Another Toyota wiring debacle from main battery

[Expolander]

Does anyone know what's the current work around to this wiring debacle that Toyota has come up with here? I noticed that one of my wires was toasted, not sure why unless a short or faulty wiring somewhere.

I am looking into some heavy duty wiring replacements for dual batteries in the process as well...

1995 Toyota FZJ80

 

[Expolander]

toasted wire

Here is a shot of the toasted wire that I'm working on replacing.

 

[george_tlc]

Are you thinking those red wires are Toyota wiring?

Whatever mess of wiring/crimping that is, the Red wires and associated garbage of crimps & heatshrink is NOT Toyota OEM...

cheers,
george.

 

[kidglove13]

X2
None of those red wires are toyota OEM stuff
Someone definitely had that all apart at some point

It does not even look like it is the right gauge wire either
Looks awful thin gauge to me.
If the wire cooks like that it is not a big enough gauge wire
You have your work cut out for you

All the wire from the yellow crimps out is not OEM

 

[Expolander]

new pic

Thanks for the quick responses.

I mainly want to know what this is for? what is the part? has anyone done away with the junction box?

The RED wiring is aftermarket I know. I did it. Yes, perhaps one of the wires got toasted because it may have been to small, but I've been lucky I guess in running it that way for more than 4 years. Somewhere along the line it fried.

The OEM wire that comes from the grey plug is way to short and frayed I noticed when I pulled the electrical tape off, so I need to get a new plug, but if there is a way to bypass this OEM junction box (fusible link box?? still looking through my Toyota Electrical Wiring Diagram book), whatever it's purpose is, then I'm open for suggestions or a better way to configuring this mess. Has anyone ran this to a junction fuse box or in some other way?
i.e. http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Items/...ATO/ATC 6 Circuit Fuse Block with Clear Cover

Like I stated before, This is just something I happen to notice today and I'm planning on rewiring the whole setup with this method:

Budget dual battery setup.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/442538-budget-dual-battery-system.html

 

[sleeoffroad]

Someone hacked your wiring. Those are supposed to be fusable links from the battery that plug in and also bolt to the junction block. Buy the proper links from Toyota and replace what you have there. The junction block should still be there

 

[george_tlc]

I hope you realize that the RED wires you installed are where the FUSIBLE link wires are meant to be.

My NOT SO HUMBLE opinion is to remove the crap you wired, buy some NEW fusible links from Mr Toyota and use them.

The junction box can be fed INTO the battery housing hole and sit next to the battery and then you'll have enough lead length to connect to the battery.

If I'm understanding what you did, you basically cut the OEM fusible links, crimped on RED wires and to a large lug to connect to the battery. Not a good plan...

I'll add a few pics of what it's all MEANT to look like in a few minutes and how the junction box and fusible links can fit in the battery side of the housing.

cheers,
george.

 

[george_tlc]

cheers,
george.

 

[Expolander]

Thanks guys.

Reaching way back in my memory bank here I think this is what I recall doing..

1) Installed new Yellow top optima batteries. In doing this my pos/neg were flipped around so the OEM fusible link wires that use to reach the pos terminal which was on the right side of the battery were now not so close as the new battery POS+ terminal was now closest to the LH fender and would not reach there, or even with the battery turned around to match the way it was originally install the wires would not reach through the rubber grommet hole to the battery post either.

2) Because the POS+ fusible link wires would not reach to my new POS+ post on the Optima yellow top battery and noticing that the output side of the fusible link wires were not only very short, about 1-2" not to mention worn out and frayed, I cut and extended the wires. This has worked fine, up until some time when one of the RED wires, probably being to small, fried. It looks like just the wire coming off of the blue fusible link wire with one of the yellow crappy crimp job I did with the intentions of replacing later when I redid my dual batter setup.

So with that said...could a work around for now be?

1) Re-crimp a new (bigger) wire to the fusible link in place of the fried wire.
2) Since the grey fusible link plug, Female side with white wire is shot, can a in line fuse or something like that be substituted for the time being?
3) Isn't the black box that the fusible link wires connected to some type of fuse box? Can that be replaced with other inline fuses as well and make the wiring bigger?

I'm probably going to hear that the best options is to:
1) Order new fusible links from CDAN (to do), but in the meantime, I think I will still run into the issue of the wire length to battery being to short to reach the post..

Appreciate the input.

 

[Expolander]

I hope you realize that the RED wires you installed are where the FUSIBLE link wires are meant to be.

My NOT SO HUMBLE opinion is to remove the **** you wired, buy some NEW fusible links from Mr Toyota and use them.

The junction box can be fed INTO the battery housing hole and sit next to the battery and then you'll have enough lead length to connect to the battery.

