Battery decision quandary (1 Viewer)

[RavenTai]

I have had the second battery tray and relocated washer bottle for 6 moths now, still empty, makes a great place to store stuff under the hood . I Have a basic plan for the system, have the crimper, have an interior switch, just waiting for the expensive pats

I have some electrical mod’s in mind that really make more sense to do after the second battery, aux fuse box, CB, headlight harness ect and later down the road sound, winch, carputer, ect, also my current battery installed by the PO is weak, kind of need to get this done but LED’s have helped a lot here.

I had sold myself on a pair Odyssey 1700’s for ultimate available juice (will require some work to fit) but that is ~$450 shipped the other bits will probably be ~$150-$300 depending on how fancy I want to get, I don’t have this kind of $$$ free to throw at the cruiser and if I did I would be looking at lift or tires, not willing to go into debt for this

I am thinking of getting it over with and getting a pair of large capacity standard flooded batteries, I can deal with the loss of most of the features of the odyssey’s by having the redundancy of 2 to work with.

The one stumbling block for me in this direction is acid spillage, even in my stock 80 (with smaller than stock LTX’s) I have gotten the thing on some steep angles, down the road I can see this getting to be more of a problem, I would hate to rot out my cherry fenders/get stuck with dead batteries in the middle of nowhere


Can you tell I am of two minds here? I assume many of you have looked at this kind of decision before? so far the options I have thought of

A. Leave to poor cruiser alone for a wile stop spending $ on small silly items and save up and do it right, baby the current battery to make it last. Need to get in the mode of spending less anyway, bad things on the horizon
B. Go with the flooded batteries now, possibly swap in the odysseys later as needed. Less efficient total cost/but spread over time
C. Screw electrical for now, buy a single new battery and come back to it later
D. stop being such a and overanalyzing everything


P.S wait until I have to buy tires

 

[Junk]

d, definitely d

seriously dude, wait and do it right. deep down you know that. only way i would cheat would be if you found a screamin deal on some used optimas (which i will never buy again), since they will be easier to find.

2 batts is awesome to have, but i would not make it such a top priority that i would cheat on it.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I vote C and D. Purchase a quality single battery and forget about the acid issue. I'll guarantee I've had a dozen vehicles on steeper angles than you have and they all had stock sealed batteries and I've NEVER seen any of them weep a single drop. If you're truly paranoid, toss $20 more into your battery purchase for one of those acid absorbing/neutralizing battery pads that go in the tray.

By delaying this purchase and nursing the truck along you're:

-placing strain on much more expensive components (alternator, voltage reg, anything electronic that's sensitive to low voltage and large fluctuations of available current)
-risking being stranded and getting a jump start that can damage stuff mentioned above
-risking having to pay full retail for an ordinary battery if/when it fails and you can't shop

DougM

 

[bjowett]

Until some real year to year tesing of the same models of batteries comes along, I'll stay with regular batteries. I've seen both types live long and short lives...

Walmart Maxx 65-N, they produce an S version, too, more on that shortly, had good ratings a couple of year ago... 2 will cost you $116, they have a 36 month free replacment, and 108 month prorate.... I have yet to lose one. If I do, anytown USA has a Walmart to swap em'.

The "N", for north, batteries tend to have more plates for better CCA in cold climates. "S" batteries have fewer plates but more electrolite to handle heat.... I can top off electrolyte.

 

[Arya Ebrahimi]

What's wrong with Optimas? I've had a redtop in my Jeep for two years with not a problem. Just wondering what everyones experiences are with them in cruisers.

 

[Landpimp]

how about a pair of Exide Orbitals? run about $100 each. I run a pair in my 60, great batteries.

or just a single 1700 or 2100?

 

[Montana Cruiser]

I have to agree that should you wait and nurse yours along, you may find yourself stranded and paying top dollar for a battery you really dont want Buying 2 batteries right now that you arent totally sold on will eat at you later.

I think I have mentioned this before in an earlier thread but for what its worth, I have a Toyota True Start in mine (I dont know if this would be the a Panasonic like everyone says is original or not) that the PO put in and I am able to run my stereo, charge my cell phone etc for many hours, doors open and have no noticable effect on starting. Not sure on the price, but check with C-Dan.

Another option that has always worked in previous rigs for me are the sealed batteries from CAT as in Catapillar heavy equipment. Always a reasonable price, lots of CCA for the winter and always lasted. No tech info, but something to look into.

On a side note, anyone with an "original Panasonic" have a pic of it? I would like to see if it looks anything like my Toyota True Start, just curious.

 

[reffug]

I have been extremelly happy with the dual optima setup in my rig. They are excellent batts. IMO but I kinda agree nurse it until you can do it the way you want to. Otherwise you just end up spending more money and doin it twice cause your not happy with the first fix.

 

[Landpimp]

the True Start is not a Panasonic, I believe they are an Interstate. True Starts are the batts the dealer sells as replacements, good batts.. Panasonics say that right on the top.

On a side note, anyone with an "original Panasonic" have a pic of it? I would like to see if it looks anything like my Toyota True Start, just curious.

