Best 3B Turbo?

[R2HKS]

Using that calculator a 290hp Garrett GT25 @ 20psi would make 220hp!

Can someone tell me the max safe EGT's to run? I heard it was 1250F

 

[nickw]

Depends if you have your pyro sensor pre turbo or post turbo.
They say a turbo will cool the exhaust about 200 degrees.

Pre turbo they say 1250
Post turbo they say 1050

Cheers,
Nick

 

[Tapage]

What kind of engine run Peter Straub . ? is a Toyota engine .. with those portal axles . ?

Yap 1250 preturbo is the max safe temp .. over it ( for more than X minutes ) yor melt your pistons ..

 

[brownbear]

I don't think you are going to melt your pistons immediately per say on a 3b with high EGTs. Cause I think these things have been running super high for many many years. This most likely why so many find cracked heads.

1250 is safe number. But I wouldn't be surprised if my 3b has seen many 1500-1600 days when it had no pyro and I was pushing up mountains or the previous 20 yrs before I got it.

SO that 1250 rule is a safe rule to help prolong the engine health and life. But these Japanese diesels may not be as critical as the domestic produced diesels. Maybe different alloy comp.

That said I drive with EGTs below 1250. But if I looked down and saw 1400 on long high, I would think I destroyed the eng, I would just back off the throttle.

I think almost all 3b's or 13b-t have seen these higher than 1250 temps. Stone's turbo before he shimmed it back up was something low like 5.5 psi. That would have run super hot on the highways in the mountains. Probably over 1250.


something to think about.

 

[Tapage]

1250 is safe number. But I wouldn't be surprised if my 3b has seen many 1500-1600 days when it had no pyro and I was pushing up mountains or the previous 20 yrs before

I thought the same .. but is good to know not only I'm in this way. I thought before I have pyro maybe I drove my 2H much more than 1250 ºF and off course after overhaull.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

numbers I heard are 1150 with 1250 for no more than a minute or two. Pre trubo...

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

My vote on this again is a little turbo for a cruiser 3B or 3H motor like a 2-2.5 liter gasser turbo -- WASTEGATED. Nothing wrong with the boost coming in early. If it is too much top end (if you are blowing 15-20 psi boost) then adjust the wastegate actuator -- or by a different one. Many are interchangable... That is what I would do IMO...

 

[stasis1]

go for 13bt then wack an intercooler on it you will gain 10ps i think with the intercooler. You will get less headache with the 13bt

 

[R2HKS]

My vote on this again is a little turbo for a cruiser 3B or 3H motor like a 2-2.5 liter gasser turbo -- WASTEGATED. Nothing wrong with the boost coming in early. If it is too much top end (if you are blowing 15-20 psi boost) then adjust the wastegate actuator -- or by a different one. Many are interchangable... That is what I would do IMO...

You mean external wastegate rather than internal? Usually the smaller turbos are all internal wastegates. A wastegate has nothing to do with how early the boost comes in, it only regulates the boost.

External wastegates aren't really necessary on a small turbo.

I want the boost to come in as early as possible so long as it doesn't run out of puff in the top in which may mean buying a small garrett and running higher boost, up to 20psi and intercooled.

Though I'm starting to consider a 13BT now, for the advantage of the better head, DI and lower compression pistons which means a higher boost level can be run, but I will junk the crappy CT26.

 

[lumpy70]

What kind of engine run Peter Straub . ? is a Toyota engine .. with those portal axles . ?

He's running a 3B with an AXT turbo. It hasn't really been trail tested yet since he cranked everything up. He got about a km down the trail and rolled it.

Just a few 53" tire chirping incidents in the parking lot since then.

Craig.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

You mean external wastegate rather than internal? Usually the smaller turbos are all internal wastegates. A wastegate has nothing to do with how early the boost comes in, it only regulates the boost.

External wastegates aren't really necessary on a small turbo.

I want the boost to come in as early as possible so long as it doesn't run out of puff in the top in which may mean buying a small garrett and running higher boost, up to 20psi and intercooled.

