Battery corrosion = Blown Head gasket?

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MDarius

I break stuff.
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The HG blew on my Subaru Forester this week. A forum member posted up some helpful info, and this was part of the article:

''...The process of the battery being discharged and charged is ultimately what causes the acid to vent out of the battery. How does a battery effect head gaskets you ask? Without getting to far into the scientific end of it, the battery is located very close to the radiator. Coolant can become very corrosive and this is also known as electrolysis. A battery that is covered in battery acid and corrosion will add to the level of corrosion in the cooling system. This corrosion can eat away at gaskets, seals and metal that it comes in contact with...''

This is the original source:
Subaru Head Gasket Problems Explained. - Seattle Subaru Repair

Can someone explain the above theory/statement, or debunk it?

Secondly, The battery clamp (goes across the top/front of the battery) in my cruiser is covered in nasty battery corrosion. Obviously I need to clean it, but do I need a new battery?
 
sounds like coincidence that the hg leak was near the battery and they extrapolated something that is pure speculation.

the theory that venting battery fumes adds corrosive elements to the coolant is an interesting one but since the system is basically sealed, i don't see how it could enter the coolant.
those corrosive fumes would most likely settle near the battery and you would see buildup if it happened regularly, i would think.

besides that, the LC's have that barrier that keeps the battery very seperate from the engine heat and vice-versa on "corrosion"
 
I've worked as a tech. for Subaru for a good while and will add this to the crap that guy is saying about battery acid in coolant.

1. Why is it almost always the Drivers side head gasket and not the passenger? they both get the same coolant don't they?

2. Why is the external leaking problem only associated to the Early(1999-2004) sohc motors. not the dohc, turbo or 6 cylinders. they all sit in the exact same spot.

It is solely poor head gasket design that causes it. All the rest of the motors use a 3 layer metal gasket and not a single thickness metal coated gasket like the sohc motors. Also since the motors changed in 2005 slightly we have seen extremely few HG failures other than from overheating which is about the only reason any of the other engines will pop a HG.
 
It sounds like bunk to me! But technically the coolant could be exposed to battery fumes in the coolant reservoir that is the only open part of a cooling system (reservoir overflow tube) and the coolant does move back and forth. Just my 2 cents but still don't buy it.
 
What a bunch of crap. If the battery was gassing out enough acid to actually infiltrate the coolant, there would be a huge hole rotted thru the hood above it.
 
What a bunch of crap. If the battery was gassing out enough acid to actually infiltrate the coolant, there would be a huge hole rotted thru the hood above it.

Not if the tire pressures were uneven. I suspect that this could be the root cause.
 
Not if the tire pressures were uneven. I suspect that this could be the root cause.

If they were uneven towards the driver side, wouldn't that effect the blinker fluid too?

Thanks for the sanity check. I thought I was losing it!

So, what DOES cause the corrosion on the battery hold down clamp, where it doesn't actually touch the cables or posts? Mine's in pretty bad shape. Looking for a little science here.
 
It sounds like the guy is getting a little confused. As anti-freeze degrades, it will change PH. I am not going to say I know exactly how it happens, but a potential difference can develope between the liquid and the engine block. You can measure this with a volt meter stuck in the antifreeze and the other probe on the block. This small difference causes a small electrical current to develope and the engine rots out from the inside out. This is one of the reasons why you need to change antifreeze on a regular basis.
 
I love this part "Without getting to far into the scientific end of it"


What science?:rolleyes::popcorn:
 
Well, I went back to his web site and asked him to explain. He provided a detailed explanation and I provided an adequate response. Holy cow! What a guy!

#

I would like to know more of the science behind your comments about the battery causing the coolant to become more acidic. This just doesn’t make sense to me.
1. The cooling system is sealed except for the overflow. That’s a small amount of exposure to the gasses, which are circulating and being flushed from the engine compartment by turbulence from the fan and incoming air.
2. The same coolant that causes the leak on the drivers side is being circulated on the passenger’s side. Again, the system is sealed so I can’t see the gasses magically bypassing the HG to get in to the case and corrode the HG from the inside out.

# Justin Stobb Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:34 pm

Ok,

I will try my best to explain this to you but there is no guarantee you will get it. Things that can happen to cars are much more technical than just nuts and bolts. I studied automotive technology for two years full time and have since had 20 years or so of practical experience.

I am also very busy at the shop and just don’t have time for the entire scientific explanation, thats what I went to school for.

I want to start by saying just because you don’t understand something initially doesn’t mean it isn’t true or correct. And most of what I am going state here is partially about what I learned in school and my practical experience in the field and wont make sense to someone who didn’t study this in school or worked in the field add to that a good technician and not a parts changer or a “mechanic”.

