Another starter thread

[Cmab]

I had my starter replaced by the dealer 27 months and 22,000 miles ago. The first failure was due to a pitiful submerging This failure in such a short time with no unusual circumstances has me a bit uneasy. All the symptoms of a starter failure including a scalding hot positive battery terminal. The first Time it wouldn’t start, I disconnected leads, charged the battery overnight and it started and ran fine all the next day. When I dropped it off at the dealer for another issue they called within an hour and said it wouldn’t start and that the mechanic burned the s*** out of his hand on the positive post. They checked the battery and reported all good and said it was the starter. ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT ELSE COULD BE CAUSING THIS PREMATURE FAILURE?? I certainly don’t want another starter put in and have it burned up because of another issue. The dealer warranty on this starter replacement is only 1 year or 6,000 miles. The only relief here is Mexico dealer cost to replace is $300. Unbelievable I know.

 

[PDoyle]

I had my starter replaced by the dealer 27 months and 22,000 miles ago. The first failure was due to a pitiful submerging This failure in such a short time with no unusual circumstances has me a bit uneasy. All the symptoms of a starter failure including a scalding hot positive battery terminal. The first Time it wouldn’t start, I disconnected leads, charged the battery overnight and it started and ran fine all the next day. When I dropped it off at the dealer for another issue they called within an hour and said it wouldn’t start and that the mechanic burned the s*** out of his hand on the positive post. They checked the battery and reported all good and said it was the starter. ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT ELSE COULD BE CAUSING THIS PREMATURE FAILURE?? I certainly don’t want another starter put in and have it burned up because of another issue. The dealer warranty on this starter replacement is only 1 year or 6,000 miles. The only relief here is Mexico dealer cost to replace is $300. Unbelievable I know.

What did you find out?

 

[binhsterbinh]

I just swapped out the starter on my 2013 LX 570 with 131k miles as a maintenance item. The starter unit I removed had part number 28100-38080. It is the newer smaller housing design and Lexus parts sites state that this part number was used for Production Date: 07/2011-09/2015. The unit looked identical in design to the replacement starter I installed 28100-0S050. I was almost thinking someone had swapped the old one out already until I cross referenced the part numbers online.
Most the posts here are of people replacing the older units which appear to have been used in Production models between 07/2008-06/2011 with Part Number 28100-38041 (larger housing)
Have any of you on this forum have had the smaller housing part number 28100-38080 starter actually fail on them?

In any matter, my starter is replaced now after 8 hours of patience and awkward arm/body contortions reaching around the exhaust manifold. I feared that the removal of the manifold was going to be a can of worms with possibility of broken studs and other roadblocks.

Parts I removed:
-Disconnect Ground Cable from Battery
-2 Plastic shroud covers in the passenger wheel well
-Catalytic converter mid-pipe - unplugged the 2 O2 sensors first
-Oil Dipstick Tube has to come out to make removal of the heat shrouds possible
-Exhaust manifold heat shield shroud
-Starter heat shield shroud
-Starter: Lower bolt can be removed with a 14mm socket wrench. Upper bolt I used a long box wrench with cheater pipe for leverage
-Transmission cooler lines underneath - I didn't do this but seen others do for better access to the top bolt of the Starter better. I did remove the bracket bolt to the cooler lines so that I could move wiggle lines around as needed.

Notes on the Starter Heat Shroud removal/install:
The heat shroud around the starter like others mentioned is awful using this method leaving the exhaust manifold in. Its totally doable but you need to be patient. The 3rd upper 10mm bolt on this shroud needs to be done with a the open end of a 10mm wrench to avoid risk of getting your tool stuck. I started with a reversible 10mm ratchet wrench but backside of the bolt and wrench bound up against the exhaust manifold and got stuck. Thankfully I was able to use a screwdriver to flip the direction and tighten bolt back in and restart the process using the open ended 10mm wrench. I would have been hosed if my wrench wasn't reversible. Once 3 fasteners were out, the shield was still difficult to remove even with the smaller starter housing. I basically had to deform it to a flattened shape in order for it to finally slide out. Putting it back in wasn't too bad and I just formed the shroud back as best I could so that he bolt holes lined back up. Then used a long pair of needle nose pliers to insert the tough to reach 3rd bolt.

