I didn't want to download the app but did anyways. I ordered on August 29 and my order only says "order placed" on the app. I'll text them tomorrow to see.
April 2022 rolling out now: check 1st post. 3 Models 25% so far.
- Thread starter SharpeCat
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I didn't want to download the app but did anyways. I ordered on August 29 and my order only says "order placed" on the app. I'll text them tomorrow to see.
I ordered a VR45 last week, and had a shipping number the next day. The fridge arrived in Atlanta in about a week. No shipping damage at all and fridge works perfectly. Overall I'm very pleased.
@SharpeCat thanks for all your work to organize the group buy!
@SharpeCat thanks for all your work to organize the group buy!
- Thread starter
- #543
Glad you’re pleased and that everything went smoothly. Thanks for letting us know!
What if you have one zone at 0 and the other around 41ish? I have not measured mine but power isnt really an issue so I just set it and let it run. My solar and solar generator can go infinity unless I have over a week with no sun.
- Thread starter
- #545
My guess is still under 400wH a day. A week jeez you must have a monster power bank like @silver02accord and his yeti 3000 over here!
I got a notification that iceco released a new video!
Remember that if you are happy, then the best way to give back is to simply leave an honest feedback somewhere convenient for you. With that said, I hope to see some of you in the comments section on their YouTube videos! I forgot this time but I will identify myself as a mudder from here on, so we can high five each other in IceCos comment sections lol.
I would say it would run more but dependent on Temps specially at 90+ in the car and obviously it creates heat too I keep widows cracked a good bit. Oh what power bank does he have?
I'm running lifepo4 280ah cells in custom Pelican case that is still in the works but is functional.
- Thread starter
- #547
Yeah probably a little more now that I think about it. VL60 with no bag? With bag close to my guess without bag probably over 500 is my guess. Just a guess though, and please let us know if you get an official measure. Much thanks for your time and input brother!
I'm kind of wishing I had ordered a dual zone.
Not relevant to the deal anymore, but I had to say it.
Not relevant to the deal anymore, but I had to say it.
I'll sell you my dual zone! It's brand new, but got a couple dents and broken pieces.
I'm still trying to resolve this issue, but starting to only hear crickets from Iceco.
Oh man, I put a JP50 in my cart yesterday but didn't get around to completing checkout, and now the code doesn't seem to apply to the JP50 anymore 
- Thread starter
- #551
That means the TRs must be right around the corner.Oh man, I put a JP50 in my cart yesterday but didn't get around to completing checkout, and now the code doesn't seem to apply to the JP50 anymore
@wlittleman @rsemidwest let me know at the end of Monday if no response yet from Lu or someone at IceCo. It’s the end of the week so it will be hard to get an answer before Monday if you don’t get one by end of today. Just keep us posted fellas and I apologize for any inconvenience.
I never got a response by text, ended up emailing them and got a response back over night. Just sent my response back to them - let you know how it resolves: but glad to get an acknowledgement from Iceco
Iceco offered me $30 reimbursement. I worked for an Internet sales company early in my career that shipped expensive metal boxes (Weber Grills) so understand that damage occurs and I also understand how damaged freight claims work. I don’t want to sour the group buy - I’m happy for everyone who received an un-damaged unit at a great price and it’s a cool unit (no pun intended) but that’s just an unacceptable business practice. I will file a dispute with PayPal and let Iceco figure it out. You get what you pay for probably isn’t a hard concept to sell in a Land Cruiser group (service and warranty is part of the expectation - especially upon receipt of a new purchase) -should have known better and went with reputable brand like Dometic/ARB.
- Thread starter
- #554
Thank you for the feedback and I wish you the best. What did you think would be a fair response to your case?
I say this with all due respect, but saying this kind of business practice is unacceptable is, quite frankly, being overly dramatic and unfair to ICECO. I’m glad I’m not an official iceco employee because they likely can’t tell you this without risking their jobs, but IceCo and our group buys are better off without you IF this is how unreasonable you can be over a little dent that does not affect how the fridge performs. It’s purely aesthetic and most of the damage you received can be repaired/concealed by replacing the missing screw under the corner protector, the one that secures that metal plate back in. Did you even try that like i suggested? If you want to put yourself through paypal hell for something so small, then that is all you. Do not blame it on ICECO when paypal makes this experience even worse for you.
That’s also nice that you can afford Arb or Dometic, but like the first post says, not all of us have that option to spend almost twice as much or more on a fridge with mostly the same components from a brand name. Also, shipping damage can still happen even when you spend 2-3 times the price, and dealing with it can be a pain even when you pay 2-3 times the price more. There is a always the chance you will pay twice as much only to result in the same thing from other brands.
