Brakes for 35s (1 Viewer)

[VooDoo2]

Rear only? I haven't investigated at all, is the rear significantly undersized compared to the front (i.e. more than typical for weight transfer)? Or do they also have a front full kit? I poked around their site but didn't see anything.

Stock brakes pass ESC and GVM testing upto 4495kg. In some cases, 4495kg towing and 4495kg GVM with a simple pad change. If you want to do this kind of test repeatedly then additional cooling is needed. Fronts seem to work fine with the 354mm roor but rears fade faster. Braking upgrades here in AU seem to focus on GVM and towing upgrades, not racing. We rarely see 20" wheels here either so ensuring brakes fit the 18" rims seems to be more a priority and bigger brakes for "looks" isnt something ppl realy care about here.

 

[Willy beamin]

I've been running frozen rotors and hawk LTZ pads, on all 4 corners, for years - never an issue stopping. If you go cheap on brakes you're an idiot
oh and the TRD pads suck - save your coin

 

[linuxgod]

Stock brakes pass ESC and GVM testing upto 4495kg. In some cases, 4495kg towing and 4495kg GVM with a simple pad change. If you want to do this kind of test repeatedly then additional looking is needed. Fronts seem to work fine with the 354mm roor but rears fade faster. Braking upgrades here in AU seem to focus on GVM and towing upgrades, not racing. We rarely see 20" wheels here either so ensuring brakes fit the 18" rims seems to be more a priority and bigger brakes for "looks" isnt something ppl realy care about here.

What suspension and other changes will get you to 4495kg? I've only seen the Lovell's GVM upgrade which was to 3800kg.

 

[scott johnson]

Rotors were pretty bad and I was getting some pulsating. Especially towing so I went ahead and replaced the rotors and pads with the Power Stop heavy duty Ones. Drilled and slotted with their pads. The front worked out perfectly and I’m impressed with how they feel. Back not so much. The rotors they sent for the back rubbed on the backing plates and I couldn’t use them. I am using the ceramic pads all the way around though. Waiting to hear back from power stop for a replacement set of rotors for the rear.

 

[TeCKis300]

Enjoying the hearty brake discussion. Lots of great points in here.

I find a mild pad upgrade just right for 33s. Even towing up to the gross combined weight rating of 14,645 lbs. As mentioned by @linuxgod, they can be a bit grabby and noisy at low speeds but it's a worthwhile trade to regain the bite and friction lost with larger tires, and extended heat capacity.

A bit of a tangent...

I just drove down the Grapevine on the 5 fwy fully laden with trailer in tow. A windy steep and notorious grade with overheated pads scent from big rigs always in the air. This is a route I've traversed many times with the same trailer and setup. What made a HUGE difference this time was re-gearing. The 10% gained engine braking leverage when towing on the upper end made a game changer of this steep and long downhill grade. Previously, it was 2nd gear, with spaced out firm brake applications to keep a ~50mph speed in check. 2nd gear will now hold all day by itself. What a difference to downhill confidence and stability, without needing to manage any runaway train feeling. Note I am on 33s, resulting in a ~7% gearing loss vs stock. I'm now at a 3% gearing advantage with 4.3s vs stock. I'd imagine this is how a factory "tow package" gearing would feel if there were one. For anyone on big tires and built heavy, I can't recommend re-gearing enough. Engine braking has infinite braking capacity. Brake pads, no matter how good, have a thermal limit.

 

[Artie]

Enjoying the hearty brake discussion. Lots of great points in here.

I find a mild pad upgrade just right for 33s. Even towing up to the gross combined weight rating of 14,645 lbs. As mentioned by @linuxgod, they can be a bit grabby and noisy at low speeds but it's a worthwhile trade to regain the bite and friction lost with larger tires, and extended heat capacity.

A bit of a tangent...

I just drove down the Grapevine on the 5 fwy fully laden with trailer in tow. This is a route I've traversed many times with the same trailer and setup. What made a HUGE difference this time was re-gearing. The 10% gained engine braking leverage when towing on the upper end made a game changer of this steep and long downhill grade. Previously, it was 2nd gear, with spaced out firm brake applications to keep a ~50mpg speed in check. 2nd gear will now hold all day by itself. What a difference to downhill confidence and stability, without needing to manage any runaway train feeling. Note I am on 33s, resulting in a ~7% gearing loss vs stock. I'm now at a 3% gearing advantage vs stock. I'd imagine this is how a factory "tow package" gearing would feel if there were one. For anyone on big tires and built heavy, I can't recommend re-gearing enough. Engine braking has infinite braking capacity. Brake pads, no matter how good, have a thermal limit.

