Brake fluid replacement

Rookie2

Rookie2

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I couldn't seem to find anything in the FSM about how to drain and refill the brake fluid. Seems like I've seen something on this before, but couldn't find it using search. Does anyone recall seeing a procedure/discussion on this?

Thanks,
Rookie2
 
C

cruiserman

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I usually use a baster to get some out of the master, and fill with new. Keep the master filled while you bleed out of each wheel.
 
sjcruiser

sjcruiser

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IIRC, the FSM specified bleeding sequence: LSPV, RR, LR, RF, LF. Ofcourse, suck out the old fluid & refill the master cylinder reservoire as cruiserman sugguested first.

Frank.
 
Rookie2

Rookie2

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Is this all the info. there is to go by for a first timer at this?? I'd hate to rear-end somebody because I bunged up the job.

Thanks,
Rookie2
 
RavenTai

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are you familiar with bleeding brakes on other vehicles? only thing different from any other vehicle is the added bleeder screw at the LSPV,

give this a read, only thing I do differently is I clean up brake fluid with a water hose as brake fluid is water soluble and rinses away, brake fluid will strip paint right off if left on for long, make sure the system is sealed up before hosing as brake fluid will absorb the water raising it freezing point and lower its boiling point both can render brakes inoperative

http://www.drivewerks.com/tech/mult_bleed_brakes2.htm
 
Beowulf

Beowulf

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Frank,

>> LSPV, RR, LR, RF, LF. <<

The '97 FSM (pg BR-5) is vague on where the LSPV comes in the sequence. It states that the master cylinder should be done first if necessary (disassembly or drained reservoir), followed by "the brake caliper with the longest hydraulic line." Obviously, this differs for LH and RH drive vehicles. The FSM goes on to specify that the procedure is repeated for each "wheel" implying the LSPV is not in the initial sequence. If I were to vary from the below recommendation then I would bleed the LSPV between the 2 rears.

Most people interpret the sequence as: RR, LR, RF, LF, LSPV

I don't think the sequence is as important as the quality of the work.
-B-
 
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R

Rich

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I agree the manual is not clearly written. A literal intrepretation of what is written in the manual is to bleed the proportioning valve repeatedly after each caliper is bled.

Using stuff laying around the garage I built a pressure bleeder and pushed a couple of quarts of new fluid through the system. I bled the proportioning valve after each rear wheel.

If anybody is inclined to regularly flush their brakes http://www.4x4wire.com/reviews/motive_bleeder/installation.jpg looks interesting.
 
turbocruiser

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Well, I bled my brakes on the cruiser for the first time using my Motive Products Power Bleeder (PB). Some impressions:
1. I've bled brakes on two other vehicles using the PB and although all the results were the same, I felt much more comfortable using the PB on these other vehicles because the brake fluid reservoirs were designed for screw on plastic caps as opposed to the squeezed on rubber 'hat' that the cruisers and runners and minis use. The reason I was more comfortable was that with the screw on cap there is no force applied to the plastic reservoir piece. With the PB's "Universal" fitting, it seemed like there was a lot of downward force applied to the reservoir. When I first fit the universal fitting, I tightened the wing nuts slightly and tested the seal by pumping the recommended 10psi with a dry PB chamber. After developing less than 6psi, the cap popped off. Tightened some more, 8psi, the cap popped off. Tightened some more, 10psi but at this point I saw that the plastic reservoir piece was somewhat squated and that was a worrying thing to me.
2. I wonder what pressure would work best for the bleeding process; I tried to bleed with 10psi thinking that since the seal on the cap stood the 10psi dry test, it would hold for the actual bleeding, and it did, but, at 10psi there is not enough pressure to force the fluid out of the system at the bleeder screws. So I went to 15psi and it worked but worked slowly! Then I went to 18psi and it worked and worked relatively rapidly. I was not able to find any facts from factory service manual on what the recommended and/or max pressure would be, I hope I did not exceed it but anything lower than 15 is such a pain in the posterior to work through.
3. Once everything was set just so, I quickly flushed over two quarts of fresh synthetic fluid through the system! With the pressure method, there is almost no worry whatsoever about air entering the system. Even if a bleeder screw is opened so much that it starts to spread the fluid past the threads, there is no introduction of air. In fact, in my case, I really screwed up one of the bleeder screws and attempted to replace it with a speedbleeder that I got at the store. Although the speed bleeder was the correct M10x1.0, it was not long enough and so even when seated fully, it would still allow fluid through when the brakes were touched. So I had to then again remove and replace two bleeder screws. In this case, lowering the pressure to about 10psi was enough to have a small amount of fluid constantly come out of the open bleeder screw socket and so even while screwing in the other screw, still no air introduction into the system. Still, this is why the second quart of fluid was flushed through - just to make sure - safety first.
After all the process was finished and tested, I would have to say that the results are wonderful with the PB. It makes the method a one man job. It makes the method much more fool proof. And, since its so simple to flush the fluid, you can really flush til the stuff comes out clean clean clean. Another advantage is that with the old assistant pedal pump method, the seals are pushed into areas that they normally do not travel through and I have heard that this can cause damage to them. Not sure but in any case, with the PB, the seals are still and so no chance for damage to them. I just wish that the reservoir used a screw on cap, that would take the worry right out of the equation. Anyways, hope this helps someone considering the PB! For those going to Moab, first I'm jealous, and second, safe wheelin!!!
 
