BP-51 questions

[KLF]

Well this discussion makes me feel a little better, knowing I'm not the only person. Apparently there's a "leaning Cruiser" club, and I'm a member.

I'd be more upset, if the truck didn't ride so much better now. So I guess it's worth it. It's no Porsche, but it sure feels planted on even the bumpiest roads.

 

[bloc]

@bloc that would be great. I havent been able to find the part number for just the bushing in this image. I came across part 48830-60050 which is for the whole stanilizer link assmebly but has an MSRP of +$400 yikes

View attachment 2810401

The part with the arrow is actually a ball joint and built into the arm. The rubber part you see is just a boot to keep dirt and mud out. The two bushings in front of it can be sourced/replaced and are what I have already.

I haven’t looked closely to see whether the ball joint can be pressed out.. will be a few days before the rain lets up and I can do that. Or had the bar off the arm to see if there is any play. We might be able to get under there with a pry bar and try to manipulate it.. either way I can’t imagine there being much movement without it coming apart, and all this does is impact the sway bars. Not like it is controlling wheel alignment or anything.

 

[empty80]

The part with the arrow is actually a ball joint and built into the arm. The rubber part you see is just a boot to keep dirt and mud out. The two bushings in front of it can be sourced/replaced and are what I have already.

I haven’t looked closely to see whether the ball joint can be pressed out.. will be a few days before the rain let’s up and I can do that. Or had the bar off the arm to see if there is any play. We might be able to get under there with a pry bar and try to manipulate it.. either way I can’t imagine there being much movement without it coming apart, and all this does is impact the sway bars. Not like it is controlling wheel alignment or anything.

I agree with @linuxgod. He's spot on. After messing with every kdss trick known to man I added trim packers but with minimal results. I couldnt get my lean below 3/4" . Frustrating to say the least as my lean was to the opposite side that most others experience. I ultimately swapped rear springs ( so the taller spring is on the driver side). This leveled things out perfectly with my Tough Dog lift kit.

@empty80 I am going to look into replacing the bushing in that arm you mentioned which could possibly be bound. Mine looks much more worn and degraged. I wonder if that area is known for causing a rear lean or inbalance with a worn bushing.

FWIW, There is a variant out of Australia that is designed to accommodate geometry changes on lifted trucks. It can be found here.

I only took interest in this components after separating the sway bar during regearing. My dynamic dampener was pushed as far forward as it could pivot. After manual manipulation, it started pivoting fore and aft again as the bar articulated up and down. The lean changed, so I opened the valves and I got the “whoosh” and droop.

All that said, my assumption is that all the low-hanging fruit (spring location, weight balanced, etc) has been picked. And to build on the every cruiser has a lean, every cruiser has its own personality too.

 

[TLC2013]

The part with the arrow is actually a ball joint and built into the arm. The rubber part you see is just a boot to keep dirt and mud out. The two bushings in front of it can be sourced/replaced and are what I have already.

I haven’t looked closely to see whether the ball joint can be pressed out.. will be a few days before the rain let’s up and I can do that. Or had the bar off the arm to see if there is any play. We might be able to get under there with a pry bar and try to manipulate it.. either way I can’t imagine there being much movement without it coming apart, and all this does is impact the sway bars. Not like it is controlling wheel alignment or anything.

Good to know, thanks for the details. Ill get underneath and scope things out and see how those bushings look.

 

[Angelo1]

2 questions for bp-51 owners. What height lift are you at? I am purchasing an LC with Bp-51 and it’s currently at the 2” lift mark. My previous lc was closer to 3” on Icon set. Am I being silly to have it increased another 1/2”? It’s riding on 285/70/18 and eventually will put on 295/70/18 when the current set wears out. Advantage or disadvantage of going up another 1/2” This is not my expertise by any stretch. Also, is having 1/4” lean on one side pretty typical and unnoticeable in rear or should I ask to have the kdss adjusted a little more. It currently 38 1/2” from floor to fender edge in front and 39” in rear. What are you guys at on your lifts? Thanks

 

[linuxgod]

2 questions for bp-51 owners. What height lift are you at? I am purchasing an LC with Bp-51 and it’s currently at the 2” lift mark. My previous lc was closer to 3” on Icon set. Am I being silly to have it increased another 1/2”? It’s riding on 285/70/18 and eventually will put on 295/70/18 when the current set wears out. Advantage or disadvantage of going up another 1/2” This is not my expertise by any stretch. Also, is having 1/4” lean on one side pretty typical and unnoticeable in rear or should I ask to have the kdss adjusted a little more. It currently 38 1/2” from floor to fender edge in front and 39” in rear. What are you guys at on your lifts? Thanks

With 1/2" is considered normal according to the Toyota FSM. That said if the rear isn't even you can add trim packers to one of the rear springs to get the height even. Note that when you park your butt in the vehicle, or depending on if you have a full or empty tank of gas, the height may change a bit on either side, so just because it's level when parked doesn't mean it's level when you're driving it.

