Trying to get my first FJ40 (1967) on the road after a 2.5 year frame off. We have done everything ourselves but now struggling to get the brakes bled............not sure why, and needs an exhaust system. Anyone know anyone in the western MA area that is good with either of these for an FJ40? Thanks
Brake and exhaust help
- Thread starter Dadsfj40
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yodafrick
Cruiserhead
Stock? Front and Rear wheel cylinders? Or disc front? Adjusted out so the shoes were scuffing the drum before installing? May just be they aren’t grabbing when you hit the pedal?
Like josh mentioned, recheck your wheel cylinder adjustment. Also check master cylinder pushrod adjustment and make sure you don’t have air in it. The early single cylinder masters can be a pain to get the air out sometimes.
- Thread starter
- #4
Thanks;
Drums all around, rebuilt the cylinders. Just swapped to a dual master when the original started leaking into the car. I have " bench bled" the master while in the FJ. I will check the shoe/drum contact but think its ok.
Drums all around, rebuilt the cylinders. Just swapped to a dual master when the original started leaking into the car. I have " bench bled" the master while in the FJ. I will check the shoe/drum contact but think its ok.
- Thread starter
- #5
Still need help!!!!! this is driving me crazy. I adjusted the push rod and the cylinders. Bench bleed the new dual master cylinder many times, found few drum cylinders with minimal leak so just replaced all 8 cylinders with new SOR parts and bled about 1.5 gallons through with both pump and hold; and one person prime with bottle with one way valve techniques. No change pedal still pushes to floor. One thing that's odd is that with the new cylinders, when bleeding the fluid leaks out by the threads of the bleeder screw, in addition to thru the center. Another thing is that the 2 circuit MC I have (1974) has outlets on top and 2 holes on bottom that hold the pressure sensors that I dont have, so they are plugged with 1/8 British pipe thread plugs that don't leak. any ideas? Not sure what to do next, not sure where the problem is. Thanks for any ideas.
fourlow&go
@ the speed of plaid
If one of your bleeders is weeping fluid it is sucking in air as well, it will never bleed. Also, just because the master is new does not mean it's good, I've had two brand new ones that were bad out of the box in the last year. One had a ripped seal and the other was assembled wrong. Both bench bled fine but wouldn't develop pressure.
Eight slave cylinders takes a lot of fluid to operate, the shoes need to be adjusted just so and it's easy to miss one which will take up a lot of the MC travel.
I've played this game many times with drum brakes and quite frankly...it's a lousy design!
Eight slave cylinders takes a lot of fluid to operate, the shoes need to be adjusted just so and it's easy to miss one which will take up a lot of the MC travel.
I've played this game many times with drum brakes and quite frankly...it's a lousy design!
Bench bleeding means 'on the bench'. The pedal won't fully plunge the piston on an installed master cylinder so you're always left with a pocket of air. Sometimes, over time, this will resolve itself.
You can smear grease around the bleed screw to help with air being sucked in.
You can smear grease around the bleed screw to help with air being sucked in.
- Thread starter
- #8
First off Thanks for all help past and future. I have continued to spend all my time on this brake venture. New things I tried: With the ports located on top of the MC and the lines going vertical and looping down, my son mentioned that the top of the loop maybe should be below the top of the reservoir, so we re bent them so the arcs were below....no change. We then expanded the shoes so they were contacting the drums well so the wheel would only spin about one turn or a little less.....that helped a little with firming the pedal but it would still go to the floor. I was very excited about my incorrect bench bleeding but after removing and bleeding it in a vice many times at different angles and tapping it.......no change. After reinstalling the MC we bled the brakes many times and saw no air in the fluid. there was some resistance in the pedal and pushing it would stop the wheels so you could not turn them (like before) (up on jack stands) but it would still go to the floor with moderate pressure. Now in desperation we have increased the pushrod throw into the MC so there is no pedal slack prior to contacting the MC. The pedal is better and mostly stops half way down. With bleeding the reservoir level still drops so I dont think I went past the ports, and with foot off, the wheels still spin about the same. Is this OK, or am I just getting crazy with time. I'm ready to cut a hole in the floor and use the Fred Flinstone method. (sorry for the long response)
fourlow&go
@ the speed of plaid
Which MC are you using? If I remember correctly the early 40s used a 15/16" bore, it may be it's not moving enough volume for eight wheel cylinders?
Going to the floor, without any bubbles during bleeding leads me to believe the MC is either insufficient or faulty.
Going to the floor, without any bubbles during bleeding leads me to believe the MC is either insufficient or faulty.
fourlow&go
@ the speed of plaid
ETA
A friend tells me '74 had a 1 1/4" bore Master Cylinder.
A friend tells me '74 had a 1 1/4" bore Master Cylinder.