I’m not sure how long you worked for said company and how much you shipped through UPS, or why you felt the need to list your qualifications/portray yourself as an "expert", but as someone who has been working for my parents wholesale company for over 15 years, I can tell you that these things happen quite often. The vast majority of the things we ship do not end up with damage, but it’s inevitable with the volume we handle, that a small percentage of them will. UPS can be quite hard on their packages (throwing them into the truck instead of laying them down gently/not securing them so they slide around).
Yes, it was unfortunate that you got a dent in the corner of yours but to blame all of this on IceCo and say that their business practice is unacceptable after trying to work with you... well I don’t think that’s fair/right. They did things right on their end and barely made any money off of us to begin with, and when things happen that is beyond their control/not their fault, they still try their best to make things right. Can you even prove to us that IceCo can get more in insurance refunds than what they offered you, for the damage you presented? And even with the damage, can you name one alternative choice for a fridge that is remotely even close to such a good deal? How do you think ARB and Dometic would handle this? By spending twice as much on the box it ships in, so that they can maybe save the occasional 1% of fridges from ending up with a dent? Charge everyone more for something that affects less than 1% of their customers? Do they just pay for return shipping and arrange a pickup of your damaged fridge and then send you a new one on their dime for every case with a small dent, or do they offer partial reimbursement like ICECO? Can you prove they would offer more reimbursement in this case?
Also, when these things happen it takes time (sometimes weeks) to file a dispute with the shipping company and get the exact reimbursement amount. The process is tedious enough for us to just simply not bother with it unless for significant damage, so we just eat a loss for small cases. Unless you are willing to wait through the process, then the best IceCo rep can do is guess the amount needed to repair it until UPS gives them an official number; thats if they decide to pursue it to begin with. Here is a link to the form you need to file with UPS for reference, and your case falls under Aesthetic damage that does not affect the function of the product. For these claims you need go to through the painful process of getting a repair quote and detailing damage, purchase price and etc... and that takes time.
Cargo Claims Information
www.upsfreight.com
If you had replaced the missing screw in the corner like I suggested, then it honestly wouldn’t look that bad and you’d end up with a fridge that performs better and is more reliable than anything else in its price range... by a decent margin. I'd be happy because a few years from now everyones fridge will look and function the same, as in aesthetically imperfect but works, but you will have spent less on yours. Instead of looking at the glass as half full and realizing you still got a great deal while helping members do the same (by participating/working with the GB), and being happy with that, you choose to look at it as half empty and act like ICECO did something terrible/we mislead you down the wrong path. You say ICECO is the one being completely unacceptable, but from where i'm sitting, to me, that it is you who is being unreasonable/acting in a way that is unacceptable.
I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do. Good luck with your Paypal dispute and i hope that ARB or Dometic will take better care of potential dents for the extra $500-$1000 dollars you will be paying them. And yes, as a "Land Cruiser" group, we do understand the concept of "You get what you pay for", and that's why many of us realize that we aren't getting twice as much when paying twice as much through other brands, and so we choose to go with ICECO; A small dent does not negate that fact.
Everyone else, if i am the one being unreasonable here, then let me know and i will adjust. Just understand that i know how hard Lu and ICECO are working to take care of our members as well as how little they make off of us, and for that reason i will not sit silently and say nothing when i see someone being unfair to them. I will be live working on ICECO stuff today, and will be available here like always to listen to anyone's inputs on this. @rsemidwest I am all ears if you think this could be handled in a better way that is fair to both sides. Much better to focus on what you think can be done better, rather than to sit here and bash the other side as that is not constructive and gets us nowhere.
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Thank you for the feedback and I wish you the best. What did you think would be a fair response to your case?
I say this with all due respect, but saying this kind of business practice is unacceptable is, quite frankly, being overly dramatic and unfair to ICECO. I’m glad I’m not an official iceco employee because they likely can’t tell you this without risking their jobs, but IceCo and our group buys are better off without you IF this is how unreasonable you can be over a little dent that does not affect how the fridge performs. It’s purely aesthetic and most of the damage you received can be repaired/concealed by replacing the missing screw under the corner protector, the one that secures that metal plate back in. Did you even try that like i suggested? If you want to put yourself through paypal hell for something so small, then that is all you. Do not blame it on ICECO when paypal makes this experience even worse for you.
That’s also nice that you can afford Arb or Dometic, but like the first post says, not all of us have that option to spend almost twice as much or more on a fridge with mostly the same components from a brand name. Also, shipping damage can still happen even when you spend 2-3 times the price, and dealing with it can be a pain even when you pay 2-3 times the price more. There is a always the chance you will pay twice as much only to result in the same thing from other brands.