More lift won't really help with tire clearance. If you want to fit wider and/or taller tires you need the KDSS relo kit, the right tire offset, an aftermarket UCA, and the right alignment settings. Sometimes a BMC and/or remote reservoir relocation might be required as well. Also as you go taller you put more wear on the CVs which might eventually necessitate a diff drop kit (or more frequent CV "maintenance").

 

[Angelo1]

With 1/2" is considered normal according to the Toyota FSM. That said if the rear isn't even you can add trim packers to one of the rear springs to get the height even. Note that when you park your butt in the vehicle, or depending on if you have a full or empty tank of gas, the height may change a bit on either side, so just because it's level when parked doesn't mean it's level when you're driving it.

More lift won't really help with tire clearance. If you want to fit wider and/or taller tires you need the KDSS relo kit, the right tire offset, an aftermarket UCA, and the right alignment settings. Sometimes a BMC and/or remote reservoir relocation might be required as well. Also as you go taller you put more wear on the CVs which might eventually necessitate a diff drop kit (or more frequent CV "maintenance").

Thanks for the details. I won’t mess with adjusting the kdss. It’s a 1/4” higher on the rear passenger. A trim packer might be the way to go for the driver side. Hopefully it’s not a big expensive process. Am incorrect in thinking if I am 190lbs driving alone that the drivers side rear will drop a little more or am I simply not heavy enough to make any bit of difference.

 

[KLF]

Thanks for the details. I won’t mess with adjusting the kdss. It’s a 1/4” higher on the rear passenger. A trim packer might be the way to go for the driver side. Hopefully it’s not a big expensive process. Am incorrect in thinking if I am 190lbs driving alone that the drivers side rear will drop a little more or am I simply not heavy enough to make any bit of difference.

I wish mine was within 1/4"... I'm more like 1-1/2" higher on the passenger side.

I wouldn't even try to get rid of 1/4"

 

[TLC2013]

I wish mine was within 1/4"... I'm more like 1-1/2" higher on the passenger side.

I wouldn't even try to get rid of 1/4"

Have you tried swapping rear springs? I was in your same boat and no matter what kdss witch craft techniques I tried and adding an assortment of trim packers I could not get under 1" of lean (passenher side higher). Putting the longer spring (tough dog lift) on the driver side now has me level or within 1/4" depending on fuel load.

 

[KLF]

Have you tried swapping rear springs? I was in your same boat and no matter what kdss witch craft techniques I tried and adding an assortment of trim packers I could not get under 1" of lean (passenher side higher). Putting the longer spring (tough dog lift) on the driver side now has me level or within 1/4" depending on fuel load.

I've decided that the rear 2721 springs aren't heavy enough, so in the spring I'm gonna order the next level up and try to solve the lean at that point.

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks for the details. I won’t mess with adjusting the kdss. It’s a 1/4” higher on the rear passenger. A trim packer might be the way to go for the driver side. Hopefully it’s not a big expensive process. Am incorrect in thinking if I am 190lbs driving alone that the drivers side rear will drop a little more or am I simply not heavy enough to make any bit of difference.

Yeah a 5mm trim packer should do it. I wouldn't expect it to take more than an hour to add

The KDSS relo doesn't really touch the KDSS, it just moves the front sway bar about an inch forward so your tires don't catch on the KDSS arm on the driver's side or on the sway bar on the passenger's side.

 

[Fisher23]

I wish mine was within 1/4"... I'm more like 1-1/2" higher on the passenger side.

I wouldn't even try to get rid of 1/4"

That sounds like you have the rear springs reversed left <-> right. The springs sort of look the same but the right and left springs are different weight heights and they are labeled.

The distance from my fender to the center of the rear axel is 23".
This is with 2724 springs, 40 gallons fuel, arb drawers with gear in them, fridge, and rear arb bumper.
There is some thread or spread sheet on lift heights.

 

[Tommy Dwyer]

I've decided that the rear 2721 springs aren't heavy enough, so in the spring I'm gonna order the next level up and try to solve the lean at that point.

I have 2722’s in the rear. The right (passenger) side spring is 440mm, driver side is 430mm. I installed an ARB 10mm trim packer on the drivers side….and leveled right up.

 

[KLF]

That sounds like you have the rear springs reversed left <-> right. The springs sort of look the same but the right and left springs are different weight heights and they are labeled.

The distance from my fender to the center of the rear axel is 23".
This is with 2724 springs, 40 gallons fuel, arb drawers with gear in them, fridge, and rear arb bumper.
There is some thread or spread sheet on lift heights.

I am 100% certain the springs are installed correctly. I called ARB just to clarify which way they go, then carefully marked them so I wouldn't mix them up.

 

[Last200]

I’m having BP-51s installed next week and I’m getting nervous. I was hoping to level the rake with 2” of lift in the front and 0.75” in the back using 2722s (drawers and fridge). But no bumpers so I want the preload set at 10mm. Am I still going to level out? Like how much lift should I expect in the front? I don’t want to look like a stink bug.