 

[TheGrrrrr]

Fwiw, I highly recommend folks learn to jump the starter in the event it fails in the same mode most do.

Since I'm heading into the maze district next week, and I'm at 120k, it would be great to know exactly what this process entails. I remember you posting about when you had to do it a few years ago, but I don't remember a procedure.

**Edit: Google is my friend, now I understand, though I do not have an appreciation for just how badly I could harm my vehicle in attempting to do this. I could see myself doing some unintentional welding for sure.

 

[TexAZ]

I keep a looong harbor freight screwdriver wrapped in multiple layers of electrical tape in my tool drawer, just in case. I got lucky that I was at my parents house when my starter failed. Don't want to risk it out on a trail

 

[TeCKis300]

I just swapped out the starter on my 2013 LX 570 with 131k miles as a maintenance item. The starter unit I removed had part number 28100-38080. It is the newer smaller housing design and Lexus parts sites state that this part number was used for Production Date: 07/2011-09/2015. The unit looked identical in design to the replacement starter I installed 28100-0S050. I was almost thinking someone had swapped the old one out already until I cross referenced the part numbers online.
Most the posts here are of people replacing the older units which appear to have been used in Production models between 07/2008-06/2011 with Part Number 28100-38041 (larger housing)
Have any of you on this forum have had the smaller housing part number 28100-38080 starter actually fail on them?

In any matter, my starter is replaced now after 8 hours of patience and awkward arm/body contortions reaching around the exhaust manifold. I feared that the removal of the manifold was going to be a can of worms with possibility of broken studs and other roadblocks.

Parts I removed:
-Disconnect Ground Cable from Battery
-2 Plastic shroud covers in the passenger wheel well
-Catalytic converter mid-pipe - unplugged the 2 O2 sensors first
-Oil Dipstick Tube has to come out to make removal of the heat shrouds possible
-Exhaust manifold heat shield shroud
-Starter heat shield shroud
-Starter: Lower bolt can be removed with a 14mm socket wrench. Upper bolt I used a long box wrench with cheater pipe for leverage
-Transmission cooler lines underneath - I didn't do this but seen others do for better access to the top bolt of the Starter better. I did remove the bracket bolt to the cooler lines so that I could move wiggle lines around as needed.

Notes on the Starter Heat Shroud removal/install:
The heat shroud around the starter like others mentioned is awful using this method leaving the exhaust manifold in. Its totally doable but you need to be patient. The 3rd upper 10mm bolt on this shroud needs to be done with a the open end of a 10mm wrench to avoid risk of getting your tool stuck. I started with a reversible 10mm ratchet wrench but backside of the bolt and wrench bound up against the exhaust manifold and got stuck. Thankfully I was able to use a screwdriver to flip the direction and tighten bolt back in and restart the process using the open ended 10mm wrench. I would have been hosed if my wrench wasn't reversible. Once 3 fasteners were out, the shield was still difficult to remove even with the smaller starter housing. I basically had to deform it to a flattened shape in order for it to finally slide out. Putting it back in wasn't too bad and I just formed the shroud back as best I could so that he bolt holes lined back up. Then used a long pair of needle nose pliers to insert the tough to reach 3rd bolt.

View attachment 3346479View attachment 3346480View attachment 3346481

Nicely done. Good info on the changeover date.

There's some evidence that it's not the starter motor so much as it's the piggybacked HD relay mounted to it. Those look to be the same, and would potentially have the same likelihood of failure. If the motor itself is of a design that pulls less current, that could mitigate some of the durability issues with the relay.

Slightly different topic, but in a vehicle as complicated with many motors and inductive loads, it's probably more important to keep the starter battery in tip top shape. Voltage droop is hard on electronics that support these loads.