 

[mabrodis]

All this battery talk as got me thinking. Has anyone had a normal battery which couldn't handle the load or the charge cycles, etc, and failed and then put in an Optima and it worked far better than the normal battery? I'm curious because I know alot of people run Optima batteries, they are totally sealed, which is very cool, newer technology, high bling-bling factor. But as far as having a battery that actually fails, I don't think the Optimas are superior in any way to a good old-tech battery. Maybe I'm wrong, but even Optimas don't offer a 3-yr FREE replacement warranty do they? Then a long pro-rated warranty like any good normal battery does (Costco, Walmart, etc), do they? I definetly see some good uses for a sealed battery like the Optima, but for the cost are they any better than just a good battery? I have a Costco battery in my LX (thought the Panasonic died, when it was my starter contacts, I was ignorant then and didn't know any better), and a Walmart one in my FJ40. The one from Walmart is rated higher, better warranty, and Walmarts are everywhere, seems like a no-brainer to me...unless you HAVE to have a sealed battery, or really want the bling factory of the optimas...

And yes I realize the argument about how the warranty doesn't always matter, like buying cheap tools with a lifetime warranty. If the tool is never made any good, then who cares about the lifetime warranty, because you don't want to be replacing it all the time...but it would appear that doesn't happen with the Walmart batteries...

Opinions?

 

[cruiserdan]

One very important aspect of multiple battery installatons that has not been mentioned is the importance of obtaining MATCHED batteries of the SAME AGE when running multiple battery setups.


If the batteries are not identical they will constantly be "fighting" with each other.


Do yourselves a favor and go buy the book "Managing 12 Volts". (A great read)

 

[John E Davies]

I have always preferred conventional batteries - they are simple to maintain (check specific gravity and add water) and cheap and available every where. Routine specific gravity checks and visual inspection of the electrolyte clarity give you advanced warning of battery failure, which I like. I considered an Odyssey until I discovered there was only one "dealer" in Spokane and he did not stock a single unit. He wanted $209 and shipping for a PC 1200LMJT. I found it online for about $145 plus free shipping.

I also considered an Optima which can be found all over the place, including Costco, but I was scared off by reports here of premature failure.

After considering what I would do if the battery quit on a long trip I went to Sears and bought a new DieHard International Group 35. I didn't want to have my truck down for a week while waiting on a replacement - every dinky town has a Sears Auto Center. The DieHard has a 100 month warranty - the first 36 are free replacement.

If I lived in Big Rock Country I would probably have gone with a single Odyssey, but my truck just doesn't get sideays all that much...

John

 

[Landpimp]

Dan, I think(and I KNOW if I am wrong I will be corrected) that is only really important if they are used in paralle or in series(such as making one large 12volt bat or a 24volt system). If they are isolated from each other as in a normal dual battery set up matching is not(as) important. At least this is my understanding and I have not had issues with my 4 dual bat set ups(2 of which are matched/aged however)

One very important aspect of multiple battery installatons that has not been mentioned is the importance of obtaining MATCHED batteries of the SAME AGE when running multiple battery setups.


If the batteries are not identical they will constantly be "fighting" with each other.


Do yourselves a favor and go buy the book "Managing 12 Volts". (A great read)

 

[cruiserdan]

I would agree that certain types of divorced systems would not require matched batteries. The book I mentioned above goes into great detail about proper configuration. It covers marine usage, coach battery setups, charging systems, isolators ad nausium.

Quite a read. It also goes into great detail about determining power consumption and system requirements.

 

[robbie]

Heck you could get two optima's at costco for about 210 dollars and then you would not have to worry about it. I see lots of battery acid corrison under the regular tray's. I personally would not run a regualr battery any more. I also reccommend that any one with a 80 or 100 series that does remotes stuff get a dual batter system or always travel with some one and carry jumper cables. I finally got to my manual system a few months ago. I put two 6 volts optimua's in the rear passenger quater panel. I like the set up. The starter has alot more kick when the switch is set to both. I now do not worry about a single battery dieing for any reason.
Once corrison starts it will always be a bitch to keep it from rusting through. later robbie

 

[ParadiseCruiser]

This issue of batteries is somewhat like which tire is best. What's good for the goose, is not necessarily so for the gander... and we all know that.

I side with Brodis and Davies, among others, that Optimas & Odysseys are appropriate, if you really need them. But if you you are looking for a quality battery, there are numerous choices among the standard, sealed varieties.

The last pair of (mismatched) Diehards I ran in my "other" truck (Ford E-350 4x4, 7.0L, winch, lights, radios, etc.) lasted 8+ years. I now run a pair of high CCA sealed Excides in the Cruiser (winch, lights, radios, etc.) and have had great success (matched as to type, but not as to age).

While theoretically correct, the "type and age" issue has been less of a concern in practical application in my experience (including a multiple battery instalation in an auxiliary sailboat), than has been bantered out on this list over time.

I've never believed the extra cost was justified, unless you live off-camber. Then, I would definately go for Optima, Odyssey, Orbital, or the like.

Just my humble 2c, and experience.