If I'm understanding what you did, you basically cut the OEM fusible links, crimped on RED wires and to a large lug to connect to the battery. Not a good plan...

I'll add a few pics of what it's all MEANT to look like in a few minutes and how the junction box and fusible links can fit in the battery side of the housing.

cheers,
george.

Pretty much on par with what you said George. I agree that running both fusible link wires into the same large lug to connect to the battery may have been another culprit to one of the wires being fried. Thank goodness that was all that happened and I caught it when I did.

So my thinking was that running the fusible link wires together and lengthening them would not be much different than each individual fusible link wire being connected to the POS+ battery terminal.

I suppose root cause here is to small of wire, and running both fusible link wires together to one battery plug. Let me know what you think of my below posting to get things working again?
thanks.

 

[george_tlc]

Yes, the 1) option regarding feeding CDAN's dogs is the CORRECT thing to do.

The junction box is just that, a JUNCTION box. It is not a fuse box and is just intended to provide a way for the fusible links to be connected to the harness.

The fusible links were placed there for a good reason, to handle high current loads and transient loads, yet still fuse in case of a major electrical short. Better the links burn than your wiring harness.

Get the correct post batteries rather than doing hokey hack jobs to the wiring.

cheers,
george.

 

[Expolander]

another pic

Yes, the 1) option regarding feeding CDAN's dogs is the CORRECT thing to do.

The junction box is just that, a JUNCTION box. It is not a fuse box and is just intended to provide a way for the fusible links to be connected to the harness.

The fusible links were placed there for a good reason, to handle high current loads and transient loads, yet still fuse in case of a major electrical short. Better the links burn than your wiring harness.

Get the correct post batteries rather than doing hokey hack jobs to the wiring.

cheers,
george.

While it is always nice to feed other peoples dogs. I have a great dane and he eats A LOT, so I'd rather spend the money feeding him if I can.

As for doing a what you call a "hokey hack job" I don't see it that way. I look for better, ways of doing things, not just hack something together. Now, I know I probably didn't give as much thought to this job or time as I should have, but my thinking at the time I had done it seems to have gotten me by until now.

I've learned from someone wiser than me that there is stuff actually called fusible link wire. See my picture. So, perhaps I should have used fusible link wire to do this...perhaps perhaps, and perhaps there could have been many other ways to do this job...better.

I went and pulled off a fusible link from another cruiser I have...(yes I have another s**** 80 just sitting around) and what I found was in the attached picture. The same worn out fusible wires that are crusty and rotted. See where all 3 of the fusible wires are crimped together in this one debacle I speak about and they give you about 2" of fusible link wire to play with...that's my main complaint.

While that 2" of wire (being fusible wire I presume) serves some greater purpose than I currently understand because I don't have an electrical engineering degree to understand the reason behind the lack of wire they used here, I presume that I can replace this fusible wire with what I have and lengthen it to some degree.

I have full coverage so if this sucka burns down...then great...cuz at this rate I'm about sick of working on it!

 

[george_tlc]

I do have a Electronics Degree so tend to err on the safe side when it comes to all things electrical.

The reason for the short fusible links is that the wire is resistive so that it will burn/fuse if the load exceeds a certain current level that Mr Toyota deemed a safe limit for the downstream wiring.

Anyhow, feel free to hack away as you see fit and maybe you'll get to exercise your comprehensive coverage unless the insurance company checks your wiring and questions its origin

cheers,
george.

 

[kwaapia]

Coming from an electronics background, I would say you are risking a fire if you don't have the fusible links. They are there to protect you and whatever loads are down the line from the battery when you have a short to ground.

I had to replace mine 3 months ago when my alternator shorted the B+ to the case and my car almost caught fire but for the links burning and cutting the power.

Plus it is good design practice to always protect stuff. You will do better to observe the same tenet.

 

[Dilys95]

Here is a shot of the toasted wire that I'm working on replacing.

 

[Expolander]

I do have a Electronics Degree so tend to err on the safe side when it comes to all things electrical.

The reason for the short fusible links is that the wire is resistive so that it will burn/fuse if the load exceeds a certain current level that Mr Toyota deemed a safe limit for the downstream wiring.

Anyhow, feel free to hack away as you see fit and maybe you'll get to exercise your comprehensive coverage unless the insurance company checks your wiring and questions its origin

cheers,
george.

I am calling Cdan on Monday.

I certainly wouldn't go without the fusible link wire. Now that I know what it is and for. I'm just questioning if I can replace the worn out wire and how much longer can I go and can I attach a bigger gauge wire to the fusible link wire to lengthen it for reach as I did before. It seemed to work for one of the RED wires for a while.

 

[shaggy_mutt]

In case you're wondering whether a working fusible link is really that important...