- Thread starter
- #11
Not sure of the bore on the newer 2 reservoir MC (75-80) I put in, but here it is Brake Master Cylinder FJ40, FJ45, FJ55, BJ 1975-1980. I assume that it works well since when I plugged the 2 outbound ports the pedal was a rock not moving at all. The cylinder appears to be bigger than the original single circuit. several things I've wondered: Could that one not be working since it was used on FJs with discs, and would the earlier 1970-75 version be better since it was used on Drums? Not sure why that would make a difference. Here is that earlier one 70-75 Brake Master Cylinder FJ40, FJ45, FJ55 1970-1975
Another theory that I was presented with was that it could be the flexible lines (mine are original and seem really hard) could be stretched inside, and balloon out when the pedal is pushed causing a spongy pedal with no air. Should they be replaced if they are hard anyway?
We did finally get it running and took it for a quick drive on the street (first time since we tore it apart), fun but the brakes were still soft. no Quick stops.
Another theory that I was presented with was that it could be the flexible lines (mine are original and seem really hard) could be stretched inside, and balloon out when the pedal is pushed causing a spongy pedal with no air. Should they be replaced if they are hard anyway?
We did finally get it running and took it for a quick drive on the street (first time since we tore it apart), fun but the brakes were still soft. no Quick stops.
You are not the first to curse bleeding the brakes on a 40 or 55. Even with just rear drums, it is a pain.
I assume all brake lines were checked for leaks and you started bleeding the brakes farthest from the master cylinder.
The hard lines can develop pin hole leaks that can suck in air.
As stated earlier, adjustment is key. With 4 drums, have all wheels off the ground and adjust all 4 before bleeding the farthest wheel first. Don't forget to pump the pedal during the adjustment to center the brake shoes. Haynes recommends only a half turn on the bleeder valve.
While I have not had much luck with reverse bleeders, you may want to pick one up from your local auto parts store and give it a try.
Good luck.
I assume all brake lines were checked for leaks and you started bleeding the brakes farthest from the master cylinder.
The hard lines can develop pin hole leaks that can suck in air.
As stated earlier, adjustment is key. With 4 drums, have all wheels off the ground and adjust all 4 before bleeding the farthest wheel first. Don't forget to pump the pedal during the adjustment to center the brake shoes. Haynes recommends only a half turn on the bleeder valve.
While I have not had much luck with reverse bleeders, you may want to pick one up from your local auto parts store and give it a try.
Good luck.
- Thread starter
- #13
I have a vacuum bleeder I'm going to try, I'm going to try replacing the flexible lines. I'll report back
- Thread starter
- #14
Well I replaced all the flexible lines........no change. Then I tried vacuum bleeding and it did not work that well based on the bleeder screws leaking at the threads when opened. ( the grease helped on some of them) Still no change. So in an effort to try something I extended the plunger into the MC about 1/2 an inch until it increased the friction on the drums. (they had slight drag on them pedal off) I was surprised it could go that far in without doing something. So now the pedal does not hit the floor but its close and the brakes are mush when tried on the road close to home. At this point I have replaced it all and feel stronger that the MC is faulty (as several have mentioned) and am trying to get the seller to replace it and maybe try one for 70 instead of 75 since they still had drums in 70. I'll let you know.
Maybe try one for 71-75 since pre 1970 used a single circuit master and post 1975 were disc.
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- #16
Still having issues, FJ is on the road but brakes are soft, it will stop but I need some room, cant lock them up, tried one LAST time to bleed again after replacing everything and still soft, Hate going to a mechanic but cant spend any more time on these brakes. I'm in the Springfield MA area and wondering if anyone knows someone in this area that is familiar with FJs, does brakes and is trustworthy. One of the first times out driving we drove by a green fj40 in our town (Longmeadow)........ what are the odds. Here is a pic from one of our first outings.
Hi,
Was the proportional valve replaced?
Maybe someone mentioned it above, I didn't read the post.
Was the proportional valve replaced?
Maybe someone mentioned it above, I didn't read the post.
- Thread starter
- #18
No, as a 67 it started with a single system and I upgraded it to a 2 reservoir/ cylinder master and do not have a proportioning valve since front and back are separate. Should I have one, and would that cause the inability to get the system to work?
fourlow&go
@ the speed of plaid
PM sent
I personally would pick a year as far as brake design goes and build the truck out with that system. As an example, I have an early 1980 truck that had 2 cylinder drum rears and disk front brakes. I installed single cylinder drum rears from a late 1980 for the rear e-brake option. So I just installed Toyota's design for that setup. That meant a different proportioning valve and master cylinder. Brakes work fine.
Toyota did all the heavy lifting when it comes to their brake designs, so mimic one of those that you feel is compatible with your truck and run with it. There is a lot to consider when putting together a brake system. Just dropping in a newer / different master cylinder doesn't always mean it's better or will even work properly.
Toyota did all the heavy lifting when it comes to their brake designs, so mimic one of those that you feel is compatible with your truck and run with it. There is a lot to consider when putting together a brake system. Just dropping in a newer / different master cylinder doesn't always mean it's better or will even work properly.