In every field there are experts and there are people who merely fill there position.

The battery vents acid, the acid collects on the battery terminals and the cables and they corrode. Corrosion to battery cables is like hair stuck in plumbing, it restricts current flow by increasing the resistance. Look up ohms law.

Ohm's Law

If we increase the resistance by allowing corrosion to be part of the electrical system the current flow will be limited. Current flows from negative to positive which is just the opposite of how most think it works. Water is a great conductor of electricity and electricity will always choose the shortest path to ground which on a car is the engine that has water flowing through it. Your engine coolant can actually have voltage flowing through it and there is a test that can be done to check for this. Voltage flowing through the engines cooling system will cause electrolysis which will eat away at everything it comes in contact with. A Subaru is an all aluminum engine compounding the problem further. Someone uses a flush machine to flush out the cooling system and fills the cars cooling system with copper ions and the problem intensifies further.

Here is the definition of electrolysis.

A chemical decomposition reaction produced by passing an electric current through a solution containing ions.

The gasket on the left side is always the one to leak coolant period, the battery cable is grounded to the engine block on the left side and the battery is on the left side every second generation head gasket we take out that has failed has been eaten away from the cooling jacket out and we have seen this time and time again. Coolant becomes corrosive, eats the gasket the gasket leaks. Rather than just fix the leak and say oh well, I have tried to come up with practical solutions to the problem.

Summary: The more resistance in the primary electrical system the better the chance of voltage in the cooling system, the better the chance of high levels of electrolysis, the better the odds the coolant is corrosive, the greater the possibility the coolant eats away at the gaskets. The longer the corrosive coolant eats away at the gasket the better chance it has of failing.

We have cars come in with “chia pets of corrosion” on the top of the battery it is quite the site.

Voltage in the coolant is a common issue that again most just don’t understand. And because most don’t understand it, someone like me has to try to explain it. I have had to suffer through being devalued by people who think they know as much as a professional technician and I do get a bit cranky when I am questioned as if it can’t be possible because you haven’t ever heard of such a thing. I am sorry if I have come across rude, but I have a small business to run and I am always pressed for time and the Website thing takes so much of my family time its hard to justify responding sometimes.

If you don’t understand what I am saying I can try at a later date to explain it more in depth but it may be a bit.

# Matt Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:54 pm

I retyped this 5 times trying to not be a jerk. It didn’t work. I didn’t devalue you, I asked for clarification, and WOW, you just went with it. Thanks for the explanation and breaking it down so an uneducated, inexperienced monkey like me could get it. It’s really great of you.

Good luck with your business. It’s obvious from your posts that your technical expertise is by far your greatest asset, since you won’t get far on personality.
 
Oh, this might get us moved to chat. Sorry I was a jerk. He got me.
 
We have cars come in with “chia pets of corrosion” on the top of the battery it is quite the sight.

fixed it for the assbag, :flipoff2: run on sentence too...
he's right about the electrical theory, a sacrificial anode may be the answer; like on your boat prop, eh?:meh: or the guy that posted about the better head gasket may be able to get you them?

pompous turd at any rate, if the website is such a burden maybe he should go back to the lab, hairless rats like that kind of degradation.

um, to make this not chat, I changed my electrons in the da-kiney meter last night.....
 
...

# Justin Stobb Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:34 pm

If we increase the resistance by allowing corrosion to be part of the electrical system the current flow will be limited. Current flows from negative to positive which is just the opposite of how most think it works. Water is a great conductor of electricity and electricity will always choose the shortest path to ground which on a car is the engine that has water flowing through it. Your engine coolant can actually have voltage flowing through it and there is a test that can be done to check for this. Voltage flowing through the engines cooling system will cause electrolysis which will eat away at everything it comes in contact with. A Subaru is an all aluminum engine compounding the problem further. Someone uses a flush machine to flush out the cooling system and fills the cars cooling system with copper ions and the problem intensifies further.

I am just going to debunk a couple of things his schooling told him.

- Current flows from positive to negative just like we were always told - however electrons flow from negative to positive which seems unintuitive.

- Water is a lousy conductor of electricity until impurities are introduced.

- Electricity will always choose the shortest path to ground but will stay on the surface not the innards. No matter how much impurities are in the water it will _never_ flow electricity better than the block of the engine.

- Electrolysis is more common when dissimilar metals meet.

I like his shock and awe strategy of claiming his expertise. Probably just some 14 yo on his daddies computer rehashing things he has heard. Or maybe this sentence was introspective: "In every field there are experts and there are people who merely fill there position."
 

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