Though I'm starting to consider a 13BT now, for the advantage of the better head, DI and lower compression pistons which means a higher boost level can be run, but I will junk the crappy CT26.

They are internal wastegate with external wastegate actuators. Just like a Cummins Holset turbo, just much smaller. Here is a photo of the Cummins trubo. Basically I agree with and am saying everything you are saying in the second paragraph above. And if it is OVERboosting then adjust the wastegate actuator to let off the excess boost where desired. All this sounds very difficult and complicated but it is not at all...

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

example of how adjustments work on this type of turbo. The Saab 2.3 turbo is JUST like this, exept much smaller. I believe it is a Garrett T3 turbo of some sort and lots of muds available for it. I think this would be a great turbo for a 3B and it's where I'd start over an AXT kit for $2G. Unless money was growing on trees for me. We turbo'd my 2H in a weekend (which was probably overkill) using a homebrew trubo we took of a 4L Mitsubishi engine that cracked it's head. Wasn't hard at all. There is something to be said for the exhaust manifold built for the turbo but I don't think it is that mandatory IMO...

 

[R2HKS]

From turbo's on gassers as you would say I know my way around wastegates whether it be internal and external and adjustable wastegate actuators. The GTR I help out on has 2 HKS 2530 turbos with internal wastegates both with adjustable wastegate actuators. The standards don't come with adjustable actuators they were an option. I didn't realise you were talking about adjustable wastegate actuators in your post.

In fact most factory turbo's I have come across don't have adjustable wastegate actuators. They can be made fairly easily though.

I'll be running a boost controller though. I like the flexibility of using as much boost when needed. A dual stage solenoid as well for 2 boost presets and when its off it will be either factory boost unless I have adjusted the actuator. Having said this a turbo with a non adjustable wastegate actuator doesn't really become a problem. As the boost controller can bleed air going to the wastegate to get more boost before the wastegate will open.

The beauty of an adjustable wastegate actuator is you can set the minimum boost though. If say factory boost is 7psi but I wanted min boost 9psi I would adjust the actuator so it opens the wastegate at 9psi which also stops wastegate creep, ie opening the wastegate sooner than it needs to be. Rather than keeping the wastegate at 7psi and using the boost controller to get more boost. Then the boost controller, will take over from 9psi and up. The advantage of doing it this way is you get less of a chance of boost spikes.

That cummins turbo certainly looks good, with a big compressor housing and small turbine housing. I'm not sure if we can get those easily here in Australia. What's the exact model no?

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Wow I mean wow, that was a good read and made me understand wastegates in a different way.

Good tech.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

well we are lucky with the Cummins because they are adjustable. Not that I have ever adjusted it ever, in fact I pulled this housing and ended up trading it for a non wastegated housing. The 4BT is pushing about 25 psi of boost now and has lots of pep of course honestyl I'll have to look at the saab closer to see if the actuator is adjustable on that one. I thought of it as not a big deal either because of a boost controller (worst case resort) but the Saab opens at about 13 psi I blieve (I'll have to check) stock whihc I think should be perfect for a 3B if you ask me. One thing that did strike me though today looking at it again is that it is small. Damn small. But again maybe that is not an issue and in fact possibly a good thing...

Anyway, Cummins cronology is pretty easy. They are all holset turbos....

in the states...
through 1993 they were H1C turbos, small compressor wheel and one size compressor wheel all through the whole series of all the hoslets mated to Cummins. They all had very large exhuast housings (16cm2 for a 4BT and 18.5cm2 for 6BTs). Stock this put about 12 psi to my engine, same with the 6's I think too.


In 1994 they started playing the power wars (and again perfect example of how turbo largely depends on preferance) and they made the compressor wheel much larger, went to a 4" air intake system and 3" tubes for their air-air intercoolers. They reduced the size of the exhaust housing (again same turbine) to 12cm2 so all of a sudden well over 20 psi if you wanted it. But the wastegate set to release at 18.5 psi. For '94 only it was called a WH1C (basically an upgraded H1C) before they redesigned it and called it a HX35 through I think '99. There is a '97 only auto version that has a 9cm2 housing wastegates (so very small) that is also badass - this is the turbo I actually wish I had...

