Am I Crazy? FZJ80 to HDJ81 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter thekitchensink
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Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
I slept on this last night, and remember what I used to say to customers in the UK when they were thinking about purchasing a diesel after being conned by the UK government.
I pointed out that petrol engines need minor repairs on a regular basis, diesels rarely go wrong but when they do (pump, turbo for example), they are expensive.
I also thought about my present client list, 90% or more have diesel engines, how many fuel pumps have I fitted..........perhaps 2, this because they filled with petrol by mistake, normally getting away with it for the first or second time? Turbo's around 10, all bar a couple on the Peugeot HDI engine, ironic that they are Garret turbo's the same brand as the 80, and yet turbo failure on the 80 is a very rare occurence, poor oiling design the reason.
So what keeps the coin coming in if the diesels are so good? Electronics! Crank angle sensors, O2 sensors, cats, particle filters, EGR valves, injection relays, faulty 'high performance' glow plugs, more OBD nonesense than you can throw a stick at. None of these are on the diesel 80, normal glow plugs to keep emissions down are fitted, but do not affect starting performance, these are direct injection engines, and one of the reasons they do sound like a truck.
Someone mentioned ambulance rear doors? HDJ81's more commonly come into Europe have the tailgate, unsure if that is a market thing?
In a nutshell, more reliable than a petrol engine with less to go wrong but, keep some ready cash if it does.
Regards
Dave
I pointed out that petrol engines need minor repairs on a regular basis, diesels rarely go wrong but when they do (pump, turbo for example), they are expensive.
I also thought about my present client list, 90% or more have diesel engines, how many fuel pumps have I fitted..........perhaps 2, this because they filled with petrol by mistake, normally getting away with it for the first or second time? Turbo's around 10, all bar a couple on the Peugeot HDI engine, ironic that they are Garret turbo's the same brand as the 80, and yet turbo failure on the 80 is a very rare occurence, poor oiling design the reason.
So what keeps the coin coming in if the diesels are so good? Electronics! Crank angle sensors, O2 sensors, cats, particle filters, EGR valves, injection relays, faulty 'high performance' glow plugs, more OBD nonesense than you can throw a stick at. None of these are on the diesel 80, normal glow plugs to keep emissions down are fitted, but do not affect starting performance, these are direct injection engines, and one of the reasons they do sound like a truck.
Someone mentioned ambulance rear doors? HDJ81's more commonly come into Europe have the tailgate, unsure if that is a market thing?
In a nutshell, more reliable than a petrol engine with less to go wrong but, keep some ready cash if it does.
Regards
Dave
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for the $ keep the FZJ and pickup one of these new Hondas (still cheaper than making the switch to a HDJ)
1982 Honda C70 Passport
Whats more important to you, $ or mpg? You pay a premium for HDJ over FZJ- if HDJ was cheaper More people would have them
1982 Honda C70 Passport
Whats more important to you, $ or mpg? You pay a premium for HDJ over FZJ- if HDJ was cheaper More people would have them
Can you explain this statement? What are you saying is different about the wheels compared to US models?
Sonofaskipper
SILVER Star
What’s wrong with importers on the west coast? Do you have proof that they’re unscrupulous, or are these just allegations? I know the guy that owns LC Direct boasts having the finest examples in the country, but how can you substantiate that? I know he baselines them, but beyond that, what’s better about his rides than other importers? He spends a lot of effort to disparage other importers. I’d like to know more about the experience that left the guy stranded at LAX.
These posts will always end up with numbers skewed towards what the responders actually own. If you bought a diesel, you think it's the cat's meow. If gas, that's the way to go. Everyone's just trying to justify where they spent their money. Buy what you like and enjoy it.
However, I would never use my cruiser as a full time daily driver. A cheap vehicle with easily accessible cheap parts would make much more sense. The cruiser is the toy, not the tool.
However, I would never use my cruiser as a full time daily driver. A cheap vehicle with easily accessible cheap parts would make much more sense. The cruiser is the toy, not the tool.
thekitchensink
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #28
Thanks guys for all the opinions! It's always great to see what others think on a topic.
As it stands right now, I think the only way I could get a HDJ81 is if I didn't take too much of a loss or none at all in buying and then selling my '93. I did find a clean '90 HDJ for about 11k in Oregon. 244k mi, BEB's already done, regularly serviced, and 16" wheels. However, I probably couldn't sell the '93 for more than 7k (which is a gain, considering how much I bought it for).