 

[ekolpack]

I started getting click no starts several months ago and it's slowly gotten worse. Narrowed it down to likely starter......BUT I'm getting P0335 (crankshaft sensor) codes regularly too. When it starts, it runs just fine, for hours, never had a single hiccup during actual driving for the months this has been going on. So that would indicate the crankshaft sensor is fine, and maybe the starter issue is creating the P0335 code. Can anyone speak to this? Anyone else get this code along with their starter issues? Thanks!

 

[grinchy]

I started getting click no starts several months ago and it's slowly gotten worse. Narrowed it down to likely starter......BUT I'm getting P0335 (crankshaft sensor) codes regularly too. When it starts, it runs just fine, for hours, never had a single hiccup during actual driving for the months this has been going on. So that would indicate the crankshaft sensor is fine, and maybe the starter issue is creating the P0335 code. Can anyone speak to this? Anyone else get this code along with their starter issues? Thanks!

I didn’t get that code.

 

[ekolpack]

Also, seems there are more several part #'s for the starter itself. There's the OG big one, then the newer smaller one referenced here (#280-0417) but when I look that up, Denso website says it's been discontinued and replaced with #280-1019, which I ASSume is the newest bestest one? Also someone mentioned the 280-0417 one barely last long enough to get outside Toyota's warranty....so maybe that's why that one was discontinued??

Also someone mentioned the LX570 version is exactly the same part, but cheaper. So which one should I get for best reliability? I've got an 08 TLC. Thanks fellas!

*edit: Shopping for 280-1019's (replacement for the 280-0417) they're all remans, can't find a new one! Longo Toyota shows this model # for an '08 TLC (281000s050) the plot thickens. What's the "right" one????

 

[ekolpack]

And finally, one more question, what's the consensus on the best way to do this job? Remove the cat and exhaust manifold and deal with all that BS + gaskets and nuts and risk of shearing off bolts and stuff....or skip that and deal with the frustration of trying to get that stupid heat shield bolt off? Honestly I don't think I'd bother putting the bolt back on, I highly doubt a single heat shield bolt is gunna make much difference for anything, but I guess I'll be able to tell more when I see how it seals to whatever mating surface.

But yeah, any consensus on the best technique? My truck has moderate rust so I'm a little worried about removing all those cat/exhaust parts in my driveway.

 

[grinchy]

And finally, one more question, what's the consensus on the best way to do this job? Remove the cat and exhaust manifold and deal with all that BS + gaskets and nuts and risk of shearing off bolts and stuff....or skip that and deal with the frustration of trying to get that stupid heat shield bolt off? Honestly I don't think I'd bother putting the bolt back on, I highly doubt a single heat shield bolt is gunna make much difference for anything, but I guess I'll be able to tell more when I see how it seals to whatever mating surface.

But yeah, any consensus on the best technique? My truck has moderate rust so I'm a little worried about removing all those cat/exhaust parts in my driveway.

Shop I used went thru the manifold and replaced the gasket. They said it was as expected.

 

[tbisaacs]

And finally, one more question, what's the consensus on the best way to do this job? Remove the cat and exhaust manifold and deal with all that BS + gaskets and nuts and risk of shearing off bolts and stuff....or skip that and deal with the frustration of trying to get that stupid heat shield bolt off? Honestly I don't think I'd bother putting the bolt back on, I highly doubt a single heat shield bolt is gunna make much difference for anything, but I guess I'll be able to tell more when I see how it seals to whatever mating surface.

But yeah, any consensus on the best technique? My truck has moderate rust so I'm a little worried about removing all those cat/exhaust parts in my driveway.

Good luck

Definitive list of starter removal methods

I’m about to tackle this on my 08 LC with 155k miles. Sharing everything I’ve gathered in one place. Symptoms The starter will warn you with intermittent no-starts. When she finally goes you’ll hear a loud click when you press start button, dash lights will dim, and you’ll hear a whirring with...

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