I’m not sure how long you worked for said company and how much you shipped through UPS, or why you felt the need to list your qualifications/portray yourself as an "expert", but as someone who has been working for my parents wholesale company for over 15 years, I can tell you that these things happen quite often. The vast majority of the things we ship do not end up with damage, but it’s inevitable with the volume we handle, that a small percentage of them will. UPS can be quite hard on their packages (throwing them into the truck instead of laying them down gently/not securing them so they slide around).
Yes, it was unfortunate that you got a dent in the corner of yours but to blame all of this on IceCo and say that their business practice is unacceptable after trying to work with you... well I don’t think that’s fair/right. They did things right on their end and barely made any money off of us to begin with, and when things happen that is beyond their control/not their fault, they still try their best to make things right. Can you even prove to us that IceCo can get more in insurance refunds than what they offered you, for the damage you presented? And even with the damage, can you name one alternative choice for a fridge that is remotely even close to such a good deal? How do you think ARB and Dometic would handle this? By spending twice as much on the box it ships in, so that they can maybe save the occasional 1% of fridges from ending up with a dent? Charge everyone more for something that affects less than 1% of their customers? Do they just pay for return shipping and arrange a pickup of your damaged fridge and then send you a new one on their dime for every case with a small dent, or do they offer partial reimbursement like ICECO? Can you prove they would offer more reimbursement in this case?
Also, when these things happen it takes time (sometimes weeks) to file a dispute with the shipping company and get the exact reimbursement amount. The process is tedious enough for us to just simply not bother with it unless for significant damage, so we just eat a loss for small cases. Unless you are willing to wait through the process, then the best IceCo rep can do is guess the amount needed to repair it until UPS gives them an official number; thats if they decide to pursue it to begin with. Here is a link to the form you need to file with UPS for reference, and your case falls under Aesthetic damage that does not affect the function of the product. For these claims you need go to through the painful process of getting a repair quote and detailing damage, purchase price and etc... and that takes time.
Cargo Claims Information
If you had replaced the missing screw in the corner like I suggested, then it honestly wouldn’t look that bad and you’d end up with a fridge that performs better and is more reliable than anything else in its price range... by a decent margin. I'd be happy because a few years from now everyones fridge will look and function the same, as in aesthetically imperfect but works, but you will have spent less on yours. Instead of looking at the glass as half full and realizing you still got a great deal while helping members do the same (by participating/working with the GB), and being happy with that, you choose to look at it as half empty and act like ICECO did something terrible/we mislead you down the wrong path. You say ICECO is the one being completely unacceptable, but from where i'm sitting, to me, that it is you who is being unreasonable/acting in a way that is unacceptable.
I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do. Good luck with your Paypal dispute and i hope that ARB or Dometic will take better care of potential dents for the extra $500-$1000 dollars you will be paying them. And yes, as a "Land Cruiser" group, we do understand the concept of "You get what you pay for", and that's why many of us realize that we aren't getting twice as much when paying twice as much through other brands, and so we choose to go with ICECO; A small dent does not negate that fact.
Everyone else, if i am the one being unreasonable here, then let me know and i will adjust. Just understand that i know how hard Lu and ICECO are working to take care of our members as well as how little they make off of us, and for that reason i will not sit silently and say nothing when i see someone being unfair to them. I will be live working on ICECO stuff today, and will be available here like always to listen to anyone's inputs on this. @rsemidwest I am all ears if you think this could be handled in a better way that is fair to both sides. Much better to focus on what you think can be done better, rather than to sit here and bash the other side as that is not constructive and gets us nowhere.
I appreciate your passion for the product but this is not a replacement corner cap or minor damage.
It is a burden to file claims and I empathize with Lu and Iceco; it’s a pain in the ass, I’ve been there which is why I pointed out having to go through the process myself on the seller side . But, it’s the sellers burden not the customers. I paid $600+ to Iceco and they are obligated to get me the product as described or refund the money back; and when they cannot provide the product due to a shipping loss it does not negate their responsibility in the transaction; they are still on the hook for the obligation.
If Iceco is choosing to “self insure” by not adding and paying for coverage of the declared value that is a risk they decided to take for themselves-it does not negate their responsibly in the sale or transfer risk to the buyer. Their instructions on their own site instruct people shipping items back for warranty to insure the package.
I would have been happy with several different outcomes; sending a replacement (I’m not covering their shipping cost back) or even sending a different product of equal value (that maybe impacts their finances less than fully refunding me and I’m all for that) or a refund. I would have even considered a partial refund but $30 was a slap in the face
A “reputable” company is simply one with an established reputation - Iceco doesn’t really have that here in the states for this product line, several in the forum asked questions related to this. In this day and age - the way Iceco is trying to handle damaged shipments is not a good practice, ultimately for their reputation and for them; or for those of us hoping they will be around in the future if we need warranty repairs. What really needs to happen is you and Lu digest this feedback from a customer who cares and improve the process.
