Auxiliary Fuel Tanks for 200s (1 Viewer)

[TeCKis300]

Your mpg's towing are about right given my experience as well. Speed is the biggest factor, with higher speeds necessitating that much more energy to punch the giant hole in the wind. Aero drag increases exponentially with speed and you can only do so much to minimize the energy expenditure.

I generally cruise at 60-65mph when towing, in 4th gear, and get about ~10mpg. This is on wide tires (305mm, 33.2" tires) and a 28' Airstream.

Yep, stock gears. I have 34" A/T tires which are heavy and sticky, so they seem to cut my mileage by about 10%
I will move to 4.88s at some point in the future.

You might try running in 3rd to get an approximate idea of what 4.88s might feel like at speed. 3.92 to 4.88 diff is ~25% gearing advantage. 4th to 3rd (1.0 to 1.353) is ~35% gearing advantage. Not perfect, but it'll give you some sense.

I sometime wish for the new 8-speed in towing to get that perfect ratio at speed. With a 21% lower 1st gear, to grunt off the line with 7500lbs in tow. The 6-speed is really not lacking for me, but we're always looking for better right?

 

[Blasst]

@linuxgod I'm re-gearing now....and looking for a used trailer in the 24-30 range also.
Noticed you have Icon wheels. Ben at Slees mentioned them to me a few minutes ago. What do you do to make them fit a Toyota hub. Machine it or use a spacer or do they make some that fit?

 

[wardharris]

I would be concerned that overfilling the main tank would result in fuel in the charcoal canister well before the fuel backflowed into the aux tank, resulting in all sorts of evap codes like you've been dealing with.

@wardharris, is the transfer pump inside the aux tank or external?

External.

 

[linuxgod]

@linuxgod I'm re-gearing now....and looking for a used trailer in the 24-30 range also.
Noticed you have Icon wheels. Ben at Slees mentioned them to me a few minutes ago. What do you do to make them fit a Toyota hub. Machine it or use a spacer or do they make some that fit?

The Icon Six Speed wheels fit fine. They have a 116.5mm center bore (hole), whereas the Toyota hubs are 110mm. The center cap is a push through design and is 1mm thick, effectively creating a wheel with a 114.5mm bore. So basically you end up with a 2.25mm gap between the inside of the wheel (center cap) and the Toyota hub. Nothing to machine. If you use the 60 degree acorn-style lugs like you're supposed to and hand tighten them in a star pattern to get the wheel perfectly centered before torquing them all the way down they center fine though.

I did buy some custom machined aluminum hubcentric rings to make them fit perfectly flush against the hub (to ensure perfect centering and balance) but because the center cap is a push through design they won't fit unless I leave the center caps off. Wife prefers the look with the center caps so I'm not running them (BTW if anyone is interested I'd sell them for the $30 I paid). I thought about ordering some 114.5mm-to-110mm rings but since there's no vibration on the highway at 80mph I haven't bothered. If you decide you want some custom rings I can find the company I had manufacture mine and send you the info.

Icon is now producing another wheel with a bolt-on center cap. I'm not sure the center bore for that one and whether it's also 116.5mm or whether they used 110mm like the Toyota hubs (which would have been smart).

 

[linuxgod]

External.

Cool. I'm not sure how reliable they are, but I know I've replaced a few water pumps in my travel trailer over its lifetime, so any external pump would be much easier.

 

[wardharris]

Cool. I'm not sure how reliable they are, but I know I've replaced a few water pumps in my travel trailer over its lifetime, so any external pump would be much easier.

LRA uses pretty good components all around.....

 

[wardharris]

AUX TANK PUMP DETAILS

From the questions above - correcting some of my erroneous statements:

"Will the pump control run the transfer pump as long as you hold the button?"
YES, BUT. The switch on the pump control is a Touch On / Touch Off type you do not need to hold it on.

"Will the pump turn off if you run it out of fuel?"
YES. Once the red light on the PG210 switch gauge unit flashes red (empty), after 2 minutes it will turn the pump off.

If you overfill the main tank, does the excess just drain back down into the aux tank?

• YES. If you overfill the main tank it will back up the filler neck and run back to the auxiliary tank.
• BUT. You do have the risk to flood the fume canister because you have over filled the main tank.
• SUGGESTED PRACTICE. Better to transfer the fuel once there is room for it in the main tank.
• ANOTHER OPTION: Our PG210 combo gauge/switch has the ability to be wired into to the sender on the main tank and shut the transfer pump when the tank gets to a chosen level. This is a little more involved and requires the measuring of voltage on the main tank sender finding out if it is ascending or descending voltage and programing the PG210 to the correct shut off point.

"How will the dual fill setup function with California's fume recovery pumps?"
TBD. Should be good to go, see detailed response below.

 

[wardharris]

AUX TANK DETAILS (Continued)

The 200 Prototype is on a pallet waiting for pick up in Melbourne (along with a bunch of other customer tanks) - also making progress on software (tech research and development) in support of the hardware development (tank and kit). We are working hard to understand how the 200 Series fuel and emission systems works and how our vehicle enhancements will affect those systems.

