145
Honda Passport … 141

1996 Acura NSX … 128

Some 2000 Models
Cadillac Eldorado ESC … 131
Lexus LS400 … 131
Infiniti Q45 … 137
4Runner LTD V6 4WD … 138
Lincoln Continental … 139
Nissan Pathfinder 4WD … 141
Jeep Cherokee 4WD … 145
Ford Explorer LTD 4WD … 148
GMC Jimmy SLE 4WD …150
Isuzu Rodeo LS 4WD … 156

Some 2004 Trucks
Ford F150 Super Cab 4WD … 147
Nissan Titan Crew Cab 4WD … 137
Toyota Tundra Double Cab 4WD … 139

2006 Government Police tests;
Charger 3.5 V6 … 130
Charger Hemi … 131
Impala V6 … 142
Ford Crown Victoria … 143
Explorer 4.6 V8 … 150
Expedition 5.4 V8 … 143
Tahoe 5.3 V8 … 145
Dodge Magnum V6 … 128

2007
Toyota FJ Cruiser Auto 4WD … 123
Nissan Xterra Off-Road Auto 4WD … 127

 

[Everett80]

My '93 has some of the best brakes I've driven with, I like them better than my late model duramax work truck... I have 35" tires on the Cruiser, but do have slotted and drilled rotors on the front.

 

[LINUS]

I'll add to the list of "things to do" - rebuild the calipers, all 4 of them - until you get them off & cycled to see all the pistons working, you won't believe the amount of crud that builds in the piston backside area where it's supposed to just be fluid in a closed system.
And, once you have the calipers off, you might as well rebuild them as the kits are dirt cheap & you'll have new dust skirts on what are 15 year old calipers, at the newest.

I just have the Slee braided line kit, new 100 series fr pads, newer rotors all the way around, 80 rr pads, the rebuilt calipers, and the fluid is 2 yrs old & I can get my ABS to kick the pedal back at me no problem on wet pavement.

And my LSPV is set right for my lift - you don't mention if you have a lift in your OP.

 

[homey]

Wow, I am amazed as to how quickly, and how many responses I've received already. This place ROCKS!!

So, someone asked a couple questions about my truck. It's a 1991 with 185,000 miles on it. It's not lifted but it does have some 17" FJ Cruiser wheels on it and the tires are about 28". I haven't actually touched the truck myself yet, all the work has been completed by Sierra Expeditions. They looked through the whole thing the week I bought it and gave it a clean bill of health (after a few small repairs). They told me the brakes were fine and that I'm probably just use to driving with a new German-car braking system. This being said, I am pretty sure they didn't take anything apart to see if the front calipers had any locking pistons.

Looks like a brake overhaul, and some hose replacements, may be in my future!

 

[Tools R Us]

None of these things will do anything to improve brake performance, stopping distance, over stock parts in good condition, at least for how an '80 should be driven: 100 pads, increase pad life, no performance improvement and can't be used on the early calipers. Braided hose will make a firmer pedal, no performance improvement, even if they are from Slee. Slotted, drilled, etc, rotors, no performance improvement.

As others have said, fluid changes are the of the most overlooked items. But if the event was only stopping from 25mph, I doubt that is your issue.

The '91 & '92 rigs are somewhat crippled in the brake department compared to the later rigs. The rear drums don't help, but not that big of a deal on a single, short panic stop. The bigger deal is the front rotors, they are smaller than the later rigs. The #1 improvement in brake performance that you can do is larger diameter rotors.

 

[homey]

Tools, do you know of any rotor kits that'll work for getting the larger on the '91? On my mountain bike it's a pretty easy conversion but I'm assuming LC braking system is more involved then bicycle technology...

I have 17" rims so i should be able to get some fairly large rotors squeezed in there, but I don't know where to start for upgrading.

 

[Tools R Us]

The later model stuff will fit.

 

[Ozdunc]

^ What he said.

Homey, do a search for the complete upgrade details but the front discs and calipers from a 93+ a quite a bit bigger than the 90-92 models

Cheers
Duncan

 

[jonheld]

I have a 91 and I recently went through my brake system. The truck stops now. It's a long read, but lots of info:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/542262-good-brakes.html
All rubber lines have been replaced over the years with OEM rubber. I don't buy into that SS braid crap. All calipers/rotors/shoes/drums are stock OEM. I usually buy OEM front pads, but someone on here turned me on to EBC GreenStuff pads. I'm on my second set and they seem to be OK.

Rear drums require regular use of the handbrake to keep in adjustment and the setting of the LSPV on a lifted truck can get tricky. I like more rear bias than can be achieved with the standard ajustment methods.

Any vacuum leaks from the EGR system on your motor can have a profound effect on brakes. Make sure all that's working well. Old parts fail over time and clog vacuum lines.

Bottom line, you need to look into a 21 year old brake system and get it working correctly befor saying things like "80s brakes suck". They really don't.