mot said:You got ripped!!
It wouldn't be the first time.
Do you have a source for the 60mm gauge at a good price? If so, post the link!
(edited the correct gauge size 60mm, not 52mm)
-B-
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Aluminum Radiator?
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It wouldn't be the first time.
Do you have a source for the 60mm gauge at a good price? If so, post the link!
(edited the correct gauge size 60mm, not 52mm)
-B-
-B-,
I was yanking your chain!
I'll search during my lunch break.
Do you care if it's G'Reddy or Blitz or Defi or you just want 50mm? Also for what do you want gauges for? Not the coolant temp, right?
Anyway, better get back to looking busy before boss comes back!
Mot
I was yanking your chain!
I'll search during my lunch break.
Do you care if it's G'Reddy or Blitz or Defi or you just want 50mm? Also for what do you want gauges for? Not the coolant temp, right?
Anyway, better get back to looking busy before boss comes back!
Mot
Beowulf said:It wouldn't be the first time.
Do you have a source for the 50mm gauge at a good price? If so, post the link!
-B-
mot said:turbo,
I can't take all the credit! As it says in the good book, "Ask and ye shall receive", you received good information received from several individualsThis is what makes this forum so great!
So does that mean that it was officially offered on their website or did you have to give them the part number, etc... to see if that's something that they could get from Japan?
In any case, I'm really happy that it seems like you are well on your way to get your coolant temp gauge/sensor properly installed.
Please do keep us posted on your progress.
Cheers,
Mot
Yes Mot, the great people here, including you, are what make this forum so fun and so informative.
The part was not workable over the Japanese website and neither was it workable from the US website so I called customer service and they linked me up with a retailer in Denver. The part number you gave me was perfect and by the way the last two digits refer to the size of the adaptor (38 mm in our case) so if other people want an adaptor for other vehicles they can use the part number you provided earlier and then go with 40mm or whatever.
I do have on order the adaptor and the gauge. I also will probably order a matching Greddy EGT Gauge and install that. With the Air/Fuel, Boost, Coolant Temp, and Exhaust Temp, I should have the top things that I would want to refer to while working my rig.
This has all got me going on another idea which is to buy another adaptor and another sensor and install it AFTER the rad to see the before and after temp drop. The tech that I talked to thought that it might be possible to do this with the single gauge setup and a small special switch so that I could toggle between the two temp sensors and see how well the rad is handling the cooling load. This is just a thought at the moment but it seems sensible.
Anyway man, you are admirably humble about the help you have given so again, I thank you and for the rest of the fine folks here, I'll post back the results when I've got it worked out.
turbo,
I am happy whenever I can contribute to anyone on/in this great forum.
Beo,
Not that I came up with any good links for inexpensive meters, and probably you already have accessed these ones as well, but...:
http://www.blitz-na.com/P_electronic.htm
http://www.defi-shop.com/
Or this one is pretty cool:
http://www.blitz.co.jp/products/electonic/r-vit.htm
It can display all the data in red by plugging it into the OBD (II?), of vehicles manufactured on/after 1996 (if it meets the ISO4230), or vehicles before 1996 having the OBD which was developed by Nissan (or something like that).
On the list of the vehicles I failed to see the 80. But from the pic could those of you who have OBD diag. units that the connector might be the same? If so, this unit would be super cool.
Oh wait, I just found it on their English/N. American site, too:
http://www.blitz-na.com/Blitz_RMonitor_Rvit.htm
Anyway, they say that they'll be releasing the pre-'96 Toyota units, too.
If anyone could contact them and confirm that their unit would work with '96 and later that'll be cool.
Better get back to looking busy.
Mot
I am happy whenever I can contribute to anyone on/in this great forum.
Beo,
Not that I came up with any good links for inexpensive meters, and probably you already have accessed these ones as well, but...:
http://www.blitz-na.com/P_electronic.htm
http://www.defi-shop.com/
Or this one is pretty cool:
http://www.blitz.co.jp/products/electonic/r-vit.htm
It can display all the data in red by plugging it into the OBD (II?), of vehicles manufactured on/after 1996 (if it meets the ISO4230), or vehicles before 1996 having the OBD which was developed by Nissan (or something like that).
