Any down side to airbags?

[FerrisBueller]

thanks. I see two models on the Airbag man site but the lifted version is out of stock. The actual airbags are Firestone. The 'stock height" version is available but the one for raised height is not. I do not see two versions on the US Firestone site.

I do have a lift (2-3" depending) and am looking at Firestone 4164s. I just don't see another choice from Firestone. that is why I'm thinking there will be a gap. Can someone tell me the Firestone number for the lifted version?

There is a different number for the lifted version, but I can't remember it at the moment (I think it was 4168).

I have a 2" lift and purchased the "standard" Firestone 4164s after seeing a few posts around this forum saying that was the correct set when slightly lifted. And those posts were correct, 4164 was a correct fit w/ my 2" lift (barely). I really don't think the 4164s would be tall enough to go beyond a 2" lift, though. If you have a 3" lift, you could try leaving an additional segment on cone bump stop when you're cutting it shorter (or maybe just half of a segment, although that would be more difficult to accomplish.) You can always cut the cone bump stop multiple times if at first it was too long, although I would be paranoid about the potential air leaks from disconnecting and reconnecting the bag's air fitting multiple times...

I've never noticed any gap above or below my airbags while my LC sits on a flat surface. I wouldn't be surprised if a gap is present when one side of the axle is fully extended while offroading.

 

[JPRS]

I just had a run in with a downside. If you are barely squeezing into your garage hight wise you should remember to air those bags down after airing up for what ever reason. My garage door was just introduced to my action trax just briefly.

Haha! I'm laughing because I've done the same thing. Luckily I only tore the seal on the bottom edge of my garage door. I forgot about that downside.

 

[linuxgod]

thanks. I see two models on the Airbag man site but the lifted version is out of stock. The actual airbags are Firestone. The 'stock height" version is available but the one for raised height is not. I do not see two versions on the US Firestone site.

I do have a lift (2-3" depending) and am looking at Firestone 4164s. I just don't see another choice from Firestone. that is why I'm thinking there will be a gap. Can someone tell me the Firestone number for the lifted version?

4129 bags are 1” longer. But as @FerrisBueller points out if you haven’t cut your bump stops down yet you can run either type and just adjust the number of rings you remove to get the right height

 

[Artie]

Haha! I'm laughing because I've done the same thing. Luckily I only tore the seal on the bottom edge of my garage door. I forgot about that downside.

I got lucky and didn’t make contact with the rubber seal and the rest of the interaction was fixed with a framing hammer… like it never happens haha

 

[Gr8Daneger]

I just got a quote from Airbag Man

Bags: $257 usd
Shipping: $104 usd

I can almost buy 3 sets of Firestone bags stateside for that!

 

[kcjaz]

4129 bags are 1” longer. But as @FerrisBueller points out if you haven’t cut your bump stops down yet you can run either type and just adjust the number of rings you remove to get the right height

Thanks! I actually just saw your airbag review on Amazon. Looks like you changed to 4129s from 4164s. I assume due to adding a your lift and you had already trimmed your jounce stops?

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks! I actually just saw your airbag review on Amazon. Looks like you changed to 4129s from 4164s. I assume due to adding a your lift and you had already trimmed your jounce stops?

Yep, a new pair of jounce stops was $100, so when I added the lift I just went with taller bags.

I've since pulled my airbags when I added the rear swingout bumper and upgraded the springs. If you need a small air compressor to inflate them I have one which is currently mounted in my jack storage compartment that I keep meaning to remove. I keep meaning to do it but haven't gotten around to removal.

 

[kcjaz]

Yep, a new pair of jounce stops was $100, so when I added the lift I just went with taller bags.

I've since pulled my airbags when I added the rear swingout bumper and upgraded the springs. If you need a small air compressor to inflate them I have one which is currently mounted in my jack storage compartment that I keep meaning to remove. I keep meaning to do it but haven't gotten around to removal.

Thanks. I'm just going to plumb the bags to my ARB Twin. Doing air lockers at the same time so this should be easy.

On a side not, 4129's are currently unavailable (at lest I nor my installer can find them) anywhere. It looks like Firestone may have discontinuer them. They may be available through Airbag Man but I'm not doing that due to ridiculous cost and time to get them (I need them next week). So will go 4164's and cut jounce stops to suit.

I get the idea that we don't want a big gap between the bottom of the jounce stop and the top of the airbag but IMO, this can't be that precise or super critical simply because they only make 2 sizes that are only 1" different and lift heights are all over the map. most are more than 1", and springs settle over time. The instructions just say to cut at the upper most "joint" on the jounce stop. In may case, I guess I'll leave leave two "joints". I suppose I could install the bags without the jounce stops and set the truck on the ground and measure how much jounce stop I need, but this seems like overkill and not necessary. The only thing that makes me even think about it is that my lift is more like 3" with unloaded cargo.

 

[JAS4]

I researched this a bit some time ago. The 4129 and 4164 “kits” are just a collection of parts. The bellow you seek that was part of the 4129 kit (ie 1” longer) is the 6010 replacement bellow, which you can still source. Just double check my “facts” if you wish to piece it together. Hope that helps.

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks. I'm just going to plumb the bags to my ARB Twin. Doing air lockers at the same time so this should be easy.