I can tell from your post above you are pretty emotional about this; I am not.
I don’t think it’s helpful to tell a forum member they really aren’t needed in the forum the minute they point out something negative about Iceco or their experience.
You set yourself up as the middle man to help forum members with customer service issues - “just leave the forum”isn’t exactly excellent customer service or supporting the forum members.
- Thread starter
- #556
"If Iceco is choosing to “self insure” by not adding and paying for coverage of the declared value that is a risk they decided to take for themselves-it does not negate their responsibly in the sale or transfer risk to the buyer. Their instructions on their own site instruct people shipping items back for warranty to insure the package."
We do not know this, whether they choose to self insure. We do know that it takes time to determine how much insurance will cover, and that was my point that it could take weeks before they know, and that the best any Rep can do for now is guess. Reps are human, and they don't always get it right; this becomes more difficult when there are no damage estimates from a repair shop. For now i am saying that you are being unreasonable by jumping to conclusion and saying that the way they handle things is "unacceptable". You want a more fair estimate then give them time and work with them to provide information they need to file with shipping company, rather than just jump to conclusions and judge the entire business because you didn't think the first offer from the ICECO rep was reasonable. Until you showed us the side angle, it just looked like your metal plate can just be secured back in with a missing screw. The side angle shows that the side plate also needs to be replaced for aesthetic reasons. Shipping 2 replacement plates costs much less than shipping a fridge both ways and will get your fridge looking new in the same amount of time, but you want them to pay for shipping both ways for an entire fridge and take a bigger loss, that i see as unnecessary. Again, these are aesthetics issues resulting from shipping that they are trying to work with you on, but you jumped to conclusions instead of trying to work with them. Explain to them why you think 30 is unreasonable like you did here, rather than take it personal when the rep was trying their best to guess the damage and then blast ICECO for it. You think 30 is unreasonable, and i think asking for shipping 2 ways for entire fridges versus just sending replacement metal plates that takes a few minutes to put in is unreasonable. So meet in the middle and talk to them... rather than just bash them for it.
"What really needs to happen is you and Lu digest this feedback from a customer who cares and improve the process. "
Actions speak louder than words, brother. You claim you care about improving the process but you are being unreasonable in your demands. It sounds like they are trying to work with you while you expect too much. Only way to improve is to be fair to both sides, and not start a precedent of "customer is always right" and should always get what they demand.
"I can tell from your post above you are pretty emotional about this; I am not."
Which part of my post made you think i am emotional? Rather than just pointing out what i think is fair.
"I don’t think it’s helpful to tell a forum member they really aren’t needed in the forum the minute they point out something negative about Iceco or their experience."
People tell me negative stuff all the time, proof is in the thread, and i always do my best to make sure ICECO is fair to them and vice versa. This is no different from my end, only difference is everyone else so far has been very reasonable and i am thankful for that.
"You set yourself up as the middle man to help forum members with customer service issues - “just leave the forum”isn’t exactly excellent customer service or supporting the forum members."
I didn't tell you to leave the forums, i said IF you are this unreasonable over aesthetic damage and demand that ICECO take a heavy loss every time the shipping companies are too rough on their packages, then we (members of GB) are better off without you. It means if you insist on staying, then i insist on you being more reasonable. This is simply because if they paid shipping both ways and replace a fridge every time there is a dent, versus just replacing dented pieces or offer partial refund, then they'd go out of business and we would be left with only Costway generic compressors or ridiculous prices in terms of options. You don't have to leave, but if you insist on staying, then stop just claiming you care about what's best for the group as a whole as opposed to whats best for yourself. What's best for everyone is if everyone is fair to each other on both sides (Mud and ICECO).
Notice how everyone else was happy to get a partial refund, but you only "considered a partial refund" versus just "send another one". Your expectations are too high and enough of that can ruin it for everyone, and thus make it not worth it for ICECO to give the entire community the best prices found anywhere. You choosing to care more about dents that are purely aesthetic, than to reasonably meet ICECO in the middle, is the kind of thing that may ruin it for everyone. I am trying to look out for all members, If someone is being unreasonable when participating, then i'm going to let them know we are better off without them only if they continue acting that way. The choice is then up to them if they want to continue being unreasonable, or to try to meet us in the middle.
FYI, I am not a mod and even if i was i wouldn't tell people to leave, as everyone has just as much of a right to be here as i do. I can, however, point out the fact that we are better off without anyone who isn't willing to reasonably meet us in the middle anytime there is a hiccup. And there will be hiccups along the way i have tried to make that fact very clear.