On the list of the vehicles I failed to see the 80. But from the pic could those of you who have OBD diag. units that the connector might be the same? If so, this unit would be super cool.
Oh wait, I just found it on their English/N. American site, too:
http://www.blitz-na.com/Blitz_RMonitor_Rvit.htm
Anyway, they say that they'll be releasing the pre-'96 Toyota units, too.
If anyone could contact them and confirm that their unit would work with '96 and later that'll be cool.
Better get back to looking busy.
Mot
medtro said:
I'm questioning where to mount the gauges actually. One possibility is below the stereo head unit in the approx 1 DIN space there - two gauges should fit there (AutoMeter makes a two gauge flat plate that would work I think). Another possibility are those things that hold gauges on dashes and consoles and stuff (Greddy makes some for twelve dollars) they are open and mechanical looking and I suppose I'd prefer to put them somewhere else less loudly visible and less tuner looking. Another possibility is actually two pods put on the passenger side pillar! Yea, kinda strange, but I have really good eyesight and I've notice the three times or so I was actually a passenger in my own rig I could easily see the gauges on the drivers side pillar so this might be the cleanest simplest way to do it. I'd love to learn what others think of these or other ideas. Thanks this is so cool!
Update and Success!!! Thanks To All Who Helped!!!
Hi folks, just wanted to follow up with the way this thing that I (and we) were working on. I got my Greddy 38mm coolant sensor adaptor, the Greddy 52mm coolant sensor gauge, and a Greddy gauge mount today. Everything is installed and everything is working wonderfully well together. Some info some might want to know:
1. The Greddy coolant sensor adaptor is approx 28 dollars. It is the object from a photo above that is inserted into the upper radiator hose and provides a "tap" for a coolant temp sensor. In my case this was the only way to get an accurate coolant temperature gauge since the extra factory location on my rig is taken up with the coolant return line coming from the turbo. Anyway this adaptor thing is billet aluminum, it is no more than three inches long, takes no more than one half inch of extra room ( in other words the part that the sensor threads through is only about one half inch the rest of that 2.5 inches is what is inserted at each end into the upper radiator hose), see photo above.
2. The 52mm Greddy temperature gauge was 122 dollars. A special apology to Beowulf for mistakenly stating that the gauge was 55 dollars; I was asking the tech at the store about autometer as well as several others and I guess I got the price wrong. The gauge is a very nice self contained, self grounding gauge with black face and green backlight.
3. The Greddy guage holder was 12 dollars and is adjustable. In my opinion it is not as nice as a pod but with my dual pod holder on the driver's pillar, things were getting too tight to work with. I thought about getting a right hand pillar pod but then after listening to several sources convinced myself out of that as it would be hard to really see the small temperature variations from the driver's seat. I knew I would not want the gauges on the dash as that draws so much attention and I knew I would not want the guages on the center console as my GPS, cell, wallet, whatever is typically there, so, I installed it on the top of the steering column so that the only thing it blocks is the line of sight to the 2nd and 1st gear selector indicators.
4. Install is about as easy as easy gets - let loose some coolant so that the coolant is just below the upper radiator neck, remove the upper radiator hose, cut it in the middle where it is straight, insert the Greddy adaptor and install the Greddy supplied lined hose clamps, thread in the sensor, reconnect the upper radiator hose and adaptor assembly, connect one sensor wire to battery, connect other sensor wire to headlight fuse, route the other sensor wires to the gauge, pick a place to mount the qauge holder, mount it, install gauge and top off cooling system. All together the install took 1.5 hours.
