Bizarre Issue with a '76 FJ40 - Help is appreciated!

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spotcruiser said:
Hey, I didn't notice the earlier mention that the engine died on you previously. But thinking about that and the fact that it won't turn over right now made me think of something. Are you sure the engine turns over freely? Are you sure that the engine is not so tight that the starter cannot turn it over?

About 10 years ago, some friends and I were doing some "death wheeling" in an area called Rimrock and we were running down a trail that ran straight down the mountain side and was at least a 45 degree angle. We were basically doing a controlled slide by feathering the brakes while "standing" on the firewall. Part way down that trail my 2F lost oil pressure and there was no way to stop and do anything about it. That engine idled away for more than an hour, giving me the steering and brakes that I needed, thankfully, but with no oil pressure on the gauge the whole time. I got to the bottom of the trail, crossed a stream, pulled up onto a gravel road and the engine started to sound a little "muffled". I put in the clutch and the engine went silent. The bearings were toasted from all that idling with no oil pressure.

So I ask, are you sure that the engine is not tougher to turn over than it should be? Did you have the distributor out of the engine shortly before it died and perhaps didn't get the oil pump slot lined up properly when the distributor was reinstalled? Just a thought.
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Good thought, but no. I made certain that the oil pump slot was in the proper position prior to reinserting the dizzy. The motor has good oil pressure. I reiterate, I have successfully started the motor with this starter. This issue seems to be intermittent. I was able to conquer once with the replacement of the battery and cable from the battery to the starter.
 
It would have to be bound up in some way that affected the cam. The cam drives the distributor shaft, which drives the oil pump. I guess you could pull the distributor and attempt to crank it over.

Is it the stock dizzy? I know there's been issues with modified GM dizzys in the past. Maybe it's binding because the dizzy is not fully inserted and aligned with the cam gear?

bagochips76 said:
Is it possible that if the distributor is some how bound up in the oil pump that it would prevent the motor from turning?
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spotcruiser said:
It would have to be bound up in some way that affected the cam. The cam drives the distributor shaft, which drives the oil pump. I guess you could pull the distributor and attempt to crank it over.

Is it the stock dizzy? I know there's been issues with modified GM dizzys in the past. Maybe it's binding because the dizzy is not fully inserted and aligned with the cam gear?
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That makes sense. It's a stock dizzy. Although, I can only get it to run with the dizzy slightly pulled out of the hole. Judging on all of the other issues that I have encountered with this truck I guess I really can't rely on the assertion that the person that built the motor knew exactly what they were doing.
 
@spotcruiser Now I'm starting to wonder if the the gear on the camshaft and/or the gear on the dizzy shaft is worn in such a way that it is causing the cam to bind preventing the motor from turning. I'm starting to thing that its time to pull the pan.
 
I had similar problems on my '75. Do you have an after market ignition system, as in a Crane electronic ignition system or are you running the stock points? The older Crane "black box" was prone to failure. I went back to stock and all is well.
 
I'd check the ignition switch and wires going to and from it. Especially, check the start wire going from the switch and starter for loose or bad connections or grounding out. Our boat had the same symptoms, most or the time it would start but periodically it would just click the solenoid. We had just installed the engine and rewired it, along with a known good battery . All the connections were good, clean and tight. We replaced any suspect wires in the engine compartment during the repower. We found loose and butchered wires at the ignition switch, along with connections using wire nuts. We repaired the hack, and all is good. It starts everytime now. We were getting just enuff juice to make the solenoid click but not enuff for the solenoid to make a solid contact and engage the starter.
 
Probably a dumb question but have you TRIED putting a socket on the crankshaft pulley and manually turning over the engine by hand? Leave the distributor in place and everything just like it was. If you can rotate it pretty easily, you've ruled out something being bound up. Just because the engine wasn't frozen up at one point doesn't mean it isn't now.
 
I once installed a mean green starter on a fj60...for some reason it was not seating right and it would not turnover, forget if I added washers to bring it out or if I finally got it seated right, but it drove me nuts for a few hours (should have been a 15 min job)
 
Rock40 said:
Probably a dumb question but have you TRIED putting a socket on the crankshaft pulley and manually turning over the engine by hand? Leave the distributor in place and everything just like it was. If you can rotate it pretty easily, you've ruled out something being bound up. Just because the engine wasn't frozen up at one point doesn't mean it isn't now.
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It's a freshly rebuilt motor. It isn't frozen. I was driving it when it lost power....
 
As mentioned earlier, possible fusible link? I did have a similar issue at one time. It would be running fine then just die. The link was either bad or had a bad connection, I don't remember. I replaced it and had no more problems. Just throwing this out there, because I know how frustrating this must be for you.
 
skidplate said:
As mentioned earlier, possible fusible link? I did have a similar issue at one time. It would be running fine then just die. The link was either bad or had a bad connection, I don't remember. I replaced it and had no more problems. Just throwing this out there, because I know how frustrating this must be for you.
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Thanks for the thought, but no it's not the fusible link.
 
thebigredrocker said:
I see your + cable is new. Are both the ground cables new? If not, you could temporarily clamp a jumper cable to the starter bolt.
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The one from the battery to the frame is not new but I have verified that it is good. The one that I added from the block to the frame is new. It's not a grounding issue.
 
If you cross the battery terminal at the starter solenoid to the small start terminal on solenoid with a screwdriver will the engine turn over?
 
bagochips76 said:
It's a freshly rebuilt motor. It isn't frozen. I was driving it when it lost power....
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Just because it died when you were driving does not mean it isn't frozen up. I'm offering suggestions (as others are) on how to troubleshoot this. Take it or leave it. If you haven't turned the engine over by hand to verify it isn't bound up you simply can't rule it out.
 
I gather you are convinced this isn't a ground issue. Not trying to irritate or disrespect, but how did you verify the old battery negative to frame cable isn't corroded internally. I recently cut open a cable where corrosion was 36" deep.

Also, I see metion of a new frame to block ground. I don't see mention of where on the block. If it's not under the starter bolt, it should be.

Rock40 brings up a valid point to triple check that your engine turns freely. You should be able to put your rig in 4th gear and push it forward or backward by hand.
 
The 76 Fj40 has a stock 2F engine with domed pistons, not flat. The dizzy was semi or full electronic not points and condenser. By what you have said it sounds like you are running a F-155 engine, is the PCV valve on the front of the engine or at the rear? I'm wondering if the person who did the engine interchanged parts from a F and 2F. If the valve train is misaligned it could also cause a lockup, just a thought. First, I'd load test the battery as I have had brand new batteries fail a load test meaning that the voltage looks good but there is a problem with ampacity, if the battery checks out then I'd take my DC clamp-on ammeter and check the current flow of the cable from the battery to the starter, probably also using a remote starting switch. If there is current flow and the starter is good its most likely engine related. I've never tried running a F engine dizzy on a 2F so I don't know if this would cause the need of shimming your dizzy? Trollhole would be one to ask about dizzies, shawnfj40 about engines, bj40green about electrical and pin_head, 65swb45, cruiseroutfit about everything! Good luck!
 
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