We found out in the 40 back in the day, because a previous owner had substituted thick wire for a failed fusible link, and I shorted the ammeter across the dash while working on it. The entire length of the wiring harness between the + lead and the ammeter melted. (Ultimately, the wire substituted for the fusible link also melted, preventing the truck from actually catching fire.) It took me 2 parts harnesses and MANY hours of quality time with my nose in the Toyota wiring diagram to rebuild the harness.

George is right - this is one area where "back to stock" is the correct answer unless you really, really know what you are doing.

 

[Expolander]

feedback

In case you're wondering whether a working fusible link is really that important...

We found out in the 40 back in the day, because a previous owner had substituted thick wire for a failed fusible link, and I shorted the ammeter across the dash while working on it. The entire length of the wiring harness between the + lead and the ammeter melted. (Ultimately, the wire substituted for the fusible link also melted, preventing the truck from actually catching fire.) It took me 2 parts harnesses and MANY hours of quality time with my nose in the Toyota wiring diagram to rebuild the harness.

George is right - this is one area where "back to stock" is the correct answer unless you really, really know what you are doing.

Thanks for all the feedback. Just so everyone knows. It was never my intention to replace the fusible wire. I kept the fusible wire as is and added/lengthened the fusible wire by adding the red wires to them, but it's apparent that one of the wires could not handle the additional length and/or load of wire and gauge of wire and melted/fried.

What are your thoughts?
Rather than add additional wire or length to the fusible link, if I keep the fusible link stock, what do you think about lengthening the wire before the fusible link with the same gauge wire on the backside? The main issue here is the length of wire that I have to work with to attach to the POS+ post on my battery.

FYI...
The Haynes repair manual has a pretty good write up on fusible links and replacing/fixing them.

 

[george_tlc]

My question to you... IF you move the entire junction box (there IS enough slack in the harness) INTO the battery compartment area, do you have enough length to reach your battery??

Check my picture above, where I show my vehicle, the junction box is inside the battery compartment and ALL the wires to/from the fusible links, junction box and wiring from the junction box to the harness is 100% stock.

I also tossed out the stock battery clamps and used military style clamps. I also have a dual battery system that I installed in my 80 many many years ago (pre-ih8mud forum).

cheers,
george.

 

[Expolander]

the dead horse



This is my question exactly from another post on the same issue.
"You could also wire in a fuse, but you would need to know what the fusible link is set to."
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...sible-link-off-positive-barrery-terminal.html

90982-08264
List: $12.69
cdan's price: $9.52
08-04-09

I don't like the fusible link wires. They look messy, obviously wear out, and don't give much room to play because the way they are attach to the wiring harness is short. They should have wired this into a junction box or something where one could just pull a fuse. Although after reading below...
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"the entire purpose for having fusible links vs. just using a fuse is that the fusible link won't burn up when there is a short duration high-amp draw. A fuse would just blow. When there is a consistent high-amp draw then the fusible link gets fried."

"According to FSM & a AWG to Square mm Wire Gauge Conversion Chart-
OEM Main, AM1, & AM2 Fusible Links are 14, 16, & 22 wire gauges respectively"
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Glad mine didn't look like this:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/279630-electrical-issue-smoked-wire.html

I also read that if you do replace a fusible link the wire has to be two sizes larger than the fusible link wire. This is probably why one of my fusible links toasted out because the wire I had used to lenghten the blue fusible link was to small in diameter.

Additional info compiled on the subject for any future reference:
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>Fusible links - The advantage is they are materially cost effective. They offer resistance to circuits, which may benefit some circuits with delicate components, such as modules. Fusible links are often used because they can handle power spikes in situations where a fuse or circuit breaker would likely blow. The disadvantage, is that they may need "tedious" work to replace...
------------------

I have a big fuse for my stereo amp (in my 60) and an auto-reset circuit breaker for my trailer main power supply (hitch) wiring (in my Tundra and soon in my 80). And I keep the OEM fusible links in place in every vehicle.

Wiring in a CB instead of fusible link would not be hard. E.g., search on Blue Sea DC circuit breakers. Determining the right size(s) would take a little time, and I would suggest a slow burn type of CB. I considered just this when planning a trunk battery relocation on my AMX (I have not accomplished this as yet). I suggest you simply carry a spare fusible link for your 80, as others have suggested. Each wire in the fusible link is calculated to be the correct size to protect those associated circuits. Simple and cheap.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/542526-wtf-smoke-under-hood-cut-off-traffic-2.html
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Nevertheless, my objective tomorrow will to try and get it all back to stock and will have to try and stretch the wire from somewhere down below in order to reach the battery.

I'll also be ordering a couple sets of the now notorious "Fusible Links" from CDAN.