Another brake drum adjusting question (1 Viewer)

[Coolerman]

I'm 99% sure I put the cylinders back on the way they came off but I will double check that they were on correct to start with. I labeled each one and only did one side at a time.

My PO had them in the wrong position and complained of brake problems. Studying the FSM is how I discovered this issue. So I would double check them.

In my FSM the pic has both springs behind the shoes and that is how I removed them. I beleive there is only a few months between our cruisers coolerman, why would your pic show one in front and one behind the shoes?
btw, I read your write up many times before I did my brake rebuild.
Could not have attempted it without it.
Thanks
Ken

The pic I posted is from my 1971 FSM, don't know why there would be a difference?

I can't imagine that spring being on one side or another, would cause the kind of pulling you are experiencing.

Glad my site helped with the job!

 

[lostmarbles]

...The pic I posted is from my 1971 FSM, don't know why there would be a difference? ..I can't imagine that spring being on one side or another, would cause the kind of pulling you are experiencing. .........Glad my site helped with the job!

For what it's worth, my 1980 manual shows the same spring postions. (One inside and one outside.)

(Digital cameras are great because now I photograph things like that to help myself with reassembly.)

And also for what it's worth - I think it is important to have EVERYTHING correct in order for drums to work correctly - especially the front ones. So on that basis I am fussy about the spring positioning too.

But I can't say for sure where your springs should sit on your model (cos I'm not that knowledgable about "cruisers in general").

 

[Fallon 40]

I have a dinner commitment tonight but I will post soom pics tomorrow and check bore size and make sure the left and right sides are correct.
Thanks for all the help.
Ken

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

Great thread...will be using this as a reference when I do mine

Hope you get it figured out Ken!

 

[malcb]

I can't imagine that spring being on one side or another, would cause the kind of pulling you are experiencing.

When I got my '75 my brake pedal needed a couple of pumps so I figured adjust them, I was doing a quick job because it wasn't even going on the road and I knew I would be stripping the brakes down later but I did pull the drums to check the shoes for wear. Both fronts looked close but OK. Threw the drums on and adjusted them, still too much pumping, adjusted them until they were still dragging and too much pumping, pulled the drums again, noticed the springs were both outside, pulled the shoes off, inside was paper thin both sides - the springs had pulled unevenly and allowed the shoe to wear on the inside but when I adjusted it would square up and drag. New shoes, springs inside and outside and all OK.

Springs didn't cause pulling but they did cause uneven wear and excessive travel in the pedal.

 

[71FJ40]

From the FSM, front cylinder bores are supposed to be 1 1/8 for the FJ40, 43, 45 and 55V and 1 1/4 for the F40L-A, 55L-G

For the rear, the FSM says 1" for the fj40, 0.875" for the FJ40L-A, 1.125" for the FJ43, 45 and 55v and 0.937" for the FJ55LG

 

[lostmarbles]

From the FSM, front cylinder bores are supposed to be 1 1/8 for the FJ40, 43, 45 and 55V and 1 1/4 for the F40L-A, 55L-G

For the rear, the FSM says 1" for the fj40, 0.875" for the FJ40L-A, 1.125" for the FJ43, 45 and 55v and 0.937" for the FJ55LG

But these things change depending on which market the vehicle was designed for. (I've learnt this from reading other threads. eg - Amaurer's BJ42 import from New Zealand is different from a USA/Canada spec. equivalent vehicle)

 

[rsbcruiser]

Hey Ken, did you get the one about the shoe diameters matching the drum diameters? If your brakemare continues one possible solution, take the shoes off (maybe just the fronts) take em down to a friction shop and have them turned to the same diameter as the drums. One question, when you adjusted your brakes, did you make sure to adjust both adjusters in each brake equally?

 

[amaurer]

From the FSM, front cylinder bores are supposed to be 1 1/8 for the FJ40, 43, 45 and 55V and 1 1/4 for the F40L-A, 55L-G

For the rear, the FSM says 1" for the fj40, 0.875" for the FJ40L-A, 1.125" for the FJ43, 45 and 55v and 0.937" for the FJ55LG

hmm, good to know. as lostmarbles hinted, my '82 has front drums because its NZ spec and they're 1 1/8" (actually 28.5mm).

what is an F40L-A?

 

[Fallon 40]

Hey Ken, did you get the one about the shoe diameters matching the drum diameters? If your brakemare continues one possible solution, take the shoes off (maybe just the fronts) take em down to a friction shop and have them turned to the same diameter as the drums. One question, when you adjusted your brakes, did you make sure to adjust both adjusters in each brake equally?

I'm going to post some pics tonight but it looks to me like the shoes are contacting more in the center of the shoe than equally from end to end. I took my drums to NAPA to be turned, can they turn the shoes to match the drums? I'm not familiar with the term"friction shop"
before I put the drums on I had the adjusters all the way in and backed off each one 25 clicks. Put the drum on and backed off each adjuster as equal as I could until I got the wheel to lock up then backed off until there was a slight drag on the wheel.

 

[Fallon 40]

Did you just do the brake job?

