Anyone Made Your Own Front Control Arms?

[Tools R Us]

I have OME J's with 1.5" spacers, setting a hair taller than 5" overstock height.

Looked into tube, round and square, my feeling was it would need to be at least 1/4" probably 3/8" would be better and 2" OD, that would be difficult to reliably attach the narrow 1.3" bushing holders to. Went with the I beam because it allowed more design options. I prefer the S shape arms, they have better clearance behind the tire. The downside is shooting a bunch of wire to weld them up, but I have plenty of wire!

 

[JasonM]

Tools-R-Us

Did you have to lengthen the long side of the arm? Or is it the same lenth as stock? I'm just wondering if you kept it the same length, did it reduce your wheel base by an inche or so?

 

[clownmidget]

Tools - the only thing that should be below your axle is air or rocks now go design a 4-link kit for the 80...

 

[Tools R Us]

Tools-R-Us

Did you have to lengthen the long side of the arm? Or is it the same lenth as stock? I'm just wondering if you kept it the same length, did it reduce your wheel base by an inche or so?

I lengthened them just enough to move the axle back to stock location.

 

[FJBen]

As it has already been pointed out, a lot of folks have dinked around with the front control arms trying to balance travel, articulation and caster (driveability) while keeping it balanced with the rear 4-link. It can eat up a lot of time and effort so maybe go with an easier mod to the stock arms before you break out the complete fabrication. At that point you really would be better off going 3/4-link up front. That will net you more than you'll be able to get with the stock axle mounts/stock frame mounts in all regards. Good luck.

Agreed, if you are just looking to fix caster, there are other ways, like the Caster plates etc. If you are looking to get a little bit more flex, it can be done via the "poor mans 3 link" ie: pulling one of the front bolts on the arms when you are wheeling. I get pretty nice flex close to matched (will be better with better shock positioning) and good on-road driving as normal. Only thing I will do it beef up the brackets to make sure.



https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=95271&highlight=RTI
here is my thread, and my observations/experiments to get more flex out of the stock setup. Actually pretty simple things will help flex more.

 

[Tools R Us]

Tools - the only thing that should be below your axle is air or rocks ...

I prefer rocks!

... now go design a 4-link kit for the 80...

Up to this point all of the mods on my junk have been bolt on, but just ordered a 4x4 labs bumper kit, so once the decision is made to cut up the frame the slippery slope starts!

I may wind up with a 3 link, but the tie rod location makes it less than ideal for my lift height. The tie rod is exactly where I would prefer to mount the lower links and when the arms are converted to links they move more in relationship to the axle/tie rod requiring more link to tie rod clearance, reducing clearance under the links.

The V.2 arm plan gains about .5" under the axle and 1.5"+ at the tie rod area, if that setup nets good flex and trail ride I will probably be happy, if not on to V.3+. The radius arm setup has some handling and the tie rod skid plate advantages that I like, if it can be tuned to also flex, it will work for my uses.

 

[kennyv0826]

Have you ever tried removing the upper link off just one side?

That does help articulation for sure, but it hurts clearance when the link pulls away from the axle. I don't think I would want to drive like that on the road either so it would require a HUGE (and very strong) cotter pin or something similar to that to enable quick connect and disconnect.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

That does help articulation for sure, but it hurts clearance when the link pulls away from the axle. I don't think I would want to drive like that on the road either so it would require a HUGE (and very strong) cotter pin or something similar to that to enable quick connect and disconnect.

Kenny on NW-sickboy truck there is no link to pull away when the top link is remove and no clearance lost. Toolsrus runs only the rear bushing on one side and both on the other and claims it tracks fine on the road. The only differance he notes on the road with his 3 bushing setup is a different feeling under hard breaking.

 

[Nay]

The benefit of a 3-link is you can use solid joints at all of the mount points. On a taller lift having zero play in the "bushings" is a great way to tighten it up.

I'm not sure I'd trust a 3 link just because of the single point of failure. It's been done on plenty of seriously hardcore rigs...you just have to beef and brace that single upper bracket.

There is a lot more to consider here than the links. You have issues like suspension unloading due to radius arm design, you need to consider arm lengths, roll axis, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Flex is never gained as a completely independent variable - even the poor man's link allows the arm to drop below the bracket, so you lose clearance to the rocks on the side that is drooping. That's a questionable advantage.

If the 40 is your trail rig, why not stay at 3"-4", keep the stock arms, use caster plates for caster adjustment and save yourself all the trouble and aggravation. In my opinion, once you start hacking up an 80 you're working on the wrong rig, because it's too big to take advantage of all that added flex anyway.

Nay

 

[Taz]

well put Nay I couldn't agree more.

 

[ats4x4dotcom]

if your fabbing arms, just go the extra mile and fab a 4 link, it works well with pivots, flexes freely, and then lets you start on shock mounts etc for longer shocks to use the extra travel available.

A 4 link isnt much more work than arms, and gives adjustment.

Then your steering arm, and panhard rod will be the next travel limiters.

Anothe roption is machine the arms to take a heim joint, and circlip retainers, so it flexes freely, and press the arms to improve castor, or fit castor plates.

 

[kennyv0826]

The radius arm setup has some handling and the tie rod skid plate advantages that I like, if it can be tuned to also flex, it will work for my uses.