RavenTai

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[quote author=turbocruiser link=board=2;threadid=15142;start=msg144944#msg144944 date=1082907786]
Another advantage is that with the old assistant pedal pump method, the seals are pushed into areas that they normally do not travel through and I have heard that this can cause damage to them. [/quote]

I have seen this twice on two separate Tacoma's bled the brakes and then the MC fails, from what I understand the bore of the MC gets junk in it that damages the piston seals when they travel over

I think i am going to have to get one of those PB's is there one that would fit any better than the motive? can you hook in a compressed air source to it? (regulated down of course)

When I bought it the fluid was very dark, recently bled standard way and the fluid darkend again very quickly (sludge/junk in the sys?) need to do it again
 
turbocruiser

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[quote author=RavenTai link=board=2;threadid=15142;start=msg145036#msg145036 date=1082933345]

I think i am going to have to get one of those PB's is there one that would fit any better than the motive? can you hook in a compressed air source to it? (regulated down of course)

[/quote]

I'm not sure of any other power bleeders that would have any other way of connecting to the reservoir. Since the toyotas use those squeeze on rubber hats, everything out there would work on mechanical force to hold down whatever the power bleeder uses to introduce the pressurized brake fluid. I'm sure the reservoir is sturdy, its just that I was worrying about the force it took to hold that universal adaptor on. As far as hooking up an air source, I guess as long as the pressure was lower than 20psi, it would be fine, in fact, it would work well cause you would not have to pump up the pressure between calipers. I'm wondering what the max safe pressure is to use to bleed the system; the PB recommends no more than 20 but I was not getting any good results until I was at around 15 to 18 psi. Seems close to the limit? Anyone know?
 
RavenTai

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Everything after the piston in the MC is rated for at least 1,500 PSI, only thing to worry about is how much pressure the reservoir can handle, 20 PSI seams reasonable to me, as the reservoir ages and becomes brittle that may change? If it cannot handle it in the future maybe it is time for a new reservoir
 
turbocruiser

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[quote author=RavenTai link=board=2;threadid=15142;start=msg145079#msg145079 date=1082942930]
Everything after the piston in the MC is rated for at least 1,500 PSI, only thing to worry about is how much pressure the reservoir can handle, 20 PSI seams reasonable to me, as the reservoir ages and becomes brittle that may change? If it cannot handle it in the future maybe it is time for a new reservoir
[/quote]