It is likely a friction difference L to R.
Possibilities:
Shoes not arced properly to drum on one side.
Drum on one side has a bad surface.
Shoes on one side contaminated.
Shoes on one side installed wrong.

Adjustment isn't going to make it pull much because they won't develop pressure until the shoes on both sides make contact.

Pulled off the drums on the front and verified all wheel cylinders were 1 ¼ bore and placed on the correct side with no leaks. Checked the fit of the shoe to the drum as Pin­ Head suggested and found the right side has a gap on both shoes. The arc (diameter) is definitely different on the right side.
Both left side shoes seem to nest in the drum very good. There is an obvious difference from the left side to the right side. I can rock the right side shoes in the drum. Would this be enough to pull me to the left hard?
Here are some pics.
Thank s
Ken

 

[Fallon 40]

More pics of right side shoes .
Here you can see the shoe arc in the drum on the left side ,appears to be a good fit with no gap.
Ken

 

[Fallon 40]

And last, the left side shoes
Ken

 

[lostmarbles]

....Checked the fit of the shoe to the drum as Pin* Head suggested and found the right side has a gap on both shoes. The arc (diameter) is definitely different on the right side.
Both left side shoes seem to nest in the drum very good. There is an obvious difference from the left side to the right side. I can rock the right side shoes in the drum. Would this be enough to pull me to the left hard?......

My opinion is DEFINITELY YES. (But I await more expert back-up opinion.)

 

[Pin_Head]

I am a little confused about which pictures are left and right, but yes, some of the shoes are not arced properly.

If you had the drums turned and shoes arced, then maybe the drums are different diameter and you switched the shoes side to side after they were arced. If you didn't get the drums turned and arced then (shame on you) you got luckier on one side than the other. Contact only on the ends is a big no-no. Get the shoes properly arced and the problem will go away. The cheap way is to get on them with sand paper or a file or just wear them by applying the brakes hard about 100 times.

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

Where did you get your new shoes?

Have you guys found some brands better than others in avoiding this?

 

[lostmarbles]

Hullo again Ken

I just looked at your photos once more and noticed what appears to be other significant differences between your left and right (that I never noticed before). The lining thickness doesn't look the same and even the paint is different (black versus gold).

If they were relined by the same outfit, I would have thought they would have been repainted the same colour at that time?

I know the paint won't directly affect the brakes but it suggests the different sides didn't originate from the same "batch" (for want of a better word). I mean - based on that, the lining material may even be different!

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

Good eyes...but it sort of brings it back to, where did you get your shoes?

What shoes do the rest of you guys buy...and where?

The reason I ask is that after installing the new glass in my windshield, I am redoing my drum brakes as well. Actually, I'd like to switch from a single line master, to a dual, (no booster) but not to hijack this thread, I had already posted in the 25 section check here --> https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj25-owners-group/210259-1964-master-up-grade.html

For what it`s worth, this thread has already answered quite a few questions for me.

Lots of good info on those pictures Ken, and going by everything writen here, I think you might be almost out of the woods on this one.

Not the best way to go about it, but what if he drove around with one foot on the brakes...whould that help them seat better or faster ?

What if he split the pairs, and put a black and a gold shoe on each side, thus giving him the same amount of friction on each drum, could that help his pulling issues, again, until they seat themselves ?

 

[Fallon 40]

I am a little confused about which pictures are left and right, but yes, some of the shoes are not arced properly.

If you had the drums turned and shoes arced, then maybe the drums are different diameter and you switched the shoes side to side after they were arced. If you didn't get the drums turned and arced then (shame on you) you got luckier on one side than the other. Contact only on the ends is a big no-no. Get the shoes properly arced and the problem will go away. The cheap way is to get on them with sand paper or a file or just wear them by applying the brakes hard about 100 times.

I had the drums turned but did not get the shoes arched to match the drums. When they turned the drums they told me one had been hot because it was out of round and it took more to clean up than the others. I do not know what the I.D. of the bigger drum is.

I bought the shoes from Man-A-Fre.

What looks strange is the shoes that look like more surface is contacting the drum are the shoes that need to be arched to match the drum. The shoes that look like the ends are contacting are the ones on the left side and nest in the drum good.

I will call the shop who turned the drums to see if they can arc the shoes to match and I will keep them as matched sets.

Thanks to everone who tried to help me. Hopefully, some day I will be able to return the help to someone here.

I will report back after I get it back together.
Ken

 

[Fallon 40]

Hullo again Ken

I just looked at your photos once more and noticed what appears to be other significant differences between your left and right (that I never noticed before). The lining thickness doesn't look the same and even the paint is different (black versus gold).

If they were relined by the same outfit, I would have thought they would have been repainted the same colour at that time?

I know the paint won't directly affect the brakes but it suggests the different sides didn't originate from the same "batch" (for want of a better word). I mean - based on that, the lining material may even be different!

I can measure the thickness of the pads but does it really matter?

Once I adjust the wheel cylinders to lock up the wheel then back it off a few clicks the gap between the pad and the shoe should be the same?
Once they are arched to the drums I think they all will be different as well?

Thanks Tom for all your input. I need all the help I can get!