Parts and availability would be an issue with the 1HD-T... and that's another thing that makes me hesitate. Maybe it'd be better to get a 6BT swapped 80... maybe one day I'll have room to do it myself.
Thanks again! And keep the thoughts coming... I enjoy reading them. (also, if anyone is selling their HDJ for less than 12k let me know
)
As it stands right now, I think the only way I could get a HDJ81 is if I didn't take too much of a loss or none at all in buying and then selling my '93. I did find a clean '90 HDJ for about 11k in Oregon. 244k mi, BEB's already done, regularly serviced, and 16" wheels. However, I probably couldn't sell the '93 for more than 7k (which is a gain, considering how much I bought it for).
Parts and availability would be an issue with the 1HD-T... and that's another thing that makes me hesitate. Maybe it'd be better to get a 6BT swapped 80... maybe one day I'll have room to do it myself.
Thanks again! And keep the thoughts coming... I enjoy reading them. (also, if anyone is selling their HDJ for less than 12k let me know
)
Thanks guys for all the opinions! It's always great to see what others think on a topic.
As it stands right now, I think the only way I could get a HDJ81 is if I didn't take too much of a loss or none at all in buying and then selling my '93. I did find a clean '90 HDJ for about 11k in Oregon. 244k mi, BEB's already done, regularly serviced, and 16" wheels. However, I probably couldn't sell the '93 for more than 7k (which is a gain, considering how much I bought it for).
Parts and availability would be an issue with the 1HD-T... and that's another thing that makes me hesitate. Maybe it'd be better to get a 6BT swapped 80... maybe one day I'll have room to do it myself.
Thanks again! And keep the thoughts coming... I enjoy reading them. (also, if anyone is selling their HDJ for less than 12k let me know
HDJ81 odometers are in kms, FYI. If that '90 HDJ81 you're looking at really has 244k miles, that's 390k kms! Expect that a lot of things are worn out and will require replacement during the time you own it at that mileage.
@Manona was relaying their personal bad experience. I don't think anyone is making allegations.
That said, there are a lot of sellers (on either coast or in between) who are selling misrepresented vehicles. I always assume they are not aware, unless I personally know otherwise. This includes odometer rollbacks, bondo'd rust or documented accident history.
Some examples of that can be found here as an attempt to make sure anyone buying an out-of-market vehicle has the best information available:
Land Cruisers Direct
That's a very good question. The difference is knowledge, access and process.
Knowledge.
We know more about out-of-market LC's than any other regular importer in the country. You'll see imported LC's for sale by general importers who are just jumping on the latest craze or who sell a large variety of vehicles. LCD focuses only on Land Cruisers and the occasional Hilux. We know them inside and out. This knowledge is invaluable when it comes to picking out the best available vehicles for sale overseas.
Access.
We have more access than most when it comes to bidding at auctions in Japan and we have a network of searchers and inspectors in Europe and Australia. The guys physically inspecting the vehicles we look at have all watched our own 15 minute training video on what's important when evaluating a LC.
Process.
Our selection and evaluation process is thorough and unique. It includes spending extra for deep records searches to check for any odometer discrepancies (rollbacks or gaps) or accident history. If we can't confirm, we don't buy. Over the years, we've established a formula to target the top quality vehicles available. We aren't flipping cars. Our objective is long term relationships, community and repeat buyers.
But that's just how we choose the best vehicles. The other half of the equation (baselining, lifetime support, parts assistance, service) is just as important.
There are a lot of people who can handle the logistics of importing and delivering a vehicle. That's only part of the value we offer. The real value is in how we select and offer the best possible LC's we can find.
It's the reason that @woody, @beno, @cruiseroutfit and the Land Cruiser Heritage Museum all have trucks from LCD.
Disparage or inform the community?
The reason I make the "buyer be aware" posts is in response to feedback from the community in the classifieds section. The only people who've ever disliked this are sellers misrepresenting their vehicles.
I think you've received a lot of good, practical advice and information! Finish school and then buy multiple HDJ81's.
Don't let that be a deciding factor. As others have mentioned, parts availability is a non-issue when you know where to look. There are some things you can't get from a US Toyota dealer or parts store (NAPA, Oreillys, etc), and those are the things to plan ahead if they aren't available from a specialty retailer like Cruiser Outfitters or SOR.
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thekitchensink
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #31
Understood. I believe it's already been converted from kms to mi. Grated, it's still a lot, and things are definitely going to be worn out.
thekitchensink
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #32
I think you've received a lot of good, practical advice and information! Finish school and then buy multiple HDJ81's.
