Any down side to airbags?

[kd5kuu]

I've been running Firestone airbags, stock coils, stock dampers, and stock weight for about 4 years now with E rated tires. I consider the airbags indispensable, and not just for towing.

Before the airbags, it was not uncommon for me to have 4-6 people along with enough camping gear to feel the rear end hitting the stops on bumps (even on the highway). With the airbags, I just put 15-30psi in them only when needed and no more bumping. When not needed, I bleed them down to 5psi and have never been able to tell they are there, on road or off road.

Last summer I did have leak from one of the FIrestone-supplied push-in fittings that was easily remedied.

 

[kcjaz]

I’m closing in on a year with my Firestone bags with 2722 springs and they’ve been great. We tow often and and the 40 gallon LRA, Dissent rear swing outs, drawers, and stuff in this thing all the time. When out and about I run 15psi, towing its 60 I think, towing off road I run 30. I’ve never had any issues.

If I had to name a drawback it would have been how to manage the bags. There’s a range of options depending on if you have onboard air or not. We have on board air and use a ARB Linx to manage ours. Occasionally the compressor will fire up while driving to make a small adjustment but that’s rare, we only have that at startup.

For us the pros outweigh the cons but we have a big chunky cruiser with junk in the trunk and we tow often.

Wow, are you really running 2722s with all of that? That’s a lot of weight for that spring rate (275). Your airbags would make a huge difference. What’s your rig weigh?

I’m going 2724 based on discussions with Slee and my own math and our builds souls similar. I must have more lift than you now with 2721s (progressive but would net heavier than the 2722s) and 30mm spacers.

 

[Artie]

Wow, are you really running 2722s with all of that? That’s a lot of weight for that spring rate (275). Your airbags would make a huge difference. What’s your rig weigh?

I’m going 2724 based on discussions with Slee and my own math and our builds souls similar. I must have more lift than you now with 2721s (progressive but would net heavier than the 2722s) and 30mm spacers.

Yeah 2722 is what’s on my build sheet, I bought didn’t build so make of that what you wish.

I included a picture from a visit to the scales, this is roughly 95% of what I’d be at my heaviest while towing, this is fully laden with fuel… 65 gallons and other gear that I didn’t carry in the camper. The rear axle weight includes the 350 pound tongue weight from my trailer. As for driving around weight I really don’t know, this isn’t a Dailey driver so I’ve never weight it as such.

Mine will sag a little when gear is not in the rear so I drive around with 15 psi when not on a trip. It rides great like this, the bags keep it level but aren’t full enough to prevent the springs from doing their job. If there is a break in period for these springs and the begin to lose some of their ‘spring’ than I may wanna move up but as it is now they do what’s needed.

 

[Tex68w]

Who sells the Airman bags for the 200 Series stateside?

 

[Leaky2014]

5080lb, isn't that a little over the GAWR for that axle? My 2014 limit is 4300lb for the rear.

 

[kcjaz]

Yeah 2722 is what’s on my build sheet, I bought didn’t build so make of that what you wish.

I included a picture from a visit to the scales, this is roughly 95% of what I’d be at my heaviest while towing, this is fully laden with fuel… 65 gallons and other gear that I didn’t carry in the camper. The rear axle weight includes the 350 pound tongue weight from my trailer. As for driving around weight I really don’t know, this isn’t a Dailey driver so I’ve never weight it as such.

Mine will sag a little when gear is not in the rear so I drive around with 15 psi when not on a trip. It rides great like this, the bags keep it level but aren’t full enough to prevent the springs from doing their job. If there is a break in period for these springs and the begin to lose some of their ‘spring’ than I may wanna move up but as it is now they do what’s needed.



View attachment 3215860

Thanks. 8000lbs! Awesome. I really need to get weighed. I think I’m a bit under that but in the neighborhood. I’m a bit worried I over did it with my 2724 selection but I picked them because I want to maintain my current lift or a bit higher which would be back to where I was before I added all of the weight. We’ll see…

 

[daneo]

Yeah 2722 is what’s on my build sheet, I bought didn’t build so make of that what you wish.