My recommendation is to have them mail you the 2 metal plates and corner protector, and i will personally show you how to put them on if needed; maybe ask for a little cash for your time/someone else to put it in. You think that's unfair and i think shipping the entire unit round trip and spending hundreds on shipping, versus way less on replacement plates, is unfair. Surely there is an answer somewhere in the middle that works, and we won't get there by getting emotional and jumping to conclusions too early. Times like this i wished Lu had sent me a VL65 instead, so i can just trade it to you as i really don't care about aesthetics and would be happy to have yours. I would try to fix the dent and secure the plate back in of course, since it's free and doesn't take much time to do so.
Oh and i love the view out the back by the way, nice place! Beautiful table and floor too (love the color on the floor).
We do not know this, whether they choose to self insure. We do know that it takes time to determine how much insurance will cover, and that was my point that it could take weeks before they know, and that the best any Rep can do for now is guess. Reps are human, and they don't always get it right; this becomes more difficult when there are no damage estimates from a repair shop. For now i am saying that you are being unreasonable by jumping to conclusion and saying that the way they handle things is "unacceptable". You want a more fair estimate then give them time and work with them to provide information they need to file with shipping company, rather than just jump to conclusions and judge the entire business because you didn't think the first offer from the ICECO rep was reasonable. Until you showed us the side angle, it just looked like your metal plate can just be secured back in with a missing screw. The side angle shows that the side plate also needs to be replaced for aesthetic reasons. Shipping 2 replacement plates costs much less than shipping a fridge both ways and will get your fridge looking new in the same amount of time, but you want them to pay for shipping both ways for an entire fridge and take a bigger loss, that i see as unnecessary. Again, these are aesthetics issues resulting from shipping that they are trying to work with you on, but you jumped to conclusions instead of trying to work with them. Explain to them why you think 30 is unreasonable like you did here, rather than take it personal when the rep was trying their best to guess the damage and then blast ICECO for it. You think 30 is unreasonable, and i think asking for shipping 2 ways for entire fridges versus just sending replacement metal plates that takes a few minutes to put in is unreasonable. So meet in the middle and talk to them... rather than just bash them for it.
"What really needs to happen is you and Lu digest this feedback from a customer who cares and improve the process. "
Actions speak louder than words, brother. You claim you care about improving the process but you are being unreasonable in your demands. It sounds like they are trying to work with you while you expect too much. Only way to improve is to be fair to both sides, and not start a precedent of "customer is always right" and should always get what they demand.
"I can tell from your post above you are pretty emotional about this; I am not."
Which part of my post made you think i am emotional? Rather than just pointing out what i think is fair.
"I don’t think it’s helpful to tell a forum member they really aren’t needed in the forum the minute they point out something negative about Iceco or their experience."
People tell me negative stuff all the time, proof is in the thread, and i always do my best to make sure ICECO is fair to them and vice versa. This is no different from my end, only difference is everyone else so far has been very reasonable and i am thankful for that.
"You set yourself up as the middle man to help forum members with customer service issues - “just leave the forum”isn’t exactly excellent customer service or supporting the forum members."
I didn't tell you to leave the forums, i said IF you are this unreasonable over aesthetic damage and demand that ICECO take a heavy loss every time the shipping companies are too rough on their packages, then we (members of GB) are better off without you. It means if you insist on staying, then i insist on you being more reasonable. This is simply because if they paid shipping both ways and replace a fridge every time there is a dent, versus just replacing dented pieces or offer partial refund, then they'd go out of business and we would be left with only Costway generic compressors or ridiculous prices in terms of options. You don't have to leave, but if you insist on staying, then stop just claiming you care about what's best for the group as a whole as opposed to whats best for yourself. What's best for everyone is if everyone is fair to each other on both sides (Mud and ICECO).
Notice how everyone else was happy to get a partial refund, but you only "considered a partial refund" versus just "send another one". Your expectations are too high and enough of that can ruin it for everyone, and thus make it not worth it for ICECO to give the entire community the best prices found anywhere. You choosing to care more about dents that are purely aesthetic, than to reasonably meet ICECO in the middle, is the kind of thing that may ruin it for everyone. I am trying to look out for all members, If someone is being unreasonable when participating, then i'm going to let them know we are better off without them only if they continue acting that way. The choice is then up to them if they want to continue being unreasonable, or to try to meet us in the middle.
FYI, I am not a mod and even if i was i wouldn't tell people to leave, as everyone has just as much of a right to be here as i do. I can, however, point out the fact that we are better off without anyone who isn't willing to reasonably meet us in the middle anytime there is a hiccup. And there will be hiccups along the way i have tried to make that fact very clear.