Georg has extensive contacts in the Toyota tech community, including master techs that advise him on the issues we are dealing with in the "Americanization" of the LRA products. One example from an earlier thread post with questions:

"How will the dual fill setup function with California's fume recovery pump?"

In the spirit of group tech support - a little Gear Geek sharing - here are some content on this topic.

The basic components of your vehicle's EVAP / emissions control system are:

• Fuel Tank - Stores the fuel.
• Charcoal Canister - Fuel vapor storage case.
• Canister Purge Valve - Allows stored fuel vapors in the containment canister to be recycled back into the engine combustion process when necessary.
• Leak Detection Pump (referred to above in the question) - Used to create a vacuum to test integrity of the system.
• Canister Vent Valve - Closes the fuel tank vent to prevent outside air from entering the system during an evaporative system leak test.

There are various sensors, circuits, solenoids and lines that work with the components above to ensure that the fuel storage and emissions systems will not allow fumes to exit to the atmosphere. During the test mode, the vehicle control system initiates an automated process where the Canister Vent Valve closes and the Leak Detection Pump work pulls vacuum in the tank to see if it "leaks" and if it does, then the system generates one of those dreaded error codes.

As posted in the question above, it is reasonable to ask what, if any, impact the addition of the auxiliary tank may have upon the normal operation of the system, including generation of codes.

From our friends with knowledge of the OEM emission systems, Georg has heard that the addition of a 45 gallon auxiliary tank in a 200 would/will not have an impact upon the LDP's ability to generate vacuum and a satisfactory test. This assumes that the added system components - aux tank, lines, fittings, etc. are fully sealed from the atmosphere.

Bottom line? If your truck is in good shape and working well when the LRA tank is installed, there should be no issues created with your EVAP test system and its proper function.

We will assess function of these components and the system during our prototype install - and report back to you. Thanks!

 

[linuxgod]

We've determined that fuel in the charcoal canister isn't the cause of the codes.

Guess I missed that. In the end what was the cause of the evap codes?

 

[TonyP]

Guess I missed that. In the end what was the cause of the evap codes?

Not sure. But Kamal swapped his canister and is still getting codes.

 

[wardharris]

Final note on compliance with regulation. California requires that ANY auxiliary fuel tank installed on a vehicle subject to regulation be the subject of CARB certification and issuance of an Executive Order - even if the emission system works as designed and the vehicle passes smog. Non-compliant tanks may not be sold for on-road use.

 

[Blasst]

any news

 

[indycole]

any news

I think I’ve been the bottleneck. The truck is going to the shop on Friday to test the prototype tank fitment.

 

[wardharris]

any news

I think I’ve been the bottleneck. The truck is going to the shop on Friday to test the prototype tank fitment.

Yep, its all Cole's fault (NOT!)

Seriously, the LRA crew got the tanks shipped before holiday shut-down, but the airline, customs and motor freight folks all had holiday schedules. The pallets got here after the first and the US spec prototype is just waiting for the truck.

Cole has been a great partner/first install and we are keen to get it on the road.

Rest of the LRA relationship and business are moving forward. Lots of non-200 tanks going to new homes....

Here are two examples - LRA kits for US spec FJ Cruisers - replacement main and auxiliary - 30 gallons each!!

We will try to keep stock on shelf for the more popular models.

 

[aggiepaintrain]

Interested in pricing.

 

[wardharris]

Interested in pricing.

Tentative pricing for all three sizes (see below) is $1,695 plus shipping from Stockton, CA.

We are fine-tuning the kits with LRA to clear the charcoal canister so capacity are TBD.

Planned sizes:
Large - approximately 42 gallons (requires spare relocation)
Medium - 24 gallons (requires spare relocation)
Small - approximately 13 gallons (retains OEM spare location)

 

[WillW]

Final note on compliance with regulation. California requires that ANY auxiliary fuel tank installed on a vehicle subject to regulation be the subject of CARB certification and issuance of an Executive Order - even if the emission system works as designed and the vehicle passes smog. Non-compliant tanks may not be sold for on-road use.

So basically anyone in CA is SOL when they try to smog, as always. Bummer.

 

[wardharris]

So basically anyone in CA is SOL when they try to smog, as always. Bummer.

Not necessarily...

We believe the LRA tank will function as designed, not throw codes and pass smog. Even though the vehicle passes smog, that doesn't mean it will be in compliance with the regulation posted above.

Does the smog test involve crawling under the vehicle to inspect?

 

[WillW]

Not necessarily...

We believe the LRA tank will function as designed, not throw codes and pass smog. Even though the vehicle passes smog, that doesn't mean it will be in compliance with the regulation posted above.

Does the smog test involve crawling under the vehicle to inspect?

Unfortunately it does in CA, you can still pass smog but fail visual. We also have 2 classes of smog stations as well, regular ones and "star" smog stations which I believe have much stricter tests.

It's ridiculous. Some stations are more lax than others though. We'll see what happens with the fuel tanks.

 

[WillW]

double post