I have been seriously considering the idea of going rasius arm up front too. I had that set up on my last rig. I used Rubicon Express radius arms for a Wrangler and made them work great for my Pathfinder (on Toyota axles of course). Plenty of adjustability and it would be much easier to do on the 80 since it comes stock with a straight axle up front.

Let me know if you go this route cuz I would love to see it.

 

[Tools R Us]

if your fabbing arms, just go the extra mile and fab a 4 link, it works well with pivots, flexes freely, and then lets you start on shock mounts etc for longer shocks to use the extra travel available.

A 4 link isnt much more work than arms, and gives adjustment.

For my use four link would probably be overkill, the arms aren't that much work to make. I am not looking to make a flexy flier, just free up the front a bit so that it better matches the rear, the new arms have made a big difference.

Don't need adjustability, happy with the lift and springs that I have and don't plan to changing them.

Will be installing longer Bilsteins, don't see why I "need" a four link to do that?

Then your steering arm, and panhard rod will be the next travel limiters.

Anothe roption is machine the arms to take a heim joint, and circlip retainers, so it flexes freely, and press the arms to improve castor, or fit castor plates.

I prefer the comfort of bushings for my rig, don't want hard joints and their vibration and maintenance issues in my daily driver. Not a big fan of caster plates, they reduce clearance and add to the leverage force on the brackets.

 

[kennyv0826]

Kenny on NW-sickboy truck there is no link to pull away when the top link is remove and no clearance lost. Toolsrus runs only the rear bushing on one side and both on the other and claims it tracks fine on the road. The only differance he notes on the road with his 3 bushing setup is a different feeling under hard breaking.

How did he avoid the link pulling away? Did he cut the front part of the link off? Or do you mean he unbolts the rear portion of the link instead of the front? I've not seen that done but it would still hang down, but not hang up as badly I guess. Please expand on this.

When you say it "is a different feeling under hard braking" what does that entail? Does it wander or feel unsafe? My goal is to have the 80 drive great on the road and still flex great off road and have a cushy ride on and off road. I know it won't be as good as stock but if I'm close that's all I care about.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

How did he avoid the link pulling away? Did he cut the front part of the link off? Or do you mean he unbolts the rear portion of the link instead of the front? I've not seen that done but it would still hang down, but not hang up as badly I guess. Please expand on this..

Toolsrus arms are custom one of a kind design using a 3 factory bushing set on the axle. He has the build and picture posted - You need to search because Im too lazy to look.

When you say it "is a different feeling under hard braking" what does that entail? Does it wander or feel unsafe? My goal is to have the 80 drive great on the road and still flex great off road and have a cushy ride on and off road. I know it won't be as good as stock but if I'm close that's all I care about.

The front corner drops a little more then before. Tracking is much better then before with OME caster correction bushing. If you are looking for a cushy ride, look to valveable shocks because you wont get it with OME shocks.

 

[NW-sickboy]

Edit, I would have done a cut and turn with mine.. makes no sense not tooo. better caster than stock, better pinion angle... really thats the thing I would differently.

 

[FJBen]

That does help articulation for sure, but it hurts clearance when the link pulls away from the axle. I don't think I would want to drive like that on the road either so it would require a HUGE (and very strong) cotter pin or something similar to that to enable quick connect and disconnect.

Here is how far that arm drops down...not very much on mine, of course you could probably force it more, but you only have so much shock travel. With that pin pulled and correct shock placement, you can have a balanced travel.

here is the flex with the bolt, AND shock removed to work on shock placement. I could have went slightly further up, but I was against the wall with my spare tire. The spring is unseated at this point by an inch or two so I doubt you would really want to go much more, or even this much. Retaining it might help the balace. But at this point, I can easily use all 11" of that shock travel, which is a balanced system, and PLENTY of flex for a big rig like the 80. My caster is good, and my flex is very balanced.

Now if you want a whole lot more flex and don't like this idea, then you are basically into 3-link, 4-link territory.

 

[Tools R Us]

I have been seriously considering the idea of going rasius arm up front too...

The stock setup is radius arms.

How did he avoid the link pulling away? Did he cut the front part of the link off? Or do you mean he unbolts the rear portion of the link instead of the front? I've not seen that done but it would still hang down, but not hang up as badly I guess. Please expand on this.

When you say it "is a different feeling under hard braking" what does that entail? Does it wander or feel unsafe? My goal is to have the 80 drive great on the road and still flex great off road and have a cushy ride on and off road. I know it won't be as good as stock but if I'm close that's all I care about.

The left arm only has one bushing at the axle. Pictures and thoughts;

http://copperstatecruisers.org/tech/80_series_arms.htm

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=94176

 

[Nay]

I'm just a contrarian here. I think the limited flex and rigidity of the 80's front end is a strength, because it is such a heavy vehicle with a long wheelbase. The fact that the front end doesn't compress back and push down with an overly flexy front end allows this tank to climb a lot better than it should for its size and weight.

I really thought I would redesign the front end, but with use I have come to value it. The rigidity controls 35's nicely onroad and the stock arms are pretty much indestructible sliders offroad that still climb well. Given it can already handle any trail that I would take a rig this big on, the only real issue is caster. Cut and turn is the best solution.

Nay

 

[landtank]

Cut and turn is the best solution.

I'm probably partial on this but I think my plate solution is better than cut and turn. While it offers all the advantages of a cut and turn it also keeps the diff in it's proper position for better lubrication. Pretty much bolt on as well.