Excellent point on braking, there is more to it than the pads and rotors.

 

[VooDoo2]

What suspension and other changes will get you to 4495kg? I've only seen the Lovell's GVM upgrade which was to 3800kg.

there are many options for GVM here. Lovells is pretty harsh. VERY heavy spring, very basic shock. I run a Kings 3.0 setup and 4200kg GVM but there are a few others that are pushing things further. Most 44956/4495kg GVM/towing options include a new diff housing and conversion to a dual cab

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I think @Taco2Cruiser did something to his booster on his 200 to improve responsiveness, but I can't recall what or if it helped. Maybe he'll see this and chime in. I'd be willing to try and make adjustments, if it's easily reversible.

I did but it’s not easily reversible. Honestly, probably cheaper to buy a new master cylinder/booster if you wanted to do it. That said, I think most people will kill someone if they try it. It requires opening up a certain hole an incredibly small amount and very few here are skilled enough to do modification, much less are a certified mechanic who knows their way around those critical components. Plus there’s the need to truly know how to remove and disassemble the unit itself. I mentioned it, then got a lot of PMs about it, and after talking to some people about it. Realized that I would cause a terrible problem if I did a how to, when someone get tired from the long process and tries to just “get it done” with common tools.

I did do a 60-0 test between old pads and disks on my ‘11, new OE pads and frozen disks, new Hawk LTS, and new pads and disks on a ‘18 (all the same ‘18s newer OE tires.)

They all stopped under 5’ of each other. I did my modification to my MC and stopped the shortest but it was negligible.

I think there is only so hard you can slow a tire on a big lumbering 200 before it wants to loose grip. And at that point the ABS will take over. Also, a lot of people switch to a different pad/disk and say how much better it is. Of course, but I bet it’s that it’s new, not different. It’s a enthusiast forum, so we like to tinker, but I don’t see how anyone here can qualifiable say that a different brake combo actually stops you shorter.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that the factory booster setup will stop you as fast as possible. They just don’t grab hard under normal driving to save brake life. The newest cruisers also have spongy brakes. I’ve gotten in a 2014 I did cryo disks and new OE pads for a test drive, and then did it in a 2020 and they both suck when going down the hill from the shop. Stop and go, the 2016+ “feels better” but it doesn’t stop shorter. It is sacrificing brake life for driver happiness.

People who have had both, have probably had more worn brakes on their 2008-2015 then get a 2016+ with newer brakes.

@TeCKis300. So you know, a 8 speed won’t stop a 200 faster than a 6 speed. The trans doesn’t drop down to any lower gear, even though 1st gear would be the only one to make a difference, under any type of braking situation. Even if it did, the ration is so small that it wouldn’t matter.

Also, I haven't seen a 2016+ stop shorter that a 2008-2015. It just feels like it grabs harder, sooner at really low speeds. Where I see the 2008-2015 brakes grabbing just as hard, but slightly more pedal travel is needed to tap into that. But then again, I hear a lot of people say their 2016+ brakes cause vibration very early as 2008-2015 don’t as much. The ‘18 I have daily access to vibrated with 20k on the clock and a quick spin on my balancer showed it had a ton of runout. But my ‘11 got to 110k before it they were shot. And that was 68k of city driving by the hard on cars previous owner.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

deleted

 

[TeCKis300]

Got the rig on a cat scale today. 14,920 lbs worth of combined rig, with my young family of 4 inside (~400 lbs of people).

My 200-series itself is not built particularly heavy as I try maintain its capacity for payload and towing. Largest adders being 33" tires, 12.5 gallon LRA aux tank. Trailer is right under 8,000lbs laden.

I started this thread as I wanted to see what people out there w ere doing for brakes as I prepare to do 35s. While needing to make sure I have all the performance and safety necessary to tow on the upper end, past the rated GCWR capacity. Pretty sure I'll be upgrading to Tundra brakes when I make the jump to 35s.