I also got the 10mm coil spring packer, should I just put it in under the shorter spring first, or wait and see if I level out left to right?

 

[bloc]

Rear springs aren’t that expensive. Might be worth trying 2721s then install 2722s and sell the 21s when you get the bumper installed.

But other people with more experience than me should chime in. I just remember reading 2722s can make a big difference in back.

 

[kcjaz]

Be careful with leveling the truck and eliminating the rake. I had the same goal and ended up dead level with empty truck. Loaded I had the saggin wagon. I have a TJM front bumper (w/o winch at that time) and stock rear bumper and no drawers. I was at 20 mm preload on the front and 2771s on the rear. That achieved dead level but when I put the couple hundred pounds of gear in the back I sagged. I considered stiffer springs in the rear but was advised by Slee that probably really wouldn’t fix my issue. The variable spring rate of the 2721s is great provides a nice ride and stiffens up as you load the truck. I would recommend sticking with those springs rather than the heavier ones for where you’re at now.

The fix to my situation was really either lower the preload on the front or add spacers to the rear. I chose to add 30 mm spacers on the rear because I liked where the front lift was.

IMO, there is no accurate way to know where you will end up. In your situation with stock front bumper and stock rear bumper and you probably want less than 20 mm preload. 10 mm is probably a good place to start. Taking the front coils on and off to adjust preload is a bit of a pain but can be done if you want to dial it in. IMO, Adding spacers to the rear is pretty simple and you can dial that in after you get it all installed to get whatever level or rake you want. After my initial install I actually took weights and put them in the rear and measured the deflection or squat I got for every hundred pounds. I figured I needed about 20 mm to get level with 400 pounds but could only find 30 mm spacers. In the end I’m very happy with where my truck sets. I got over my desire for level and just live with a 30 mm rake empty which is never and a slight rake when typically loaded. Now I’m adding a dissent rear bumper and we’ll see where I end up.

I would also not add a 10 mm spacer to one side to fix your anticipated lien yet. Just see where you end up and then adjust. I did do the KDSS leveling adjustment which is much debated but in my case it worked with equal spacers on each side. The rear of my truck is within an 8th inch side to side and has been since I did the adjustment about two years ago.

 

[Last200]

Be careful with leveling the truck and eliminating the rake. I had the same goal and ended up dead level with empty truck. Loaded I had the saggin wagon. I have a TJM front bumper (w/o winch at that time) and stock rear bumper and no drawers. I was at 20 mm preload on the front and 2771s on the rear. That achieved dead level but when I put the couple hundred pounds of gear in the back I sagged. I considered stiffer springs in the rear but was advised by Slee that probably really wouldn’t fix my issue. The variable spring rate of the 2721s is great provides a nice ride and stiffens up as you load the truck. I would recommend sticking with those springs rather than the heavier ones for where you’re at now.

The fix to my situation was really either lower the preload on the front or add spacers to the rear. I chose to add 30 mm spacers on the rear because I liked where the front lift was.

IMO, there is no accurate way to know where you will end up. In your situation with stock front bumper and stock rear bumper and you probably want less than 20 mm preload. 10 mm is probably a good place to start. Taking the front coils on and off to adjust preload is a bit of a pain but can be done if you want to dial it in. IMO, Adding spacers to the rear is pretty simple and you can dial that in after you get it all installed to get whatever level or rake you want. After my initial install I actually took weights and put them in the rear and measured the deflection or squat I got for every hundred pounds. I figured I needed about 20 mm to get level with 400 pounds but could only find 30 mm spacers. In the end I’m very happy with where my truck sets. I got over my desire for level and just live with a 30 mm rake empty which is never and a slight rake when typically loaded. Now I’m adding a dissent rear bumper and we’ll see where I end up.

I would also not add a 10 mm spacer to one side to fix your anticipated lien yet. Just see where you end up and then adjust. I did do the KDSS leveling adjustment which is much debated but in my case it worked with equal spacers on each side. The rear of my truck is within an 8th inch side to side and has been since I did the

That’s good advice. Thank you. I figure I’ll have to get it installed and then tune from there with any spacers. The 2722 vs 2721 is still the great debate. I’m afraid with drawers, fridge, and all our gear, we will easily be overloaded. And I had future plans for a rear bumper, so I guess I’ll have to wait and see how it rides and where it sits.

 

[KLF]

Does anybody have any recommendations for alignment specs with the BP-51 installed?

I had mine aligned to factory specs right after the install last Fall, but it still doesn't "feel" right to me. Very heavy steering, and I swear I can feel something almost binding if I take a sharp tight turn, like in a parking lot. Tires aren't wearing odd so I've been tolerating it. I'm gonna have it re-aligned next week at a different shop, and the tech asked me for the post-lift specs to use. He said they will be different and the non-lifted factory specs are not a good idea.

 

[NoClue]

Binding might be your tires contacting your KDSS arm on the driver side