Some first observations: I changed the coolant almost exactly one year ago and as my threads on the subject then admitted, I simply drained the rad three times then filled each time with distilled water and then drained one last time adding two gallons of coolant and distilled water till topped off. I had no visible sludge but as several here have stated, without draining the block and thoroughly flushing the system, I would not necessarily know??? Anyway, the coolant is changed yearly on my vehicles but instead of changing it and then doing the adaptor and gauge and whatsnot, I decided to do a before and after observation. So, this guage and this adaptor were installed with one year old coolant on purpose. ( The fact that I only drained and filled last year was not agghhemm on purpose!). The other thing worth mentioning is that my coolant to water ratio is off as evidenced by the -48 degree testout using my ethylene glycol floating arrow tester thingy. So since I have too much coolant, that would result in slightly lower cooling capacity as campared to a 50/50 ratio or perhaps even a 40/60 which should protect me in my temperatures for sure. Anyhoooooo...
I will record temps now and later with several hopefully helpful data points. To start, I drove a fast and furious drive through Denver and down the highway until I got stuck in some serious traffic so after all that the highest temp that was ever generated was 90 degrees Celsius which is 194 farenheit. Surprisingly to me was that the 90 degrees was not while I was flooring it up some serious slopes out of Denver, but when I was stuck in traffic. The average temp was between 86 and 88 degrees (186 to 190) and this average applied whether the heater was on or off. Also surprisingly to me is how utterly useless the stock gauge must be; from the time the real gauge read 65 all the way up to 90 the frickin factory gauge did not move one bit, not one bit at all. This is super surprising considering the "flat spot" of the factory gauge, at least if i recall correctly, was supposed to be from like 195 to 225 farenheit ... seems like that flat spot is measured with a voltmeter so I'm sure its accurate from a voltage perspective but all I can say is from the eyeball, it looks like the flat spot is much much larger??? I'm sorta confused about that.
I intend to record at least three other temps: The first with pure distilled water in the entire cooling system AFTER I thoroughly flush per E's method ( heater cores separately, then heater cores with block, then rad separately ). The second with a 50/50 mix of Toyota Red and distilled water. The third with a 40/60 mixture of coolant/water and a bottle of RedLine Water Wetter. I think from now on I'm going to go with the 40/60 and the water wetter so since this is the final goal, I want to get there but also have a comparison with 50/50.
Lastly, and sorry to ramble so much, a sincere thanks and salute to Mot who turned me on to this Greddy equipment. This has been hugely helpful to me and I would think that it would help whoever wants an accurate coolant temp gauge but does not want to or is not able to thread and tap that aluminum neck that goes to the upper rad hose. Thanks Mot, and thanks to the rest of ya fine fawkers, I mean fine folks, who helped and/or actually read this whole thing!!!
Hi folks, just wanted to follow up with the way this thing that I (and we) were working on. I got my Greddy 38mm coolant sensor adaptor, the Greddy 52mm coolant sensor gauge, and a Greddy gauge mount today. Everything is installed and everything is working wonderfully well together. Some info some might want to know:
1. The Greddy coolant sensor adaptor is approx 28 dollars. It is the object from a photo above that is inserted into the upper radiator hose and provides a "tap" for a coolant temp sensor. In my case this was the only way to get an accurate coolant temperature gauge since the extra factory location on my rig is taken up with the coolant return line coming from the turbo. Anyway this adaptor thing is billet aluminum, it is no more than three inches long, takes no more than one half inch of extra room ( in other words the part that the sensor threads through is only about one half inch the rest of that 2.5 inches is what is inserted at each end into the upper radiator hose), see photo above.
2. The 52mm Greddy temperature gauge was 122 dollars. A special apology to Beowulf for mistakenly stating that the gauge was 55 dollars; I was asking the tech at the store about autometer as well as several others and I guess I got the price wrong. The gauge is a very nice self contained, self grounding gauge with black face and green backlight.