My recommendation is to have them mail you the 2 metal plates and corner protector, and i will personally show you how to put them on if needed; maybe ask for a little cash for your time/someone else to put it in. You think that's unfair and i think shipping the entire unit round trip and spending hundreds on shipping, versus way less on replacement plates, is unfair. Surely there is an answer somewhere in the middle that works, and we won't get there by getting emotional and jumping to conclusions too early. Times like this i wished Lu had sent me a VL65 instead, so i can just trade it to you as i really don't care about aesthetics and would be happy to have yours. I would try to fix the dent and secure the plate back in of course, since it's free and doesn't take much time to do so.
Oh and i love the view out the back by the way, nice place! Beautiful table and floor too (love the color on the floor).
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First things I should say:
Just received my 35L and accessory lids to go up to 52L. Very surprised and pleased to have it arrive in only a few days.
Very well packaged with 3/4 inch of white styrofoam sheets on all sides inside the box and additional 3/4" of blue foam for the top and bottom shrink-wrapped outside the box. Minimal handling dents in the box, would not have raised an issue upon delivery if I had been present.
Nevertheless, there is a good sized dent in the front corner of the fridge by the control panel. From all appearances this could have occurred before shipping. There is also a spot rubbed/scraped through the enamel inside the fridge, evidently made by contact with some rusty metal (but there is no rusty metal present).
Just received my 35L and accessory lids to go up to 52L. Very surprised and pleased to have it arrive in only a few days.
Very well packaged with 3/4 inch of white styrofoam sheets on all sides inside the box and additional 3/4" of blue foam for the top and bottom shrink-wrapped outside the box. Minimal handling dents in the box, would not have raised an issue upon delivery if I had been present.
Nevertheless, there is a good sized dent in the front corner of the fridge by the control panel. From all appearances this could have occurred before shipping. There is also a spot rubbed/scraped through the enamel inside the fridge, evidently made by contact with some rusty metal (but there is no rusty metal present).
And this is what I had in the works when my daughter came up to say there was a big box in the driveway:
(have not read through after SharpeCat's #554 yet)
First off, no offense meant to anyone and I don't want to be dismissive or overly short/terse BUT I am not going to accidentally make this conversation the focus of my weekend -
SharpeCat I think you are quite wrong on several points -maybe most points.
There are several vantage points from which to consider the issue at hand.
As the coordinator of a "group buy" your particular position is the most unusual and therefore, quite simply, least relevant to most people.
The shipper determines the method and details of shipping (or options to be selected by the buyer) and is responsible for the product being delivered to the buyer in the appropriate/described condition. This includes consideration of the need/desirability/amount of insurance through the shipper - based on the seller's knowledge and tolerance for the risks involved.
The shipper initiates any claim with UPS - with or without the participation of the recipient, with or without benefit to the recipient. This is out of the hands of the buyer.
For all appearances the vast majority of people participating in this and the previous buys have gotten the agreed product, in appropriate condition, for the agreed (very attractive) price. THIS IN NO WAY invalidates the concerns/claims of those having a different experience.
Some of the damage people have shown is in fact minimal and what many would find at least understandable and acceptable ~perhaps not worth reporting and well compensated for (IMO) via a small refund, replacement part, t-shirt, or just an apology.
Other photos show damage that is absolutely in the "We will make this right with a call-tag for return-shipping and a replacement unit or full refund. We are terribly sorry for the inconvenience - Please let us know your preference and it will be taken care of right away" category.
I would at this point call your attention back to all your descriptions and assurances that ICECO is, and would be, a company providing top-notch customer service for the long-haul.
Among all the participants in this group-buy only you participated for the good of the community (thank you) and only you received benefit just for that participation (two fridges - good for you).
Everyone else, to my knowledge, entered into a purchase agreement with every reasonable expectation of getting full quality products and customer service at the agreed price.
(have not read through after SharpeCat's #554 yet)
First off, no offense meant to anyone and I don't want to be dismissive or overly short/terse BUT I am not going to accidentally make this conversation the focus of my weekend -
SharpeCat I think you are quite wrong on several points -maybe most points.
There are several vantage points from which to consider the issue at hand.
As the coordinator of a "group buy" your particular position is the most unusual and therefore, quite simply, least relevant to most people.
The shipper determines the method and details of shipping (or options to be selected by the buyer) and is responsible for the product being delivered to the buyer in the appropriate/described condition. This includes consideration of the need/desirability/amount of insurance through the shipper - based on the seller's knowledge and tolerance for the risks involved.
The shipper initiates any claim with UPS - with or without the participation of the recipient, with or without benefit to the recipient. This is out of the hands of the buyer.
For all appearances the vast majority of people participating in this and the previous buys have gotten the agreed product, in appropriate condition, for the agreed (very attractive) price. THIS IN NO WAY invalidates the concerns/claims of those having a different experience.
Some of the damage people have shown is in fact minimal and what many would find at least understandable and acceptable ~perhaps not worth reporting and well compensated for (IMO) via a small refund, replacement part, t-shirt, or just an apology.