Yea but man o man what a mess that would make; say the reservoir pops at fifteen pounds - kapowy, all of a sudden there is brake fluid everywhere, you really must rinse everything extremely well right away but you also really must avoid spraying any water into the now open master cyliner for fear of ruining that as well. I'd hate to have that happen! I suppose that is the primary reason for dry testing the thing prior to putting the fluid through the system; hopefully if the reservoir was going to fail, it would fail with the test. In reality its probably simple to predict if the reservoir would fail simply by looking at it; if its brittle, I would siphon off the fluid, replace the reservoir and go with the process with renewed confidence. HTH
 
RavenTai

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[quote author=turbocruiser link=board=2;threadid=15142;start=msg145091#msg145091 date=1082944792]
Yea but man o man what a mess that would make; say the reservoir pops at fifteen pounds - kapowy, all of a sudden there is brake fluid everywhere, you really must rinse everything extremely well right away but you also really must avoid spraying any water into the now open master cyliner for fear of ruining that as well. I'd hate to have that happen! I suppose that is the primary reason for dry testing the thing prior to putting the fluid through the system; hopefully if the reservoir was going to fail, it would fail with the test. In reality its probably simple to predict if the reservoir would fail simply by looking at it; if its brittle, I would siphon off the fluid, replace the reservoir and go with the process with renewed confidence. HTH
[/quote]

sounds like a good plan :)
 
turbocruiser

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[quote author=LandCruiserPhil link=board=2;threadid=15142;start=msg145194#msg145194 date=1082955328]
Thanks for thread and info. I order my Motive Power Bleeder

Found the American model on Apex Performance shipped for 63.95
[/quote]

I'm not 100% sure but I do not think that the model you ordered will work with all your vehicles; you need the one labeled as "Universal" not the "American" one for the 80series at least. Not sure about the other two cruisers you have; not sure what was stock on those for the reservoir and also not sure if at some point you did not do a brake conversion or something, but, I think that the "American" power bleeder is going to be incompatible. There is a Motive Products Power Bleeder that comes with both the "American" adaptor and the "Universal" adaptor and it is about ten dollars more so that would be the way to go if in fact you have that American style reservoir on something. Just hoping to help. Take Care.
 
LandCruiserPhil

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[quote author=turbocruiser link=board=2;threadid=15142;start=msg145291#msg145291 date=1082983051]
I'm not 100% sure but I do not think that the model you ordered will work with all your vehicles; you need the one labeled as "Universal" not the "American" one for the 80series at least. Not sure about the other two cruisers you have; not sure what was stock on those for the reservoir and also not sure if at some point you did not do a brake conversion or something, but, I think that the "American" power bleeder is going to be incompatible. There is a Motive Products Power Bleeder that comes with both the "American" adaptor and the "Universal" adaptor and it is about ten dollars more so that would be the way to go if in fact you have that American style reservoir on something. Just hoping to help. Take Care.
[/quote]

Before I order I checked the application guide
http://www.motiveproducts.com/12appl.html
The American kit comes with 1101 and 1105 adapter
The Universal comes with only 1101 adapter
It shows the 1101 adapter fitting all Toyotas and the 1105 for older GM vehicles.
If it does not work someone is getting a call.

Phil
 
turbocruiser

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Yes the 1101 adaptor will work. I was not aware that the "American" package came with two adaptors but the 1101 will work on all Toyotas. BTW, do the older LC's come with another style of reservoir or did you do a conversion?
 

Docmallory

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Just wanted to bump this thread and say that I bought the Motive Power Bleeder to do my 80's brakes. Got the 1101 Universal kit (the cheapest one) and it worked great. Everybody who does their own brakes needs one of these things. I think I'll give 'em as Christmas gifts this year....

And don't be tempted to buy the MightyVac suction bleeder thing. It sucks, literally and figuratively.
 
turbocruiser

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Docmallory said:
And don't be tempted to buy the MightyVac suction bleeder thing. It sucks, literally and figuratively.


I agree, I also have a vacuum bleeder that I purchased prior to purchasing the pressure bleeder. I hate, absolutely hate, using a vacuum bleeder; it is so much slower and you are not able to tell the source of the air bubbles in the lines - a lot of the time the bubbles are coming from around the bleeder screw since the suction is applied there - makes it really hard to know when to stop bleeding. The pressure bleeder is so much more managable.
 

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