3. The Greddy guage holder was 12 dollars and is adjustable. In my opinion it is not as nice as a pod but with my dual pod holder on the driver's pillar, things were getting too tight to work with. I thought about getting a right hand pillar pod but then after listening to several sources convinced myself out of that as it would be hard to really see the small temperature variations from the driver's seat. I knew I would not want the gauges on the dash as that draws so much attention and I knew I would not want the guages on the center console as my GPS, cell, wallet, whatever is typically there, so, I installed it on the top of the steering column so that the only thing it blocks is the line of sight to the 2nd and 1st gear selector indicators.
4. Install is about as easy as easy gets - let loose some coolant so that the coolant is just below the upper radiator neck, remove the upper radiator hose, cut it in the middle where it is straight, insert the Greddy adaptor and install the Greddy supplied lined hose clamps, thread in the sensor, reconnect the upper radiator hose and adaptor assembly, connect one sensor wire to battery, connect other sensor wire to headlight fuse, route the other sensor wires to the gauge, pick a place to mount the qauge holder, mount it, install gauge and top off cooling system. All together the install took 1.5 hours.
Some first observations: I changed the coolant almost exactly one year ago and as my threads on the subject then admitted, I simply drained the rad three times then filled each time with distilled water and then drained one last time adding two gallons of coolant and distilled water till topped off. I had no visible sludge but as several here have stated, without draining the block and thoroughly flushing the system, I would not necessarily know??? Anyway, the coolant is changed yearly on my vehicles but instead of changing it and then doing the adaptor and gauge and whatsnot, I decided to do a before and after observation. So, this guage and this adaptor were installed with one year old coolant on purpose. ( The fact that I only drained and filled last year was not agghhemm on purpose!). The other thing worth mentioning is that my coolant to water ratio is off as evidenced by the -48 degree testout using my ethylene glycol floating arrow tester thingy. So since I have too much coolant, that would result in slightly lower cooling capacity as campared to a 50/50 ratio or perhaps even a 40/60 which should protect me in my temperatures for sure. Anyhoooooo...
I will record temps now and later with several hopefully helpful data points. To start, I drove a fast and furious drive through Denver and down the highway until I got stuck in some serious traffic so after all that the highest temp that was ever generated was 90 degrees Celsius which is 194 farenheit. Surprisingly to me was that the 90 degrees was not while I was flooring it up some serious slopes out of Denver, but when I was stuck in traffic. The average temp was between 86 and 88 degrees (186 to 190) and this average applied whether the heater was on or off. Also surprisingly to me is how utterly useless the stock gauge must be; from the time the real gauge read 65 all the way up to 90 the frickin factory gauge did not move one bit, not one bit at all. This is super surprising considering the "flat spot" of the factory gauge, at least if i recall correctly, was supposed to be from like 195 to 225 farenheit ... seems like that flat spot is measured with a voltmeter so I'm sure its accurate from a voltage perspective but all I can say is from the eyeball, it looks like the flat spot is much much larger??? I'm sorta confused about that.
I intend to record at least three other temps: The first with pure distilled water in the entire cooling system AFTER I thoroughly flush per E's method ( heater cores separately, then heater cores with block, then rad separately ). The second with a 50/50 mix of Toyota Red and distilled water. The third with a 40/60 mixture of coolant/water and a bottle of RedLine Water Wetter. I think from now on I'm going to go with the 40/60 and the water wetter so since this is the final goal, I want to get there but also have a comparison with 50/50.
Lastly, and sorry to ramble so much, a sincere thanks and salute to Mot who turned me on to this Greddy equipment. This has been hugely helpful to me and I would think that it would help whoever wants an accurate coolant temp gauge but does not want to or is not able to thread and tap that aluminum neck that goes to the upper rad hose. Thanks Mot, and thanks to the rest of ya fine fawkers, I mean fine folks, who helped and/or actually read this whole thing!!!
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turbo,
Enough already!!!
I think by following through with it you did all of us a favor so we would know the exact size of the adaptor and where to mount, etc...
I'd be curious to see some pics of how it's connected and also where you mounted the gauge, as well as how it looks during the day and when it's lit(sp) up.