Haha! Sounds like a plan.
If you are really serious, shoot me a message. I just returned from Okinawa to Oklahoma and brought my 93 HDJ81 home with me. It has 161k km, so just a hair over 100k miles. I'm having the BEB's done in the next week. I'm considering selling it and turning it into a Harley of all things.
^ you kind of brushed on what you would recommend the OP...
I'll explain why in this case it's not ownership bias but rather what makes sense in this scenario:
Unknown new vehicle will require time (to learn about), money to baseline (it always takes some money to baseline)
He or she currently has a 93 that they know and have worked on before (so less time learning about), hopefully they'v done some baselining.
Income reduction, from a full time job to part time (maybe, school? how much money will he/she make, who knows?)
Priorities: this persons' priorities lies with education, not working on a new to them hdj81, awesome idea, wrong time.
in the end this is an affordability and mpg question. He/she will have less money to spend on gas, and less money to fix a vehicle, and also presumably less time. It's a recipe for potentially buying an awesome hdj81 that could give them a hard time while they're going to school.
edit: also, while the HDJ81 is more fuel efficient it's not like's a fuel sipper either, you're still moving around a lot of steel; and diesel is expensive. Yes, you will save money with a switch, but it's a long road to the break even of offloading, buying a more expensive vehicle fixing a few things and then using still a lot of fuel, but this time diesel.
I would do what I my cousin did while he was in school in Florida- he had a 4x4 (wrangler) and to get around the University would use a moped. It was warm anyway, and the chicks dug it, low on gas and maintenance. I would prefer to ride my bicycle though.
so to the OP, if you want help finding a bicycle let me know , I can advice you on that. And @SteveJackson can help you once you're done school.
What will you be taking in school?
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Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
$ or mpg, are they not the same? More people would have them if they were freely available, but yes they are more expensive, so now think 'why' are they more expensive, and it's not just supply and demand. In Europe a really nice petrol 80 can be found for peanuts, finding a similar decent diesel is way more expensive, people buy them for their uncanny ability to run thousands upon thousands of trouble free miles, ever wondered why pretty much every truck on the road is diesel?
Other points mentioned earlier, hard to find parts? 10 years ago maybe? The internet has more than catered for that, where did I go for a PWM controller for my engine cooling fan, the USA.
Finding someone to fix it the diesel pump? Pull the pump yourself and find a pump reconditioner, the pump is not exclusive to the 80, it is a typical rotary setup. Turbo's unbolt and bolt back on, injectors the same.
Keep in mind I work with diesels every day, I am definitely NOT a lover of diesels but, having seen the punishment my Discovery engine took, and now the LC, I can see the overall benefits of (old style) diesel over petrol, I would not look twice at a modern diesel.
Someone mentioned the 80 is a toy and not a tool and I must disagree, it is a trustworthy workhorse.
Regards
Dave
Well to get better mpg aka move to a HDJ he would have to pay a premium over an FZJ. It’s kind of a wash at that point. Get a cheap moped and keep the 80
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
I suppose with careful comparison the OP could work out how much he uses in fuel and halve it? This would give him some indication of potential savings?
But it's not all about the fuel, it's about overall savings long term IME.
Regards
Dave
But it's not all about the fuel, it's about overall savings long term IME.
Regards
Dave
TuffMudder
Still working on my FJ55!
I have a 1990 hdj81. I bought from a mud member who had put a lot of time into it, and it was turn key.
I daily drive mine and wheel it hard. The money I have put into has either been elective (steel bumper and sliders), or as a result of me abusing it (4 ft deep mud pits are hell on alternators).
I absolutely LOVE mine and recommend it over a gas 80. Mine handles very nicely, off road, interstate and commuting
While I recommend the swap, it sounds like ultimately, the decision comes down to if the swap is workable as you enter school. I suspect you could get one of Steve’s and it would be turn key. The question is, are you ready to pay the initial cost?
I daily drive mine and wheel it hard. The money I have put into has either been elective (steel bumper and sliders), or as a result of me abusing it (4 ft deep mud pits are hell on alternators).
I absolutely LOVE mine and recommend it over a gas 80. Mine handles very nicely, off road, interstate and commuting
While I recommend the swap, it sounds like ultimately, the decision comes down to if the swap is workable as you enter school. I suspect you could get one of Steve’s and it would be turn key. The question is, are you ready to pay the initial cost?
