Birfield out shaft sticking out too far

[DanStew]

Finished up doing my front axle reseal and rebuild. At the same time i did the Martack in the axles and swapped sides with the outer birfs. Drive side is fine everything is where it should be. On the passenger side the birfield is sticking out past the edge of the spindle about 3/8 farther than normal. I know the tack weld is in the correct location, i did the tack and installed inner shaft and measured checked to see if it is at the correct location on the seal. That was kosher. I installed the birf to shaft and slid it home. I reassembled everything and noticed that when i tried to put the end cap on the axle was sticking out farther than it should. I am trying to think of where i have the play. Probably where the inner shaft inserts to the birf, but is there any other things to check. When i did the rebuild i did not lock my front locker, but everything came out and went in fine. I also didnt reinstall the shields for the disc brakes but that shouldnt matter since it was not part of the spacing of the spindle to the knuckle. I know i will have to go back in the knuckle, just want to see if anyone else had something like this happen to them.

Thanks!

 

[Frankencruiser]

Do your drive flanges match in height? Perhaps you have one old style and one new style birf.

 

[Grench]

Did you put in new bearings too? I would suspect that one or more of the new races isn't quite 'home'.

 

[Tyler93]

what frankencruiser said. Either drive flanges are different heights or birfields are the old/new style. I had the same problem on mine, just bought the appropriate drive flange to match and the 3/8" gap was taken care.

 

[nuclearlemon]

is the inner axle shaft not seated in the diff?

 

[DanStew]

Inner shaft seems to be seated fine. I will do a recheck when i go into it.

I will check the height difference of the flanges. the driver side axle shaft c-clip was right at the spindle edge, no play there.

The wheel bearings are still the same ones, i didnt install new ones. These were in good shape, albeit they have been changed before cause i have different makes, bower, timken and Koyo.

I could tell the axles have been into at some point, One bad thing was the nuts on the driver steering knuckle side were all loose,

Well I will get into it tomorrow and report back. Thanks!!!!!

 

[-Spike-]

The only two conditions that could cause the birf end to stick out too far are either an early drive flange with a late birf, or the inner bushing is missing on the spindle. What's odd is that the dust cap wasn't missing entirely, if indeed you have a mismatched birf/drive flange and were running it that way before.

I suppose you could be missing one of the bearings or races too. Actually I think you'd have to be missing parts of both bearings for that scenario to work. A loose bearing would cause the birf end to be too short, not too long.

 

[DanStew]

I dont know what is worse the tension headache i have or the birfield sticking out.

Here is what i found just now.

The flanges are the same size.

The wheel hubs are the same size. (not sure if they differed from years)

I pulled spindle off and checked birf. the birfield seemed to be sitting in just fine. the tone ring for the ABS was just below and a little behind the sensor. I am not sure what the orientation should be for the tone ring to sensor.

I pulled out birf and the inner shaft was still inside, i checked clearance with axle sealing surface in reference to the inner axle seal. They are where they should be.

I measured the birf. From end to end it was about 9 3/4 inches. I am not sure what the measurements are between early and later birfs.

The axles when pulled out didnt have a clip on the inner shaft right before the birf, but the inside clip was present. Could it be possible to have the longer birf installed and the inner shaft go into the differential farther to compensate for the longer birf? Since i did the martack the inner shaft will not go that far anymore. Does this sound like a possibility?

The axle shaft is exactly 1/4 inch out further than it should be.

time to take some meds to get rid of this headache

thanks

 

[Kernal]

Not sure if this thread will help (you said the drive flanges are the same):

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/478363-why-end-my-birf-sticking-out.html

 

[DanStew]

Thanks. It does help. It does look like i would have a differnt birf since in the reading it will be the spindle that limits the shaft going outward. And with the picture of early and later flanges it looks exactly how much difference i have. I am guessing that is why i had a nasty inner seal leak, cause if the inner shaft was pushed more into the differential then the axle never sealed. I do think for my sanity i am going to measure the other birfield so i know for sure. So it looks like i will need to purchase a new flange.

thanks!!

 

[DanStew]

Here are some pics

I gues you can tell the difference.

 

[Tenzig Norgay]

You definitely have the newer longer birf on the side sticking out. I just measured my older birf, my backup one, and its 9 1/2 inches, 1/4 inch shorter than yours. The solution is a newer style drive flange, about $40, or a new older style birf, about 10 times the price of the flange.

How it got this way, who knows. Maybe the PO replaced one of the birfs with the newer style one, and failed to change the drive flange. I think the newer birfs came out in 95

 

[DanStew]

Thanks. I am glad i could get the measurement confirmed, i really didnt want to pull the other birf. I will search for a flange, definately easier than a new birf.

Thanks!

 

[Grench]

The missing question...

If things are all put together correctly now - using the same flange as was on it before - then where did the PO hide another 1/4" of birfield?

 

[DanStew]

i beleive the 1/4 inch was inside the differential. i did the martack so that is was changed from before. And with the axle properly indexed on the inner seal, and the tackweld on the inner shaft, the axle assembly will not go any further into the 3rd member. The birfield stuck out showing that it was the newer one.

 

[Kernal]

Were the photos above taken before you took everything apart or after you put it all back together?? Did you grease up the spindle bushings and the splines of the birfs before you buttoned everything up?

 

[DanStew]

th3e photos were after it was all put back together. bushings and splines greased.

 

[Grench]

Mmmm - something doesn't feel right. There is no 'extra room' in the diff to push 1/4" of extra axle into.

If it all fit in before it was taken apart, I'm inclined to think that something isn't quite in right when it went back together.

A few places you can get 'extra length' when re-assembling the axle shafts...

Are you 100% certain that you got the snap ring on the shaft inside the birfield's star? That -can- be a bit difficult - and could result in the birfield sitting out 1/4" or more than it should.

Are you 100% certain that the axle half seated properly in the diff? It can be very difficult to get it 'just right' so that it slides home. Did you have any problems seating these?

 

[-Spike-]

Mmmm - something doesn't feel right. There is no 'extra room' in the diff to push 1/4" of extra axle into.

If it all fit in before it was taken apart, I'm inclined to think that something isn't quite in right when it went back together.

A few places you can get 'extra length' when re-assembling the axle shafts...

Are you 100% certain that you got the snap ring on the shaft inside the birfield's star? That -can- be a bit difficult - and could result in the birfield sitting out 1/4" or more than it should.

Are you 100% certain that the axle half seated properly in the diff? It can be very difficult to get it 'just right' so that it slides home. Did you have any problems seating these?

No, none of that stuff can cause the axle stub to stick out. The amount the axle can stick out is dictated by the spindle bushing, the birf rides against it. There is no possible way to force the stub to stick out further than it's supposed to, other than having too long of a stub to begin with, or removing the bushing itself.

 

[DanStew]

I am not using the snap ring anymore in the birf since i did the Martack on the axle shaft.