Brakes for 35s

TeCKis300

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Starting another thread as this topic was discussed elsewhere but really deserves its own.

What have you done for brakes with larger 34s and 35s?

Upgraded pads is definitely a requirement for big tires. 33s feel great with upgraded pads. I suspect brakes will come up a bit short with 35s which is why I'm asking as towing with 14k lbs of combined rig makes brakes a wee bit important. I don't mind the increased service requirements as that's the trade for these things.

Part of the reason for my recent re-gear is also to address braking, but with the engine. There are situations with 8%+ grade where second gear and 33s, that there is not enough engine braking. Riding the brakes creates a potentially dangerous situation. As much as I want to try 36s, I think 35s is where I will take things because of towing.

Braking capacity is where the 16+ cruisers, with their upsized brakes and 8-speed trannies shine.

There is the wildcard of a Tundra brake upgrade for pre-2016 cruisers. I may do this depending on how braking performance works out. This is the best thread I could find so I know it's possible, but wish there was a more concise guide. Anyone?

STOP, collaborate and listen.....Tundra brake swap | IH8MUD Forum
 
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dubyahard

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The big tires are part of the reason I use trailer brakes for much lighter trailers than what you're hauling.
 
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If you have an LX and roll 20s there are a lot of 4-pot high performance options. If you have 18s or 17s your options are limited.

I've considered swapping in 16+ brakes into my 2013 since they are slightly improved. But I don't think it's huge.

FWIW anecdotally I didn't notice a stopping difference in 34s vs stock 31s when not towing. There may be one, I just don't perceive it.

I went with Centric HD fleet pads and cryo-treated Stop Tech slotted rotors when I replaced my brakes at ~90k. They were a cost-effective replacement option. Stopping feels the same normally... maybe a bit better when using the brakes a lot when towing (i.e. when low gear just isn't enough) but it's marginal improvement, not night and day. The HD pads do make a LOT of creaking and groaning noise if they drag any (slowly lifting off the brakes from a stop, for instance) and they make a LOT of dust, compared to OEM ceramic pads.
 

Mogwai

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I just start to brake sooner :cool:

No but in all seriousness, I notice the added braking distance going from ~33" ATs to 34" MTs. I would love larger brakes, but it would have to be a substantial vs marginal improvement and I just don't think there is room w/ 17s/18s.
 

bloc

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I added up the cost of parts to do a true 16+ swap, which means knuckles, calipers, lots of big ticket parts. IIRC the cost was well over $3k. Tundra brakes get you all the same extra leverage and larger rotor, only with the same size caliper mounting hardware that we have stock. Obviously buying used this would be much cheaper. Even if you went new OEM not having to buy knuckles would make this much cheaper.

I will likely do this with my next brake job and the plan is to go tundra calipers and modify them in the way bjowett suggests to use the original 200-series lines and banjo fitting.

But I am interested in any info people find on this.
I might be able to dig up the parts list for a true 16+ swap if anyone were interested.
 

Moby

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@TeCKis300 I think that I remember seeing that you have other performance cars so you probably already know all these.... but setting aside big upgrades little things can help or at least are worth consideration.

Brake fluid. I ran TLC "Monster" calipers (made by SSBC) on my FJ-62. I want to say 4x40mm pistons? It's been awhile and they aren't made any more. Much bigger than stock and a big upgrade... until I boiled the fluid on a very steep low speed down hill and had to use the handbrake. Switching to Super Blue fluid solved that and makes it real easy to alternate with their clear version so you can tell when all the old fluid is out during flushes (seems trivial but super helpful). Ever since then on all may cars/trucks I've been a stickler for regular brake fluid flushes for both performance and safety. With the loads you tow fluid seems super critical. I'd put the best non track dry/wet boiling point in I could find (not up on current options and even at the time Super Blue wasn't absolute best for street fluid but pretty close, reasonably priced, and again, alternating colors for ease of service).

I have mixed feelings on stainless lines. They felt better (pedal feel) than stock but I've never seen data as to whether they actually increase performance. If I were trying to get everything out of a brake system I'd probably do them though.

Load sensing proportioning valve, if we have one and if a lift is involved. I had to fabricate a repositioning bracket to restore the stock ratio in my FJ-62 with 2.5" lift or it was too biased to front and the rears weren't contributing enough. Big difference, big help. Not sure if we have these on 200s or if there is better tech these days but worth looking into if there is any form of dynamic proportioning going on that a lift would screw with.
 
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I was going to switch over to NAPA Ractive One rotors when I do end up needing them. I use those on my dodge diesel and they work great. I also use them on my jeep diesel. Both have over sized tires.
Currently I'm using the TRD pads and they are really dusty. They work good but put heavy dust on the wheels weekly.
 

terdrocket

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I run 34's (285/75/17)
I went full EBC kit front and rear, rotors and pads, from Summit.
Very happy with the feel and performance.
 
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I had considered the Tundra swap as well as a 16+ swap in. As @bloc points out the full 16+ swap is pricey. If you need new calipers then that might be a time to do it, but otherwise it's a lot of $ for what is likely just a small improvement.

I did my brakes last spring. Ordered from mrtmotorsports.net. They're a MUD sponsor, IIRC and whenever I've PMed for anything they always have the best price I can find anywhere delivered (winch, brakes, lights, etc). I did flush the brake system, btw, but I just picked up brake fluid locally for that.