I included a picture from a visit to the scales, this is roughly 95% of what I’d be at my heaviest while towing, this is fully laden with fuel… 65 gallons and other gear that I didn’t carry in the camper. The rear axle weight includes the 350 pound tongue weight from my trailer. As for driving around weight I really don’t know, this isn’t a Dailey driver so I’ve never weight it as such.

Mine will sag a little when gear is not in the rear so I drive around with 15 psi when not on a trip. It rides great like this, the bags keep it level but aren’t full enough to prevent the springs from doing their job. If there is a break in period for these springs and the begin to lose some of their ‘spring’ than I may wanna move up but as it is now they do what’s needed.



View attachment 3215860

Don’t mean to be a jerk, but that rear axle appears to be 800lbs over its load rating. If there was ever a reason to need insurance, that load would give them cause to invalidate. <backs away slowly into the bushes>

 

[Leaky2014]

Don’t mean to be a jerk, but that rear axle appears to be 800lbs over its load rating. If there was ever a reason to need insurance, that load would give them cause to invalidate. <backs away slowly into the bushes>

 

[FerrisBueller]

Who sells the Airman bags for the 200 Series stateside?

I never found any stateside seller. I did get a quote from Airbagman, which was $242 + $150 shipping = $377 AUD shipped from Australia (which is roughly $260 USD total).

That's why I ended up ordering the Firestone bags from Amazon (approx $100). Apparently the Airbagmans are the Firestone airbags, except they add on the fabric sleeve and the 1/4" loom for the air lines.

 

[Artie]

Don’t mean to be a jerk, but that rear axle appears to be 800lbs over its load rating. If there was ever a reason to need insurance, that load would give them cause to invalidate. <backs away slowly into the bushes>

781 if my calculations are correct.

I’ll reiterate that this is at my almost heaviest and it’s something that has happened once or twice.

I’ve been working on a weight loss plan, moving stuff from the cruiser to the camper is easily done and I’ve done this with a few items and have not hit the scales. I do have a trip coming up in a week or so where I pass these scales, I should get an updated weight and post it here for some progress pic congratulations.

@Leaky2014 and @daneo No need to back away slowly into the bushes, I see fat shaming as motivation and caring for my safety. This forum is quick to call out safety concerns or BS and those are both reasons I stick around.

 

[Artie]

Thanks. 8000lbs! Awesome. I really need to get weighed. I think I’m a bit under that but in the neighborhood. I’m a bit worried I over did it with my 2724 selection but I picked them because I want to maintain my current lift or a bit higher which would be back to where I was before I added all of the weight. We’ll see…

It adds up fast and my trip to the scales was a little shocking. It’s tough to get an estimate at home.

 

[JPRS]

I never found any stateside seller. I did get a quote from Airbagman, which was $242 + $150 shipping = $377 AUD shipped from Australia (which is roughly $260 USD total).

That's why I ended up ordering the Firestone bags from Amazon (approx $100). Apparently the Airbagmans are the Firestone airbags, except they add on the fabric sleeve and the 1/4" loom for the air lines.

^This is true. I've ordered twice from Airbagman out of Australia. They are simply the Firestone bags with a protective sleeve.

By the way, I'm very pleased with mine. I have not noticed a significant decrease in articulation on the trails--but I haven't compared with another stock LC or tested on a RTI ramp. But off-road, I'm usually running a PSI on these in the single digits.

I have run these airbags on cruisers with both E-rated and P tires on stock suspension and have not noticed any squirreliness that wasn't already there in the stock set up. They are quite helpful when I have a tongue weight of 350lb, all while I have the truck loaded with 6 people and their gear. I usually run them at about 15 psi in that situation.

Downside is your stock bump stop is cut and would have to be replaced if you ever wished to go back to the stock setup.