While the 8-speed may not emergency brake particularly shorter, their bigger brakes no doubt have incrementally better feel and capacity. The 8-speed surely has more ratios, both lower and higher than the 6-speed, allowing one to really dial in the right gear for grades. Yet after putting another 400-miles towing today, I couldn't be more happy with the 4.3 gears. As I don't tow all the time, I don't want to overly bias my rig for heavy loads so these were the right balance for my mixed towing and unladen use.

Anyone that made the jump to Tundra brakes have feedback?

 

[Jeriel Guerrero]

I opted for the Stoptech 6 piston ST60 kit. I belive its a 380mm rotor as well. It has served me well when towing my track car up and down california. Never had an issue with brake fade but i may not be at the limit of towing either. It was also on sale at a ridiculous price, so it was only right.
I am using the pads that came with the kit, im a bit unsure of what compound, but i may switch to a heavier duty pad when the time comes.

 

[linuxgod]

I opted for the Stoptech 6 piston ST60 kit. I belive its a 380mm rotor as well. It has served me well when towing my track car up and down california. Never had an issue with brake fade but i may not be at the limit of towing either. It was also on sale at a ridiculous price, so it was only right.
I am using the pads that came with the kit, im a bit unsure of what compound, but i may switch to a heavier duty pad when the time comes.

View attachment 2397734

Any idea if that would fit the factory 18" wheels? If so that could be a good upgrade. I'm on 17s now so I suspect it wouldn't fit though.

 

[linuxgod]

I did but it’s not easily reversible. Honestly, probably cheaper to buy a new master cylinder/booster if you wanted to do it. That said, I think most people will kill someone if they try it. It requires opening up a certain hole an incredibly small amount and very few here are skilled enough to do modification, much less are a certified mechanic who knows their way around those critical components. Plus there’s the need to truly know how to remove and disassemble the unit itself. I mentioned it, then got a lot of PMs about it, and after talking to some people about it. Realized that I would cause a terrible problem if I did a how to, when someone get tired from the long process and tries to just “get it done” with common tools.

I did do a 60-0 test between old pads and disks on my ‘11, new OE pads and frozen disks, new Hawk LTS, and new pads and disks on a ‘18 (all the same ‘18s newer OE tires.)

They all stopped under 5’ of each other. I did my modification to my MC and stopped the shortest but it was negligible.

I think there is only so hard you can slow a tire on a big lumbering 200 before it wants to loose grip. And at that point the ABS will take over. Also, a lot of people switch to a different pad/disk and say how much better it is. Of course, but I bet it’s that it’s new, not different. It’s a enthusiast forum, so we like to tinker, but I don’t see how anyone here can qualifiable say that a different brake combo actually stops you shorter.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that the factory booster setup will stop you as fast as possible. They just don’t grab hard under normal driving to save brake life. The newest cruisers also have spongy brakes. I’ve gotten in a 2014 I did cryo disks and new OE pads for a test drive, and then did it in a 2020 and they both suck when going down the hill from the shop. Stop and go, the 2016+ “feels better” but it doesn’t stop shorter. It is sacrificing brake life for driver happiness.

People who have had both, have probably had more worn brakes on their 2008-2015 then get a 2016+ with newer brakes.

@TeCKis300. So you know, a 8 speed won’t stop a 200 faster than a 6 speed. The trans doesn’t drop down to any lower gear, even though 1st gear would be the only one to make a difference, under any type of braking situation. Even if it did, the ration is so small that it wouldn’t matter.

Also, I haven't seen a 2016+ stop shorter that a 2008-2015. It just feels like it grabs harder, sooner at really low speeds. Where I see the 2008-2015 brakes grabbing just as hard, but slightly more pedal travel is needed to tap into that. But then again, I hear a lot of people say their 2016+ brakes cause vibration very early as 2008-2015 don’t as much. The ‘18 I have daily access to vibrated with 20k on the clock and a quick spin on my balancer showed it had a ton of runout. But my ‘11 got to 110k before it they were shot. And that was 68k of city driving by the hard on cars previous owner.

Thanks, that's helpful and actually really good to know (and I understand why you wouldn't want to encourage people to do this if they don't know what they're done)

 

[Hants]

Just got our ‘20 back from Slee - amongst other things upgraded to DBA rotors and pads. Did this due to 34’s and we’ll be towing 5K+ lb trailer regularly (In addition to full armor, lift, drawers, aux tank).