1596631683979.png


FWIW I've found if you seriously get on the brakes the LC has a lot of stopping power available. IMO Toyota tuned the MC/brake booster for a soft stop around town and not for hard duty, which is why we all feel like the brakes suck. I notice it mostly when towing, as the proportional braking controllers don't account for that, so light braking without downshifting feels like I'm not getting enough braking force but if I downshift I will feel like I'm getting a little too much. It's particularly noticeable to me when I pull up to a traffic light when towing as I can tell the brake booster is vacuum-controlled and each downshift will surge the brakes a bit. It's somewhat subtle and I don't think my wife notices though.
 

Moby

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Pedders will be releasing rear brake upgrade (Calipers, rotor and pads) for the 07-2020 models soon. I have a set on my 200 for testing and so far, pretty impressed
Rear only? I haven't investigated at all, is the rear significantly undersized compared to the front (i.e. more than typical for weight transfer)? Or do they also have a front full kit? I poked around their site but didn't see anything.
 
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I had considered the Tundra swap as well as a 16+ swap in. As @bloc points out the full 16+ swap is pricey. If you need new calipers then that might be a time to do it, but otherwise it's a lot of $ for what is likely just a small improvement.

I did my brakes last spring. Ordered from mrtmotorsports.net. They're a MUD sponsor, IIRC and whenever I've PMed for anything they always have the best price I can find anywhere delivered (winch, brakes, lights, etc). I did flush the brake system, btw, but I just picked up brake fluid locally for that.

View attachment 2394275

FWIW I've found if you seriously get on the brakes the LC has a lot of stopping power available. IMO Toyota tuned the MC/brake booster for a soft stop around town and not for hard duty, which is why we all feel like the brakes suck. I notice it mostly when towing, as the proportional braking controllers don't account for that, so light braking without downshifting feels like I'm not getting enough braking force but if I downshift I will feel like I'm getting a little too much. It's particularly noticeable to me when I pull up to a traffic light when towing as I can tell the brake booster is vacuum-controlled and each downshift will surge the brakes a bit. It's somewhat subtle and I don't think my wife notices though.
I'd second that- for LCDC one of the nights we were heading back to camp and had a deer dart in front of us- wife was driving home and hit the brakes hard, she commented on the brake assist kicking in and how quickly it stopped. This was on 33s with stock brakes. Around town, completely agree that it doesn't stop quite as quick, but I think I've just gotten used to it.
 

Hants

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On my 80, I had the brake booster adjusted to be more assertive. Made the difference (on 33’s) from foot to floor significant slow down, to foot mostly to floor howling tires and nose dive (huge difference on dry pavement).

I wonder if there is a similar adjustment on the 200’s? IIRC, it involved dismounting the booster from the firewall and adjusting a nut/screw that is not normally accessible.

Had the PCS (If that’s the name of the system - panic stop initiated by radar) kick in on our first road trip. Crazy fast response time, and crazy short stopping distance. Felt like shorter than what can be achieved by my foot alone.

We’ll be towing a heavy trailer, on 34’s, on steep grades, with our 200. Slee is upgrading ours to DBA rotors & pads. Worked great on our 80... hopefully it is enough on the 200.
 
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I think @Taco2Cruiser did something to his booster on his 200 to improve responsiveness, but I can't recall what or if it helped. Maybe he'll see this and chime in. I'd be willing to try and make adjustments, if it's easily reversible.

The boost on the 200 is definitely NOT linear (and NOT grabby at first), and I think that's the source of the perception that the brakes suck. My old Acura MDX had much better brake feel (initial bite) with stock brakes even compared to a stock LC on 31s. But the flip side is that if you pressed them a bit too hard you'd really feel it, and I think Toyota was tuning the brake setup for plush comfort, not for sport driving.

I've had PCS kick in when a flat bed truck cut me off on the highway last year. I was towing and even with 6000# behind me everything locked up (truck and trailer) and I went from 70 to about 30 real f*cking quick. In this case it wasn't actually an emergency - the PCS radar detected the truck as an "imminent collision" (which it wasn't... he was going roughly my speed) but because I hopped off the throttle it assumed it was an emergency and pre-loaded the brakes, hence the "panic" stop.
 
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Possibly a dumb question, but would upgrading/modifying the stock brake set up on a 570 or cruiser with crawl control adversely effect the functionality?
 
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Possibly a dumb question, but would upgrading/modifying the stock brake set up on a 570 or cruiser with crawl control adversely effect the functionality?
Probably not. Tire size doesn't seem to adversely affect it. I suspect brake changes wouldn't really as well, though if you upgraded the rear brakes but not the front you might have some brake bias issues. Certainly the radar cruise control seems to still work just fine even when I'm pulling a 3 ton trailer, and I expect that has much more to compensate for than a small brake improvement. As for CRAWL I believe it relies on the wheel speed sensors to detect spin and simply applies the brakes to stop it. I don't think CRAWL tries to modulate the brake to slow the wheels... just more of a binary on/off thing.

Side note: If you do a lift and level the vehicle (removing the front-to-rear rake) there's a procedure to reset the PCS/ABS/etc systems. If the system could be impacted by stronger braking I'd expect Toyota to have a "tuning" procedure for that as well.
 

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