Anyone in AZ looking to sell a 100-series?

[re_guderian]

seriously, its way cool that guys like shotts actually wheel the rigs they have, but in my opinion the newer rigs stand a much greater chance for failure than older ones in the boonies.

I used to think like that, but I have yet to see that supposition turn into reality. There's something to be said for higher reliability, newer rigs. I was so worried my 60 would crap out, I carried a mountain of tools and spare parts. And it did. And I could fix it. But there's a difference between carrying tools and parts with the expectation that you'll be using them, v "just in case".

I'm obviously not a master mechanic, but what can break (what is likely to break, that isn't a high reliability part, like the ECU) on a 80/100 that can't be fixed to get it home? I ask this kind of seriously, and would like some real world experience, not just "what if my injector clogged?" or "The ECU just up and died" scenarios. My FJ60 had smog pump freeze, thrown belts, dead fuel pump (PO had replace mech with elec), carb float issues, blown seal in brake MC, dead alternator, PS pump major leakage, etc. etc. all of which did/could suck on the trail (the fuel pump failure was in my driveway, thankfully and ever after I carried a spare), but were repairable to get me home.

Oh, and to :shotts:, how does a lift and different spring/shock rates affect VSC? I would think that even on road the different roll rates of the car would affect the yaw sensors. Anyone actually KNOW?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I used to think like that, but I have yet to see that supposition turn into reality. There's something to be said for higher reliability, newer rigs. I was so worried my 60 would crap out, I carried a mountain of tools and spare parts. And it did. And I could fix it. But there's a difference between carrying tools and parts with the expectation that you'll be using them, v "just in case".

I'm obviously not a master mechanic, but what can break (what is likely to break, that isn't a high reliability part, like the ECU) on a 80/100 that can't be fixed to get it home? I ask this kind of seriously, and would like some real world experience, not just "what if my injector clogged?" or "The ECU just up and died" scenarios. My FJ60 had smog pump freeze, thrown belts, dead fuel pump (PO had replace mech with elec), carb float issues, blown seal in brake MC, dead alternator, PS pump major leakage, etc. etc. all of which did/could suck on the trail (the fuel pump failure was in my driveway, thankfully and ever after I carried a spare), but were repairable to get me home.

Oh, and to :shotts:, how does a lift and different spring/shock rates affect VSC? I would think that even on road the different roll rates of the car would affect the yaw sensors. Anyone actually KNOW?

Hi. Horse man here. Here's 2 cents:

1 cent...from Robbie...Slee's master mechanic (ex now...Robbie's moved on): Robbie said on a previous thread that the 100 is more in-the field repairable and reliable. I can't dupe his words or know what he means though he stood up for the 100 in this area.

1 cent...from me...regarding the TRAC/VSC changes: My 100 has been built in stages. They were:
1. 33-inch tires
2. 2.5-inch lift and 33-inch tires
3. 3-inch lift and 33-inch tires
4. 3-inch lift and 35-inch tires

Since day one through today I've never been able to notice a change in off-road traction control or on/off road VSC operation. The system must rely on other factors not effected much (or at all) by lifts and/or tire sizes. Only owning such a vehicle and putting it through all the paces would reveal this.

There was ONE instance in which VSC didn't work properly...though in reality IT DID! Here's what I mean....
We popped on the Slee Rear bumper AND added new rear OME shocks. We headed to Prescott. While driving 89A from Wilhoit to Prescott (severe twisties) if I took a hairpin too fast the VSC kicked in and power was actually cut. It then did it every time I pushed it too hard. THIS WAS A FIRST! I though, oh crap, that heavy bumper messes things up! This is gonna suck. I can't live with this.
We returned to Phoenix and had things looked over. WHOA BABY! My mechanic forgot to tighten one top rear shock nut. The shock was super loose and wiggly. He tightened it up. That was 10 months ago and VSC has never activated on pavement again. So, REALITY IS...VSC was kicking in because something WAS WRONG and possibly unsafe! It's an amazing system.