Definitely more “grippy/stoppy” on the road (having to re-train my foot).

As others have noted, hearing a bit of brake singing at low speed and more dust (already).

Went out to test the new setup on a local trail (Eagle Rock & Saran Wrap)... very challenging to left-foot brake smoothly because the brakes are so grippy.

I don’t recall a similar issue with the upgraded brakes on our LX450.

 

[chiplee]

Just did DBA's all around since I went to 34's and will be towing. 4.88's, exhaust, intake and tuner are next. Word of warning, Slee didn't appear to have them in stock and part numbers were mixed up at several sites, which resulted in a return to tirerack, who still has the wrong number on their website. 2017 uses DBA42724S ($186 each on amazon) on the front and DBA42723S on the back ($143 each). I used their SD610 pads. Feels amazing, and I love that they're pre-burnished for simple bed in. Full disclosure, I've been suffering with warped rotors for a while, so it was going to be easy to impress me. Can confirm the initial bite is real, but I love it and find it very easy to modulate. Just a new muscle memory that won't take long.

 

[chiplee]

Got the rig on a cat scale today. 14,920 lbs worth of combined rig, with my young family of 4 inside (~400 lbs of people).

My 200-series itself is not built particularly heavy as I try maintain its capacity for payload and towing. Largest adders being 33" tires, 12.5 gallon LRA aux tank. Trailer is right under 8,000lbs laden.

I started this thread as I wanted to see what people out there w ere doing for brakes as I prepare to do 35s. While needing to make sure I have all the performance and safety necessary to tow on the upper end, past the rated GCWR capacity. Pretty sure I'll be upgrading to Tundra brakes when I make the jump to 35s.

While the 8-speed may not emergency brake particularly shorter, their bigger brakes no doubt have incrementally better feel and capacity. The 8-speed surely has more ratios, both lower and higher than the 6-speed, allowing one to really dial in the right gear for grades. Yet after putting another 400-miles towing today, I couldn't be more happy with the 4.3 gears. As I don't tow all the time, I don't want to overly bias my rig for heavy loads so these were the right balance for my mixed towing and unladen use.

Anyone that made the jump to Tundra brakes have feedback?

Have you posted any more details about the re-gear anywhere. Don't want to clobber this thread, but I'm about to order 4.88's since I'm towing on 34's and will end up on 35's. Stock is 3.31 on the 8 speeds though, right? I recognize 4.88 is a big change.

 

[linuxgod]

Have you posted any more details about the re-gear anywhere. Don't want to clobber this thread, but I'm about to order 4.88's since I'm towing on 34's and will end up on 35's. Stock is 3.31 on the 8 speeds though, right? I recognize 4.88 is a big change.

@TeCKis300 went to 4.30 gears but he has the 6 speed. If you're on the 8 speed you want a set of 3.90's from a 2015 or earlier LC. You only want 4.88s if you have the 6 speed, unless you're hoping to climb a tree in 1st gear with your cruiser...

 

[Hants]

... and redline the tach at freeway speeds...

We went with 3.9’s (8 speed) and the 34’s... drives well on the freeway and off-road. Don’t have the aux tank or trailer yet, so can’t speak to that configuration.

Accelerometer (butt) says about the same accelerating up hills and on the flats, even with the extra weight, crappier aerodynamics and higher rolling mass. Mileage has dipped though (physics rules!).

 

[chiplee]

@TeCKis300 went to 4.30 gears but he has the 6 speed. If you're on the 8 speed you want a set of 3.90's from a 2015 or earlier LC. You only want 4.88s if you have the 6 speed, unless you're hoping to climb a tree in 1st gear with your cruiser...

I was thinking more wheelies and 4 wheel smoky burnouts, but climbing trees is fun, too.

 

[chiplee]

... and redline the tach at freeway speeds...

We went with 3.9’s (8 speed) and the 34’s... drives well on the freeway and off-road. Don’t have the aux tank or trailer yet, so can’t speak to that configuration.

Accelerometer (butt) says about the same accelerating up hills and on the flats, even with the extra weight, crappier aerodynamics and higher rolling mass. Mileage has dipped though (physics rules!).

4.88's should be closer to 2400rpm at 75mph in 8th with 35's, but I get it. It's low. What would 3.90's be, more like 2k rpm at 75, 4.30's 2150'ish, all on 35s? Haven't used a calculator or anything.