Have you looked into whether the Blitz unit I had mentioned would work with the 80? I've been too lazy to call here. I think it just feeds off of OBDII, but as I mentioned, 80 was not on the list of compatible vehicles here (100 was).
Anyway, congrats and keep up the good work!
Mot
Enough already!!!
I think by following through with it you did all of us a favor so we would know the exact size of the adaptor and where to mount, etc...
I'd be curious to see some pics of how it's connected and also where you mounted the gauge, as well as how it looks during the day and when it's lit(sp) up.
Have you looked into whether the Blitz unit I had mentioned would work with the 80? I've been too lazy to call here. I think it just feeds off of OBDII, but as I mentioned, 80 was not on the list of compatible vehicles here (100 was).
Anyway, congrats and keep up the good work!
Mot
mot said:
Mot, I'll try to post some pics Monday; I have the digital camera at work but I will definitely do the pics as soon as possible.
I did not look into the Blitz much but the same place that sells the Greddy stuff also sells some super sweet Blitz stuff too. I know that reffug has a super sweet Blitz unit but I did not realize it fed off of our OBDII ports!!! Wow talk about convenience! Anyway, I'll post some pics and also some temps with different conditions and/or concentrations of coolant.
Al vs brass
Hi all,
I have enjoyed this thread about Al vs brass radiators and which performs better. I am not an automotive design expert(slow speed efficiency vs high speed efficiency) and so I approach this from a material properties slant.
Al alloy's thermal conductivity is over three times that of average brass. It is able to store (heat capcity) and diffuse about twice as much heat as brass. So from a material properties perspective, Al is better at dissappating heat when doing a side by side test of materials of the same dimensions (surface areal).
That being said, from what I have read in this post it is an apples and oranges comparision due to design. Spedifically, the total surface area of the coils. The brass may have three coils (?) vs the two coils in the Al radiator, but due to the thermal properites of the materials it may not effect the total cooling ability because the brass radiator has more surface area, but correct me if I am wrong on this. I don't know which has more so who knows.
This is all back of the envelope kind of stuff and I really don't know much of the specifics of the two different radiator designs. Just throwing out a couple of cents. The only way to test for sure is to do a garage exeriment. If someone in the S. AZ is bored and has access to both types of radiators, it is a relatively simple experiment to set up.
Ross
Hi all,
I have enjoyed this thread about Al vs brass radiators and which performs better. I am not an automotive design expert(slow speed efficiency vs high speed efficiency) and so I approach this from a material properties slant.
Al alloy's thermal conductivity is over three times that of average brass. It is able to store (heat capcity) and diffuse about twice as much heat as brass. So from a material properties perspective, Al is better at dissappating heat when doing a side by side test of materials of the same dimensions (surface areal).
That being said, from what I have read in this post it is an apples and oranges comparision due to design. Spedifically, the total surface area of the coils. The brass may have three coils (?) vs the two coils in the Al radiator, but due to the thermal properites of the materials it may not effect the total cooling ability because the brass radiator has more surface area, but correct me if I am wrong on this. I don't know which has more so who knows.
This is all back of the envelope kind of stuff and I really don't know much of the specifics of the two different radiator designs. Just throwing out a couple of cents. The only way to test for sure is to do a garage exeriment. If someone in the S. AZ is bored and has access to both types of radiators, it is a relatively simple experiment to set up.