 

[goodtimes]

Bman, here is some food for thought on your "anti-electronic anything that controls anything" stance.

YOU may be able to control your vehicle, but what about the "other" guy? You know, the guy who came around the corner too fast and is now on a collision course with you and your family...with 110mph closure between you two?

Or, put another way.....is it worth having the systems installed and operating if it saves just one life? No? What if that one life it saved was your daughters? Would it be worth it then?

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[-Spike-]

Please add $10,000 to the cost of every vehicle sold in America so we don't have to suffer the effects of Darwinism.

-Spike

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Please add $10,000 to the cost of every vehicle sold in America so we don't have to suffer the effects of Darwinism.

-Spike

Were the electric goodies the only upgrades between the 80 and 100 series? I think for the $10K added cost you got a lot more than that in the 100.

Realy now...what does it cost to add? Vehicles already have ABS. You add a couple of sensors and some chip with programming. WhaLa...for a few bucks your safety factor rises 10-fold. That's why you see this stuff everywhere. The last generation Tacoma even offered it in the Limited. TRAC too. Fact is...today, buyers are demanding it. (Whether you or I like the systems or not)

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Were the electric goodies the only upgrades between the 80 and 100 series? I think for the $10K added cost you got a lot more than that in the 100.

Realy now...what does it cost to add? Vehicles already have ABS. You add a couple of sensors and some chip with programming. WhaLa...for a few bucks your safety factor rises 10-fold. That's why you see this stuff everywhere. The last generation Tacoma even offered it in the Limited. TRAC too. Fact is...today, buyers are demanding it. (Whether you or I like the systems or not)

WHOA...I forgot the DEAD HORSE GIF.

 

[goodtimes]

Please add $10,000 to the cost of every vehicle sold in America so we don't have to suffer the effects of Darwinism.

-Spike

Unfortunately, it isn't darwinism when someone else kills you or your family. My point is simply that these devices do exactly what they are designed to do....save lives.

What would be really nice is if people were actually required to learn to drive before being given a license. It would also be nice if people would not push the limits of their ability on public streets, and would have enough common sense and respect for other people as to not create hazardous situations like I previously described. Then we wouldn't need all the crap that keeps getting added to vehicles to make them meet current government safety standards.

FWIW, I agree with Brandons point that these devices are there because 95% of people don't know how to control their vehicle. My jeep has no computer controlled traction, braking, or stability control devices (other than the PCM controlled air lockers), and I don't want any either (for the same reasons Bman mentions). But it is indisputable that these devices are effective when people do not react properly to changing conditions....which is exactly why they are there.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Hey John, can I help you :shotts: . I was just wondering if, on the 100, can you turn off the trac control? My wifes car, 05 Ion 2, a simple push of a button and you turn off the traction control. Just curious.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Hey John, can I help you :shotts: . I was just wondering if, on the 100, can you turn off the trac control? My wifes car, 05 Ion 2, a simple push of a button and you turn off the traction control. Just curious.

Ah, thanks for the battered horse.

Thank God...no. As stated, in the 100 the systems work amazingly well. They never intrude upon one's driving style. To defeat a system so effective only leaves one vulnerable in case an emergency arises. If it's off and that happens, your in trouble.

In sports cars and sloppy SUV's (Sequoia, Escalade, etc) where the systems are intrusive it makes more sense to have a bypass for certain situations. Escalades for example bury themselves in sand. The TRAC cuts power and they sink. An off button would help alot. Not the case in the 100. The 100's TRAC is dual mode. You can blast through sand and mud spinning all 4 tires if you stay on the gas. If you back off the TRAC can kick in if needed.

It's like having PERMANENT 4-wheel drive in the 80 and 100. It's safer because it's always there. If you're in 2WD and something crazy happens you could be screwed. Perm 4WD aids in safety.