Cheers, R -

 

[RavenTai]

Thanks for the replies, you guys are helping me think this out

Re: optima, I had been scared off of those by reports of questionable reliability and also their small size, wile they provide plenty of CCA’s to start a cruiser the lack of volume shows in the AmpHour ratings, witch I am looking for in at least the aux battery if not both, $210 for two optima’s sounds like a really good deal though, got me thinking of them again, but I don’t have a Costco close enough (80+ miles round trip), went to our local BJ’s (Costco knock-off) they only have flooded batteries, same with the local Walmart

Went looking around town today found 2 optima’s at a local parts store
The small red top 720CCA 44AH for $109, total would be $233 with tax, 88 total AH $2.62/AH
The larger group 34 yellow top closer in size but still not filling the tray, 750CCA 55AH $160, total $342.40 w/tax 110AH but that is $3.11/AH

Did not see any orbital or any other VRLA/AGM batteries available locally

Found a slightly better price on Hawker Odyssey

PC1700’s ($175.95 if you buy 2) 875 CCA 65AH, totals: $413.70 w/shipping 130AH $3.18/AH, non metal jacket,

PC1200 115.95 40AH 550 CCA, total $272.98, 80 AH, $341/AH

Would like to find this kind of data for some flooded batteries but it is not as easy to find

Also found Hawker Genisis witch look like another version of the odyssey batteries marketed to telecommunication/industrial/commercial/military apps, and from what I can tell, No warranty! Quite a bit cheaper if I were to buy a pair but not going to risk it, total with shipping $366.56 $2.61/AH

http://www.enersysstationary.com/documents/US_GPL_SG_001_0303.pdf

Kind of get the Idea that these are marketed as deep cycle though they do not come out and say so, I wonder if there are any real differences between the Odyssey and Genesis besides marketing arms

I don’t think the Odyssey PC2150 will fit without a lot more work than to get the Pc1700 in but it carries lot of AH at 94 ea


Dan, on your recommendation in a previous thread I got “managing 12v” good read, not spoke of directly there IMO as long as the two batteries are parallel only when the alt is commanding the bus (alt voltage higher than batt voltage) it should keep the two batteries from interacting with each other, when alt voltage goes below battery voltage is when there can be interaction and inefficiency

 

[best4x4xfar]

The Odyssey Line of batteries appear to be quality batteries, but to me their specifications seem to let them down (size verses capacity) when compared to other quality AGM batteries available. The PC1200 is the closest in size to say a yellow top Optima, but only carries a 78 min reserve capacity in a similar size/weight package as the Optima which carries a 124 min reserve. To me, reserve capacity is the important number, and a 47 minute advantage in a similar sized battery is a HUGE difference. The PC1700 specs are better, but they are huge next to an Optima. I’m new to Land Cruisers, and still looking for the right one to own. If there is room to fit two PC1700’s under the hood that is great, I never had that much room under the hood of my Discovery. Two PC1700’s will give you 284 minutes of reserve, pretty impressive. As I said, Reserve time to me was always the most important in building a vehicle that will travel far away from civilization.

If you are really looking for a high capacity set-up, consider this. I didn’t get around to trying it in my Discovery, but check out Lifeline Batteries (http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marine.asp ) model GPL-4C. Lifelines are well respected (in commercial applications) AGM deep cycle batteries. The GPL-4C is approximately the same length and width as an Optima, but slightly less than 2.5” taller (I don’t know how much height the Crusier has to play with, but these would have just barely cleared the hood blanket on my Discovery), and is a 6 volt battery. By placing two in series (instead of parallel) you get a 12 volt battery with, are you ready for this, 492 minutes of reserve time (standard 25 amp draw test). That’s roughly the equivalent of four Optima Yellow tops in parallel. Plenty of juice for winching, and would probably run an ARB/Engle fridge for a week or more! That is also an extra 208 minutes of reserve over two PC1700’s. How is that for reserve capacity? I’ve seen several photos around this site of PC1200’s used in Parallel. To me these have far to little reserve capacity, with two of them coming I with 128 minutes LESS reserve time than a single PC1700. Just something else to consider, if they will fit. I’d love to hear from someone as to whether they will or not…

 

[ParadiseCruiser]

Dan, on your recommendation in a previous thread I got “managing 12v” good read, not spoke of directly there IMO as long as the two batteries are parallel only when the alt is commanding the bus (alt voltage higher than batt voltage) it should keep the two batteries from interacting with each other, when alt voltage goes below battery voltage is when there can be interaction and inefficiency

This statement should be posted at the top of every battery thread.

It summarizes the essence of properly wired dual battery systems, why solenoid and isolator systems can work as well as the other (just a different application), what the author is trying to convey, what Rich has been telling us, and what Pimp & Dan are reminding us of.

Good one Rav.

Cheers, R -

 

[Hltoppr]

For my dual batt set up, which is in my garage waiting for an install, I'm going with an Optima Red Top for the starting battery, and an Optima Blue Top Deep Cycle Marine Battery for the accessories, connected by a Sure Power 95A isolator.

I've never had any problems with the Optimas, and am a big fan.

I'm jealous of all the FZJs who have room for a second batt under the hood...mines going in a battery box in the rear cargo area...

-H-