Other photos show damage that is absolutely in the "We will make this right with a call-tag for return-shipping and a replacement unit or full refund. We are terribly sorry for the inconvenience - Please let us know your preference and it will be taken care of right away" category.
I would at this point call your attention back to all your descriptions and assurances that ICECO is, and would be, a company providing top-notch customer service for the long-haul.
Among all the participants in this group-buy only you participated for the good of the community (thank you) and only you received benefit just for that participation (two fridges - good for you).
Everyone else, to my knowledge, entered into a purchase agreement with every reasonable expectation of getting full quality products and customer service at the agreed price.
Thank you for your complements - if the parts are swappable that would be awesome.
- Thread starter
- #560
"And this is what I had in the works when my daughter came up to say there was a big box in the driveway:
(have not read through after SharpeCat's #554 yet)
First off, no offense meant to anyone and I don't want to be dismissive or overly short/terse BUT I am not going to accidentally make this conversation the focus of my weekend -"
None taken, i do appreciate you taking the time to share your experience and thoughts.
"SharpeCat I think you are quite wrong on several points -maybe most points."
You have to be more specific, but i am in no rush though and do not want to interrupt your weekend plans. If i am wrong i do want to know and i will change. However, after reading your post i am not sure what point you are making about me being wrong on most points. Am i wrong to say he is being unreasonable by jumping to conclusions and not looking for a solution that is more fair to both sides?
"There are several vantage points from which to consider the issue at hand."
As the coordinator of a "group buy" your particular position is the most unusual and therefore, quite simply, least relevant to most people.
The shipper determines the method and details of shipping (or options to be selected by the buyer) and is responsible for the product being delivered to the buyer in the appropriate/described condition. This includes consideration of the need/desirability/amount of insurance through the shipper - based on the seller's knowledge and tolerance for the risks involved.
The shipper initiates any claim with UPS - with or without the participation of the recipient, with or without benefit to the recipient. This is out of the hands of the buyer."
I never argued this, in fact i said that it takes time to do this and that he needs to wait and talk to them to get a more "fair" refund if he thinks 30 is unfair. For the shipper to file a claim they need documentation to show the extent of the damage. My whole point is that its not reasonable to jump to conclusion and judge the whole process as "unacceptable" because he didn't like the first offer (Which i'm guessing is made based on information he provided them), and that instead of jumping to conclusion and initiating a claim with paypal, he could've just as easily explained to them why he thinks 30 is unfair. The issue isn't whether or not ICECO should file a claim with shipping, or that shipping should ultimately pay for this, the issue is how do we best handle this in a way that is fair to everyone. To do that we need to properly assess the damage and communicate that to ICECO, and we can't do that by jumping to conclusions and labeling their Service as "unacceptable" and initiating paypal claim after 1 email response from them with an offer.
"For all appearances the vast majority of people participating in this and the previous buys have gotten the agreed product, in appropriate condition, for the agreed (very attractive) price. THIS IN NO WAY invalidates the concerns/claims of those having a different experience."
I never said it invalidates the concerns of those who run into "hiccups", but i have said that previous members who ran into hiccups were more reasonable in giving ICECO a proper chance to fix things before jumping to conclusions.
"Some of the damage people have shown is in fact minimal and what many would find at least understandable and acceptable ~perhaps not worth reporting and well compensated for (IMO) via a small refund, replacement part, t-shirt, or just an apology.
Other photos show damage that is absolutely in the "We will make this right with a call-tag for return-shipping and a replacement unit or full refund. We are terribly sorry for the inconvenience - Please let us know your preference and it will be taken care of right away" category."
I honestly have not seen a picture that is absolutely in the latter category, as all we have seen so far is minor aesthetic damages, with @rsemidwest being the worst one i have noticed here.
"I would at this point call your attention back to all your descriptions and assurances that ICECO is, and would be, a company providing top-notch customer service for the long-haul."
I have said many times that response time for customer service can be slow, but rest asssured that if you give them a chance that they are good people and will eventually make things right. I never once claimed "top-notch" customer service as i have stated several times that they are limited in staff (for helping with our GB), as well as stated several times that the language barrier is present as well. The issue here is that it's unreasonable to jump to conclusions when it doesn't seem like he is really giving them a fair chance.
"Among all the participants in this group-buy only you participated for the good of the community (thank you) and only you received benefit just for that participation (two fridges - good for you)."
1 fridge so far, and 1 GOPRO (thanks and thanks!). And i would not be so quick to assume that there aren't other members who participated to help the community as well. Some of our members did not need a fridge and ended up buying 5+ for friends and family. Thank you for the kind words.
