Another blown front diff - looking for some options before going down the rabbit hole (1 Viewer)

[suprarx7nut]

@suprarx7nut I chuckled to myself on that one... I've paid my dues with knuckle rebuilds on 80's and all sorts of other things but I'd still rate my monkey skills at 3.5 .

Hope to get some pictures of the diff opened early in the week to have some definitive answers.

After mulling over this a bit I'm mostly kicking myself for intentionally deciding NOT to buy a winch for the first time because "I don't wheel like that anymore".

To be clear, I don't mean my comment as any kind of knock on your skills. I think somebody can be an excellent mechanic and still get a diff rebuild wrong on their first try. It's a unique animal with success and failure separated by some pretty nuanced differences.

I’m not a professional mechanic but I am a professional mechanical engineer with nearly 20 years of experience and it took me two crush sleeves to set pinion depth and then probably 7-8 combos of side bearing spacers to get in spec. That was after reading every write up on Zuk’s site ten times over. It’s tedious, but not difficult.

Yup. I saw a comment from somebody that called it part science and part artform recently. I think that's a good way to put it.

Point being, @Blue Phoenix , if you do it yourself, plan on a lot of prep and maybe a second attempt. If you pay someone else, make sure the mechanic is experienced with diff rebuilds specifically. I've always had a locking diff install pinned as a ~$2-3k job in my mind (assuming it's installed before you kill a ring gear.

Your experience is a pretty good example of why I don't give anyone crap for installing "too much" recovery/wheeling gear. The recovery gear and armor/upgrades are all totally unnecessary until they aren't and you just never know when that's going to be if you're driving remote off road. Most of them pay for themselves with one single use so build her up!

 

[Blue Phoenix]

@suprarx7nut ha no offense taken. I know what my skills are and more importantly what they are NOT.

One big reason I was reluctant to put a winch up front is all the freaking salt here... guess it's a moot point now, although from what I've read the Warn Zeon and Comeup winches have pretty good weather protection. Steel vs Synthetic cable though in light of being up North? I understand Synthetic is supposed to shed but I can only imagine salt will still build up

 

[ga12r1]

Just so you know you can get a brand new ready to bolt in GENUINE TOYOTA front for $1234. One of my buddies @Sargy did this a few years ago. The install on that is super easy too.

https://partsouq.com/en/search/all?q=4111060801

Even comes with a new diff bushing

 

[Trapper50cal]

Just so you know you can get a brand new ready to bolt in GENUINE TOYOTA front for $1234. One of my buddies @Sargy did this a few years ago. The install on that is super easy too.

https://partsouq.com/en/search/all?q=4111060801

Even comes with a new diff bushing

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That's an amazing price...I wonder what shipping on that from UAE is gonna set someone back? I ask seriously, not sarcastically because that's an amazing deal. I also wonder if they have 4.30 gear ratio 4-pinion (2000-2002) rather than the 2-pinions in the 98-99.

 

[ga12r1]

That's an amazing price...I wonder what shipping on that from UAE is gonna set someone back? I ask seriously, not sarcastically because that's an amazing deal. I also wonder if they have 4.30 gear ratio 4-pinion (200-2002) rather than the 2-pinions in the 98-99.

Looks like shipping to me in middle of nowhere Georgia 3-7 day Fedex is $327. Shipping from these guys is usually amazingly quick. I would expect it within a week.

 

[suprarx7nut]

That's an amazing price...I wonder what shipping on that from UAE is gonna set someone back? I ask seriously, not sarcastically because that's an amazing deal. I also wonder if they have 4.30 gear ratio 4-pinion (200-2002) rather than the 2-pinions in the 98-99.

Looks like shipping to me in middle of nowhere Georgia 3-7 day Fedex is $327. Shipping from these guys is usually amazingly quick. I would expect it within a week.

I bought a massive order a while back from Partsouq. A few thousand $$ of parts for my LX and my old Supra. It included a full "muffler" assembly, control arms, and a bunch of smaller delicate stuff, too. It was perhaps one of the nicest packaged shipments I've ever received. Everything arrived *pristine* and the boxes were very carefully assembled, packed, taped, loads of protective bubble wrap and paper, etc... It's weird that I'm going on about packaging, but it was that good. And on some really large, weird shaped items where you would expect ugly and haphazard stuff.