Ross
Thermal Properties of Materials - Conductivity, W/cm-K
Silver 4.173
Copper 3.937
Gold 2.913
Aluminum 2.165
Tungsten 1.969
Beryllium 1.772
Magnesium 1.575
Molybdenum 1.299
Brass 1.220
Beryllium-
copper 1.063
Zinc 1.024
Nickel .906
Platinum .734
Iron .669
Steel .669
Tin .630
Lead .343
stainless -410 .240
Monel .197
Titanium .157
stainless -321 .146
yess aluminum cunducts almost twice as much as brass but copper almost twice as much as aluminum,
are we sure the "brass" radiator is not copper? I have asked this question before and the anwser was brass, I find it odd that they used brass on the land cruiser and what looked like copper on a similar aged tacoma
Silver 4.173
Copper 3.937
Gold 2.913
Aluminum 2.165
Tungsten 1.969
Beryllium 1.772
Magnesium 1.575
Molybdenum 1.299
Brass 1.220
Beryllium-
copper 1.063
Zinc 1.024
Nickel .906
Platinum .734
Iron .669
Steel .669
Tin .630
Lead .343
stainless -410 .240
Monel .197
Titanium .157
stainless -321 .146
yess aluminum cunducts almost twice as much as brass but copper almost twice as much as aluminum,
are we sure the "brass" radiator is not copper? I have asked this question before and the anwser was brass, I find it odd that they used brass on the land cruiser and what looked like copper on a similar aged tacoma
Thanks for the numbers, I was too lazy to look it up, I could only remember the relative comparisson.
This is bad, but I assume when they say brass, they mean brass. The other complication is the actual alloy they use. High copper brass will have better thermal properties.
The consensus on the board seems to be that the brass is a better radiator, so the material properties mean squat in the face of real world experience. I am just curious if the they have similar cooling abilities and that the Al is just more prone to failure-clogging, leaking, etc. Or is the desing of the brass radiator such that it has better cooling abilities desipte the inferior material properties if it is really brass and not copper. It is easy to tell if it is copper vs brass, every try to solder a brass fitting? Also shouldn't brass have a much higher resistance?
Cool thread.
Ross
This is bad, but I assume when they say brass, they mean brass. The other complication is the actual alloy they use. High copper brass will have better thermal properties.
The consensus on the board seems to be that the brass is a better radiator, so the material properties mean squat in the face of real world experience. I am just curious if the they have similar cooling abilities and that the Al is just more prone to failure-clogging, leaking, etc. Or is the desing of the brass radiator such that it has better cooling abilities desipte the inferior material properties if it is really brass and not copper. It is easy to tell if it is copper vs brass, every try to solder a brass fitting? Also shouldn't brass have a much higher resistance?
Cool thread.
Ross
I have that saved as it is a common discussion about computer heat sinks, aluminum is the standard higher end sinks are coper and sometimes silver ($$$)
I wonder if the core's on the brass radiator are brass and the fins copper? as it was only the fins I saw on the Tacoma, you would only need to look at the fins at an angle where the paint did not get and look for the red copper color vs the yellow of brass
I wonder if the core's on the brass radiator are brass and the fins copper? as it was only the fins I saw on the Tacoma, you would only need to look at the fins at an angle where the paint did not get and look for the red copper color vs the yellow of brass
When comparing to aluminum the thermal characteristics of a brass/copper radiator, you need to understand that the brass/copper core is coated with solder. My understanding is that the solder has an adverse affect on the thermal conductivity of brass/copper, with the end result that in the real world, with all else equal, an aluminum radiator with equal core to a brass/copper radiator is more efficient at transferring heat. By the way, my impression is that in non-plastic/non-aluminum radiators, the tanks are brass and the cores are copper. Do note that all factory 80 series radiators have plastic tanks, regardless of the core material.
Almost all manufactures have gone to aluminum radiators for two reasons, 1) due to toxicity manufacturers are somewhat motiviated to minimize use of lead, 2) aluminum is much lighter and the weight reduction improves fuel mileage. The second is the main reason for the migration to aluminum radiators.
And while this information is interesting, it is not sufficient to determine which of the two late 80 series factory radiators is more efficient.
Almost all manufactures have gone to aluminum radiators for two reasons, 1) due to toxicity manufacturers are somewhat motiviated to minimize use of lead, 2) aluminum is much lighter and the weight reduction improves fuel mileage. The second is the main reason for the migration to aluminum radiators.
And while this information is interesting, it is not sufficient to determine which of the two late 80 series factory radiators is more efficient.