 

[Jerz]

This topic could not have come at a better time as I was researching them. I too will be upgrading my existing tired Dobinson suspension all around to Kings and Dobinson rear coils (working with Ben at Filthy) and did read through @FerrisBueller post about them. Made me think while I'm in there. My use is camping and would rather avoid the saggy butt syndrome during excursions. Have Dissent rear, swing outs, ARB drawers and I am planning the Timbren Active Off-Road bump stops and remove the stock bumps. Not concerned about going back to stock, rig is well beyond that thought.

Before this thread my conclusion was to roll with the new stuff and see how it handles after a few trips while taking measurements of rear droop/sag.

 

[kcjaz]

Downside is your stock bump stop is cut and would have to be replaced if you ever wished to go back to the stock setup.

The stock bump stop you are talking about here is the conical jounce bumper inside the spring coil right? One thing I don't fully understand is does the air bag have to contact the axle at the bottom and the spring mount at the top? Can there be a gap between the top of the air bag and the top mount? Do you cut the OEM jounce bumper to a length that accommodates the height if the airbag (i.e. fill any gap)?

 

[Jerz]

Your questions will be answered within the install manual on this webpage.

Coil-Rite Air Springs for INFINITI, Lexus, Toyota | Firestone 4164

Maintain a balanced load and handling, even in adverse conditions. Shop easy-to-install Firestone Coil-Rite kits for INFINITI, Lexus, and Toyota.

www.firestoneairide.com

Also @FerrisBueller has a pretty good write up on his build page.

 

[kcjaz]

Your questions will be answered within the install manual on this webpage.

Coil-Rite Air Springs for INFINITI, Lexus, Toyota | Firestone 4164

Maintain a balanced load and handling, even in adverse conditions. Shop easy-to-install Firestone Coil-Rite kits for INFINITI, Lexus, and Toyota.

www.firestoneairide.com

Also @FerrisBueller has a pretty good write up on his build page.

Awesome, thanks. So cut them and there is a gap. I had in my head the idea that maybe you needed the top of the airbag to touch the bottom of the cut jounce stop.

 

[JPRS]

Awesome, thanks. So cut them and there is a gap. I had in my head the idea that maybe you needed the top of the airbag to touch the bottom of the cut jounce stop.

I don't remember there being much of a gap. I'll have to go look when I get home later tonight as I don't have the vehicle with me today. I purchased mine from Airbagman in Australia and they sold two different kits based on whether your vehicle was stock or lifted in the rear (lifted about an inch or so). I could be wrong, but I thought the kits contained a different sized Firestone Airbag based on whether you chose stock or lifted as your option at purchase.

 

[JAS4]

I don't remember there being much of a gap. I'll have to go look when I get home later tonight as I don't have the vehicle with me today. I purchased mine from Airbagman in Australia and they sold two different kits based on whether your vehicle was stock or lifted in the rear (lifted about an inch or so). I could be wrong, but I thought the kits contained a different sized Firestone Airbag based on whether you chose stock or lifted as your option at purchase.

Yes, no gap at rest is the target condition. @kcjaz, search this topic and posts from @linuxgod and you’ll find what you seek.

 

[Artie]

I just had a run in with a downside. If you are barely squeezing into your garage hight wise you should remember to air those bags down after airing up for what ever reason. My garage door was just introduced to my action trax just briefly.

 

[kcjaz]

I don't remember there being much of a gap. I'll have to go look when I get home later tonight as I don't have the vehicle with me today. I purchased mine from Airbagman in Australia and they sold two different kits based on whether your vehicle was stock or lifted in the rear (lifted about an inch or so). I could be wrong, but I thought the kits contained a different sized Firestone Airbag based on whether you chose stock or lifted as your option at purchase.

thanks. I see two models on the Airbag man site but the lifted version is out of stock. The actual airbags are Firestone. The 'stock height" version is available but the one for raised height is not. I do not see two versions on the US Firestone site.

I do have a lift (2-3" depending) and am looking at Firestone 4164s. I just don't see another choice from Firestone. that is why I'm thinking there will be a gap. Can someone tell me the Firestone number for the lifted version?