I hear there are some neat turbos off C series (big rig) cummins that are pretty cool and also bolt up, like a HX55 which is huge and I think can also be choked down with a small compressor as well...

 

[R2HKS]

That's good to know. I might have a look around the wreckers here, truck wreckers especially and see what I can find. I like the idea of having a big compressor but really small turbine so it still spools but doesn't run out of puff in the top end, plus having a large compressor doesn't heat up the air as much.

I also like the idea of having a 4inch intake. I would run a 4" snorkel setup too, no restriction there. If I run an air to air intercooler I'd probably run a factory GTR Nissan skyline. I know them, they are good for 400hp, minimum pressure drop and have 3" in and out. Though I may still end up running water to air. There are also plenty of truck intercoolers to choose from and I can get them very cheapily and cut them down to size. They almost always have 3" in and out or larger.

Are any of the Holsets ball bearing?

 

[Radd Cruisers]

This is my first glimps of your turbo, very differnet from what I have seen as of late.

I know my buddy with a 6BT marine laughts hard at the size of my cruiser turbos, but they seem to work well with 4.2s.

example of how adjustments work on this type of turbo. The Saab 2.3 turbo is JUST like this, exept much smaller. I believe it is a Garrett T3 turbo of some sort and lots of muds available for it. I think this would be a great turbo for a 3B and it's where I'd start over an AXT kit for $2G. Unless money was growing on trees for me. We turbo'd my 2H in a weekend (which was probably overkill) using a homebrew trubo we took of a 4L Mitsubishi engine that cracked it's head. Wasn't hard at all. There is something to be said for the exhaust manifold built for the turbo but I don't think it is that mandatory IMO...

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

the holsets are not ball bearing as far as I know, they definetely use oil and are only oil / air cooled, not water cooled so that is where a lof of the euro turbos have it beat particularly... They are big and the beauty is you can choose what exhaust size you have. I liked the 4" but my safari snorkel is 3" so I adapted it back down to 3" regardless. 4" is slight overkill unliess you have a big 6 cyl I suppose. It is really more of a PITA for me personally, I spent close to $100 ib tubes and adapters and shipping to get the right adapter, and I have to pull all the plumbing off just to get to my oil filter!

Anyway, yes the cummins turbos are different. Again nothing wrong with a little turbo though IMO for the reasons stated about. But it makes me realize just how big these turbos are

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

also the Volvo gasser turbos are wastegated as well, that might be another option. A late 80's 700 series turbo would be cool...

 

[R2HKS]

Wasn't somebody here running the Cummins Holset with the 9cm turbine housing? Also hadn't the same person tried out 3 or 4 different turbos including the D50 and gave the thumbs up to the cummins turbo to make the most power?

The diesel turbo experts here in Oz are all giving me different stories. Some say water cooling is a must and offer a 12month 20k warranty. Others say water cooling is not necessary as the diesel produces less heat when turbo'ed compared to a gasser. 400C was the figure quoted after the turbo whereas as gassers produces 700-900C so water cooling is more essential. Get this the company saying water cooling is not necessary actually uses a Garrett GT25 which is watercooled but the water cooling is not hooked up. Even more strange is if you want the water cooling hooked up they reduce the warranty from 2yrs to 12months.

One well known diesel tuner Berrima diesel even contradicts itself on its web page. One part they say water cooled turbos aren't necessary. Then in the faq they say they are and nearly all modern factory turbos are watercooled. Arrgghh. My personal preference from turboing experience is that water cooling whilst not a must have adds to the longevity of the turbo, so I will be running water cooling if possible depending on the turbo chosen.


Also some only offer very mild increases up to a max of 30% torque and only 9psi boost. Whilst Berrima diesel say 10-11 psi boost is low boost and 16-18psi is high boost. They normally setup there turbos to 12psi or so depending on what the customer wants, without and intercooler.

Also I'm getting conflicting stories on fuel boost aneroids. Some say they aren't necessary whilst others say they are essential. arrrgghh.

Decisions, decisions, decisions!