Lastly...ABS. It seems like a lot of the old-timers or non-100 owners throw a fit you can't turn off ABS in the 100. They say that's a disadvantage. That's bull! They've never driven a 100. The ABS system in 4-lo is spot-on. Rarely has the ABS ever kicked in when in 4-lo. It has in snow and ice (in my 80s I'd a been screwed) as well as some quick muddy/gravely spots on the trail. Has is ever lengthened my stop when crawling? No. Do I drop off a huge ledge or rock and the brakes not lock? No. If I go down too steep a hill and start sliding will the wheels not lock? No. The brakes on the 100 are 10-fold better than the 80 and anybody who knocks the 100 simply is not familiar with it. The brakes on the 100 work at 100% full power even with the motor OFF. You can stall, run out of gas, whatever and still have 100% brake power/operation. Safety? Yes.

Bottom line: We read about how these systems lower the driving experience in certain magazines. Some, globaly apply that to ALL vehicle types and knock the systems and vehicles. Keep in mind the 100 is a Land Cruiser. It's not the BMW X5 who's system interfered 24/7. BMW did reprogram the exact same system and the next year the X5's handling was dramatically improved. Same system, different software.

If you're a diehard Cruiser owner, I'm bet someday you'll make the change to a 100. Believe it then, just get a 2000+.

Signed, Dead Horse Beater

 

[BMAN]

Bman, here is some food for thought on your "anti-electronic anything that controls anything" stance.

YOU may be able to control your vehicle, but what about the "other" guy? You know, the guy who came around the corner too fast and is now on a collision course with you and your family...with 110mph closure between you two?

Or, put another way.....is it worth having the systems installed and operating if it saves just one life? No? What if that one life it saved was your daughters? Would it be worth it then?

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Brian,

My stance is not "anti-electronic anything that controls anything". As a matter of fact I think fuel injection is some pretty cool stuff. And I got this switch hooked up in my house that turns the porch lights on at 6pm and off at 11:30 then back on at 4:30am and off again at 7:15am. Now that thing is badass! See... I like electrical controlly things.

The other guy is always the unseen factor. And you never can tell what they're gonna do. My point really isn't to say that these systems shouldn't exist, it's more to say that we as drivers should take the responsability to "know how to drive" and do so safely. And that relying on these systems is bad practice IMO.

My daughter has been expressing interest (at 5yo) in Karting. In a couple of years we'll probably get into it as a hobby. Honing her driving skills at an early age is just another tool that I can give her to help keep her alive.

Really, all we can do is try to give ourselves and loved ones all the skills to help us survive. The unforseens are always there and exactly that... unforseen.

Hell, by the time my daughter's old enough to drive, she won't be driving at all. If people like John Shotts and Ralph Nader get there way it'll be more like riding in a cottonball at low speeds then anyway.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Hell, by the time my daughter's old enough to drive, she won't be driving at all. If people like John Shotts and Ralph Nader get there way it'll be more like riding in a cottonball at low speeds then anyway.

How did you know I was planning to build a buggy for the trails?

 

[BMAN]

TurboG

There's a 100 series sitting in a lot on the west side of 40th st between University and the 10. Tried to stop and talk to the guy the other day but he wasn't there. You might try him. No price on the truck but all the crap in his lot is usually for sale.

 

[Turbo G]

Thanks for the info BMAN. I'll check this one out after I get back from my place in San Carlos

 

[Living in the Past]

Does anyone know what the deal is with Big Two Toyota?They had a 2000 LC and treated like it was Chevy pickup and didn't want it on the lot. Said they only get about two LCs a year including used ones. I guess this wouldn't a dealer you would want working on your cruiser, probably don't have anyone who really knowshow to work on them.


John

 

[sleeoffroad]

Not in AZ, but my Turbo 02 is for sale. Matches your screen name

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/for_sale/sof2002/sof_2002.htm