On a side not, 4129's are currently unavailable (at lest I nor my installer can find them) anywhere. It looks like Firestone may have discontinuer them. They may be available through Airbag Man but I'm not doing that due to ridiculous cost and time to get them (I need them next week). So will go 4164's and cut jounce stops to suit.

I get the idea that we don't want a big gap between the bottom of the jounce stop and the top of the airbag but IMO, this can't be that precise or super critical simply because they only make 2 sizes that are only 1" different and lift heights are all over the map. most are more than 1", and springs settle over time. The instructions just say to cut at the upper most "joint" on the jounce stop. In may case, I guess I'll leave leave two "joints". I suppose I could install the bags without the jounce stops and set the truck on the ground and measure how much jounce stop I need, but this seems like overkill and not necessary. The only thing that makes me even think about it is that my lift is more like 3" with unloaded cargo.

Timbren makes some aftermarket bump stops now which are designed for towing. They add progressive spring rate (similar to airbags), but you install and forget. Not sure how the affect offroad performance though

 

[Gr8Daneger]

Thanks for the info! I have an appointment to install airbags next month but wasn’t 100% committed.

I called Timbren and spoke with them and these seem like my best bet for my loads. They replace the bump stop outside the coil and can be removed with a wrench if articulation is needed.

Total height: Bracket 1 1/3”, Rubber stop 5 1/8”

TORLC2 - Suspension Enhancement System | Timbren Industries Inc. Suspension Products - https://timbren.com/i-30497944-timbren-ses-suspension-enhancement-system-sku-torlc2-rear-kit.html#!year%3D2021%7C%7Cmake%3DTOYOTA%7C%7Cmodel%3DLAND CRUISER 200%7C%7Csubmodel%3D4WD

 

[kcjaz]

Thanks for the info! I have an appointment to install airbags next month but wasn’t 100% committed.

I called Timbren and spoke with them and these seem like my best bet for my loads. They replace the bump stop outside the coil and can be removed with a wrench if articulation is needed.

Total height: Bracket 1 1/3”, Rubber stop 5 1/8”

TORLC2 - Suspension Enhancement System | Timbren Industries Inc. Suspension Products - https://timbren.com/i-30497944-timbren-ses-suspension-enhancement-system-sku-torlc2-rear-kit.html#!year%3D2021%7C%7Cmake%3DTOYOTA%7C%7Cmodel%3DLAND CRUISER 200%7C%7Csubmodel%3D4WD

Timbren does make two versions of bump stops. The SES version is what you want for towing and occasional heavey load use. The essentially add a progressive spring rate on top of what your coils have, but they are not meant for off road use. Their off-raod version is meant for that.

 

[FerrisBueller]

I get the idea that we don't want a big gap between the bottom of the jounce stop and the top of the airbag but IMO, this can't be that precise or super critical simply because they only make 2 sizes that are only 1" different and lift heights are all over the map. most are more than 1", and springs settle over time. The instructions just say to cut at the upper most "joint" on the jounce stop. In may case, I guess I'll leave leave two "joints". I suppose I could install the bags without the jounce stops and set the truck on the ground and measure how much jounce stop I need, but this seems like overkill and not necessary. The only thing that makes me even think about it is that my lift is more like 3" with unloaded cargo.

There's definitely some slop that's allowed with the gap. The main thing to keep in mind is that if you cut the jounce too short, then when you inflate the airbags, they won't have the amount of lifting ability that you want. If you leave the jounces too tall, then that's when your articulation starts getting limited and you might feel a bit bouncy when completely unloaded in the back. I would guess that leaving two "joints" on the jounce is probably exactly what will work for you.

When I say that the 4164 was barely tall enough for my 2-inch lift, that was leaving only 1 jounce "joint" remaining. Soon after that, I had my LC fully loaded for a camping trip (5 people inside, back fully loaded, cargo box on top, and full heavy hitch basket on the back), and pumping the 4164s all the way to 30 psi only barely got the LC mostly level. It was still way better than before I had the airbags where the back would sag by around 2 inches or so.

 

[Gr8Daneger]

Timbren does make two versions of bump stops. The SES version is what you want for towing and occasional heavey load use. The essentially add a progressive spring rate on top of what your coils have, but they are not meant for off road use. Their off-raod version is meant for that.

They both actually look like they use the same bracket, it looks like one could swap them out if going off roading or carrying a load.

 

[Gr8Daneger]

It looks like Timbren offers spacer kits for lifted vehicles as well for their SES systems.

Timbren SES Spacer Kits

Shop By Vehicle NEW SPACER KITS FOR LIFTED VEHICLES Timbren SES kit not working on your lifted vehicle? No worries! Timbren’s popular spacer kits enable your Timbren SES kit to work properly on the rear of your lifted truck. Feel confident as you h

timbren.com

 

[nmfoto]

I pull a trailer all the time. These things are essential for me. I spend weeks with my work in the middle of nowhere, off road. The sleeves from Airbagman out of Australia are essential as well. The airbags always stay at the bottom against the rear end. I have pulled apart the top of the airbag where the airline attaches to it on numerous occasions. I finally flipped the airbags over, put a puck at the bottom and hollowed it out so there was room for the airline attachment. Now there are no more issues. It flexes fine with the airbags, at 5 p.s.i.. There is no ride difference over non airbags. When I'm not pulling a trailer, I air it up to 35 - 40 p.s.i. when pulling a trailer. Makes all the difference in the world.