All of that and the shipping charge was minimal.

I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes at Partsouq, but the customer experience, even half way around the globe, is very good.

 

[97 AZ LC]

No.

Yes. The 2 pinion, going back to the 80 series, is adequately engineered for its applications. The 4 pinion is inadequately engineered for its applications, specifically A-trac.

 

[SteveH]

@Blue Phoenix - If anyone has ever been out on High Rock road you know it's not that bad

I drove this very road in 1992 in my '78 FJ40, on a long, long trip from Colorado to Michigan. We had to throw pallets in the streams to lessen the fording depth. It was June, so ice wasn't an issue. I did not blow up my front diff, however. Thanks for bringing back the memories.

I graduated from MTU in '88 and we used to haunt the Copper Country, mostly four-wheeling in a '74 Olds Omega (Chevy Nova) or whatever other car could be blasted through mud-holes with speed, rather than traction.

 

[ga12r1]

Yes. The 2 pinion, going back to the 80 series, is adequately engineered for its applications. The 4 pinion is inadequately engineered for its applications, specifically A-trac.

IMO neither the 2 nor the 4 pinion is adequate for the 100. They both suck.
If you wheel the 100 the front will eventually break. It’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when.
This is simply not an issue with the diff in the solid axle 80 or the diff in the ifs 200.
So yeah. Inadequate.

 

[Trapper50cal]

IMO neither the 2 nor the 4 pinion is adequate for the 100. They both suck.
If you wheel the 100 the front will eventually break. It’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when.
This is simply not an issue with the diff in the solid axle 80 or the diff in the ifs 200.
So yeah. Inadequate.

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Which is why the locker addition is the best option...the carrier replaces the spider gears.

 

[ga12r1]

Which is why the locker addition is the best option...the carrier replaces the spider gears.

Yes. It is the best option if you wheel often. No doubt.
You are not only taking the spiders out of the equation but you’re also stiffening up the whole shebang.
Most of the failures I’ve seen are actually not spider failures but failures resulting from carrier flex. The 100s are notorious for this and a locker fixes the carrier flex issue by replacing the carrier.
Case flex can still be an issue though so it’s not a fix. The diff was really just an all around bad design

 

[Blue Phoenix]

So what you're saying @ga12r1 is that I need to just bite the bullet and finally get a 200.

 

[Trapper50cal]

That's a "Pro-Expenditure" way to look at it

 

[MechE30]

Yes. It is the best option if you wheel often. No doubt.
You are not only taking the spiders out of the equation but you’re also stiffening up the whole shebang.
Most of the failures I’ve seen are actually not spider failures but failures resulting from carrier flex. The 100s are notorious for this and a locker fixes the carrier flex issue by replacing the carrier.
Case flex can still be an issue though so it’s not a fix. The diff was really just an all around bad design

My 2 pinion diff failure that you towed me off the trail at COTR2 was a spider gear failure. But yeah to your point it’s not adequate enough of a design in the stock carrier no matter the pinion count.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Update... truck is fixed. See pic below.

Considering my lack of familiarity with driveline shops around me as well as needing to be back on the road, the truck is now the recipient of a brand new front diff assembly.

I did keep the old diff and I am exploring options to equip the truck with F/R lockers now. I looked over @cruiseroutfit options which (unsurprisingly) look fantastic as far as how they lay out options.

Having said that, my current knowledge as illustrated before regarding lockers is likely now outdated.
- My 80 had F/R lockers which worked great for the most part. I did have to replace a rear actuator but otherwise it's +1 for E-locker options.
- Other than brand specific, is there any one brand or type I should steer away from?

I have read a few comments about not going air locker (i.e. ARB), but as my truck already has an ARB compatible compressor on-board I am at least tempted to go that route. And I almost cringe to ask, but without re-gearing, can a 3+garage mechanic (me) accomplish this reliably?

I no longer live 30 minutes away from Just Differentials and I am leery about just having some shop do it.

Sorry for the long post.