"Everyone else, to my knowledge, entered into a purchase agreement with every reasonable expectation of getting full quality products and customer service at the agreed price."
Again, as not to mislead anyone. Customer service can be a little slow, but if you give them a chance, they will try their best to make things right. When you go in threatening paypal dispute and judging their way as "unacceptable" after 1 email, then that doesn't give them a chance now does it?
As far as your dents go, i'd send them an email with as much detail as you can (pictures), and please be patient as they try to resolve it for you.
(have not read through after SharpeCat's #554 yet)
First off, no offense meant to anyone and I don't want to be dismissive or overly short/terse BUT I am not going to accidentally make this conversation the focus of my weekend -
"None taken, i do appreciate you taking the time to share your experience and thoughts.
"SharpeCat I think you are quite wrong on several points -maybe most points."
You have to be more specific, but i am in no rush though and do not want to interrupt your weekend plans. If i am wrong i do want to know and i will change. However, after reading your post i am not sure what point you are making about me being wrong on most points. Am i wrong to say he is being unreasonable by jumping to conclusions and not looking for a solution that is more fair to both sides?
"There are several vantage points from which to consider the issue at hand."
As the coordinator of a "group buy" your particular position is the most unusual and therefore, quite simply, least relevant to most people.
The shipper determines the method and details of shipping (or options to be selected by the buyer) and is responsible for the product being delivered to the buyer in the appropriate/described condition. This includes consideration of the need/desirability/amount of insurance through the shipper - based on the seller's knowledge and tolerance for the risks involved.
The shipper initiates any claim with UPS - with or without the participation of the recipient, with or without benefit to the recipient. This is out of the hands of the buyer."
I never argued this, in fact i said that it takes time to do this and that he needs to wait and talk to them to get a more "fair" refund if he thinks 30 is unfair. For the shipper to file a claim they need documentation to show the extent of the damage. My whole point is that its not reasonable to jump to conclusion and judge the whole process as "unacceptable" because he didn't like the first offer (Which i'm guessing is made based on information he provided them), and that instead of jumping to conclusion and initiating a claim with paypal, he could've just as easily explained to them why he thinks 30 is unfair. The issue isn't whether or not ICECO should file a claim with shipping, or that shipping should ultimately pay for this, the issue is how do we best handle this in a way that is fair to everyone. To do that we need to properly assess the damage and communicate that to ICECO, and we can't do that by jumping to conclusions and labeling their Service as "unacceptable" and initiating paypal claim after 1 email response from them with an offer.
"For all appearances the vast majority of people participating in this and the previous buys have gotten the agreed product, in appropriate condition, for the agreed (very attractive) price. THIS IN NO WAY invalidates the concerns/claims of those having a different experience."
I never said it invalidates the concerns of those who run into "hiccups", but i have said that previous members who ran into hiccups were more reasonable in giving ICECO a proper chance to fix things before jumping to conclusions.
"Some of the damage people have shown is in fact minimal and what many would find at least understandable and acceptable ~perhaps not worth reporting and well compensated for (IMO) via a small refund, replacement part, t-shirt, or just an apology.
Other photos show damage that is absolutely in the "We will make this right with a call-tag for return-shipping and a replacement unit or full refund. We are terribly sorry for the inconvenience - Please let us know your preference and it will be taken care of right away" category."
I honestly have not seen a picture that is absolutely in the latter category, as all we have seen so far is minor aesthetic damages, with @rsemidwest being the worst one i have noticed here.
"I would at this point call your attention back to all your descriptions and assurances that ICECO is, and would be, a company providing top-notch customer service for the long-haul."
I have said many times that response time for customer service can be slow, but rest asssured that if you give them a chance that they are good people and will eventually make things right. I never once claimed "top-notch" customer service as i have stated several times that they are limited in staff (for helping with our GB), as well as stated several times that the language barrier is present as well. The issue here is that it's unreasonable to jump to conclusions when it doesn't seem like he is really giving them a fair chance.
"Among all the participants in this group-buy only you participated for the good of the community (thank you) and only you received benefit just for that participation (two fridges - good for you)."
1 fridge so far, and 1 GOPRO (thanks and thanks!). And i would not be so quick to assume that there aren't other members who participated to help the community as well. Some of our members did not need a fridge and ended up buying 5+ for friends and family. Thank you for the kind words.
"Everyone else, to my knowledge, entered into a purchase agreement with every reasonable expectation of getting full quality products and customer service at the agreed price."
Again, as not to mislead anyone. Customer service can be a little slow, but if you give them a chance, they will try their best to make things right. When you go in threatening paypal dispute and judging their way as "unacceptable" after 1 email, then that doesn't give them a chance now does it?
As far as your dents go, i'd send them an email with as much detail as you can (pictures), and please be patient as they try to resolve it for you.
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