To freaking cool Turbo. Dammit now there's something else I have to do to my rig. I might even try and condense this down for FAQ format. Very informative on several fronts appreciate all the excellent research and time of all who contributed. Well done MUD is the shizzle.
Another Update
Hi all, well today I performed the perfect flush using (more or less) E's method from the FAQ. First I collected everything from the rad and then from the block. I filled with water and warmed then drained the water. At this point, figuring things were diluted enough to catch what I could catch but eventually flush to the street, I removed one end of every major radiator and heater hose and I started flushing the rad by itself, then the block one way then the block another way (I'll explain) by itself, then backflushed the heater cores disconnected from the block, then backflushed the heater cores connected with the block. Basically I used the same method as the FAQ but without the pressure gauges and without the quick disconnects - just with 10 foot lengths of 5/8's, the right hose barbs and the right path for flow. Since that was so well done I wont repeat it here but two to three things I added were:
1. When flushing the rad I fed from the cap area as well as the upper radiator hose area. I combined flushing with the lower rad hose disconnected at that metal tube that goes back up to the thermostat area, and then flushed with that hose connected so that the rad would overflow. I repeated and changed repeated and changed and as Eric did, just pushed water all over the place with the rad isolated from anything else.
2. After flushing the rad, I then flushed huge amounts of water DOWN and in reverse on the upper radiator hose that goes to the aluminum neck. This sort of backflushed the block just from the drain plug point up to the aluminum neck and the radiator inlet.
3. After that I backflushed the heater cores which were also isolated from the block and from the rad. I flushed one way, then the next then the next, over and over.
4. After that I backflushed the heater cores which were now not isolated from the block. Not sure if it mattered much at all but I also worked the heater valve from inside the rig from hot to cold while the flushing flushed and flushed.
5. Then, to flush in one last way I forced water through the tap that supplies the turbo with its water supply and was easily able to push water both out the block and the heaters!
All in all I spent several hours flushing, and forcing water in one direction and then the other. I collected everything I could and only at the end of each cycle just let it dump out without worry. I am super happy to report that I have no sludge whatsoever - nothing in the first drains and nothing through all that flushing - no trace anywhere. At one point I almost crapped cause three or four flushes into the block, I looked down and saw a large amount of dirt on the top of the water I froze and then realized the squirting from the block hole had knocked some mud into the bucket! Anyway, no sludge, thank the good lord.
While I was in there I replaced several heater hoses as PM. Also after all the flushing I let things drip dry for a while and then put things together and added distilled water. After some slow warmup I drove around increasing and increasing the speed til the vehicle came to a max of 86 degrees celsius which is 186 farenheit - just six degrees over the thermostat IIRC! The highest temp I was able to read with the 60/40 heavy coolant to water ratio I had that was one year old was 90 c / 194f so it appears the pure distilled water does have a higher cooling capacity. Not that 194 is much temp wise but still its good to know where to get the gains right? Anyway, after a few drain and fills with distilled, I will goto 50/50 Toyota Red and record the temps, and then finally to about 40/60 Toyota Red/Water with Redline Watter Wetter and record that temp. I cant imagine anything getting much better than 186 but what the hell, we'll see!
Hi all, well today I performed the perfect flush using (more or less) E's method from the FAQ. First I collected everything from the rad and then from the block. I filled with water and warmed then drained the water. At this point, figuring things were diluted enough to catch what I could catch but eventually flush to the street, I removed one end of every major radiator and heater hose and I started flushing the rad by itself, then the block one way then the block another way (I'll explain) by itself, then backflushed the heater cores disconnected from the block, then backflushed the heater cores connected with the block. Basically I used the same method as the FAQ but without the pressure gauges and without the quick disconnects - just with 10 foot lengths of 5/8's, the right hose barbs and the right path for flow. Since that was so well done I wont repeat it here but two to three things I added were:
1. When flushing the rad I fed from the cap area as well as the upper radiator hose area. I combined flushing with the lower rad hose disconnected at that metal tube that goes back up to the thermostat area, and then flushed with that hose connected so that the rad would overflow. I repeated and changed repeated and changed and as Eric did, just pushed water all over the place with the rad isolated from anything else.
2. After flushing the rad, I then flushed huge amounts of water DOWN and in reverse on the upper radiator hose that goes to the aluminum neck. This sort of backflushed the block just from the drain plug point up to the aluminum neck and the radiator inlet.
3. After that I backflushed the heater cores which were also isolated from the block and from the rad. I flushed one way, then the next then the next, over and over.
4. After that I backflushed the heater cores which were now not isolated from the block. Not sure if it mattered much at all but I also worked the heater valve from inside the rig from hot to cold while the flushing flushed and flushed.
5. Then, to flush in one last way I forced water through the tap that supplies the turbo with its water supply and was easily able to push water both out the block and the heaters!
All in all I spent several hours flushing, and forcing water in one direction and then the other. I collected everything I could and only at the end of each cycle just let it dump out without worry. I am super happy to report that I have no sludge whatsoever - nothing in the first drains and nothing through all that flushing - no trace anywhere. At one point I almost crapped cause three or four flushes into the block, I looked down and saw a large amount of dirt on the top of the water I froze and then realized the squirting from the block hole had knocked some mud into the bucket! Anyway, no sludge, thank the good lord.
While I was in there I replaced several heater hoses as PM. Also after all the flushing I let things drip dry for a while and then put things together and added distilled water. After some slow warmup I drove around increasing and increasing the speed til the vehicle came to a max of 86 degrees celsius which is 186 farenheit - just six degrees over the thermostat IIRC! The highest temp I was able to read with the 60/40 heavy coolant to water ratio I had that was one year old was 90 c / 194f so it appears the pure distilled water does have a higher cooling capacity. Not that 194 is much temp wise but still its good to know where to get the gains right? Anyway, after a few drain and fills with distilled, I will goto 50/50 Toyota Red and record the temps, and then finally to about 40/60 Toyota Red/Water with Redline Watter Wetter and record that temp. I cant imagine anything getting much better than 186 but what the hell, we'll see!
Another Update And Unexpected Result
Hi all, just the third data point in the series of four data points on what type of temps I am getting from my cooling system. I recorded an average with one year old coolant in a 60/40 (approx) mix of Toyota Red and distilled water, then I recorded with 100% distilled water and now I am giving the results of 50/50 with Toyota Red/Distilled Water after an amazingly thorough cooling system flush.
I did not expect that the average temp with the 50/50 would be LOWER than the average temp with 100% H2O but apparently, it is. I am now averaging 84 degrees celsius with the 50/50 mix; with the pure 100% H20 the temp average was closer to 86 degrees celsius. Perhaps Toyota Red, unlike most other coolants, actually increases the cooling capacity of pure water? Who knows?
My last recording will be the 50/50 with just enough removed to get the Redline Water Wetter in there. We will see if that lowers it still but so far the 50/50 with TR seems to work super well! Hopefully all these readings are of value to others. Take care folks, next update sooner or later!
Hi all, just the third data point in the series of four data points on what type of temps I am getting from my cooling system. I recorded an average with one year old coolant in a 60/40 (approx) mix of Toyota Red and distilled water, then I recorded with 100% distilled water and now I am giving the results of 50/50 with Toyota Red/Distilled Water after an amazingly thorough cooling system flush.
I did not expect that the average temp with the 50/50 would be LOWER than the average temp with 100% H2O but apparently, it is. I am now averaging 84 degrees celsius with the 50/50 mix; with the pure 100% H20 the temp average was closer to 86 degrees celsius. Perhaps Toyota Red, unlike most other coolants, actually increases the cooling capacity of pure water? Who knows?
My last recording will be the 50/50 with just enough removed to get the Redline Water Wetter in there. We will see if that lowers it still but so far the 50/50 with TR seems to work super well! Hopefully all these readings are of value to others. Take care folks, next update sooner or later!
Turbo I found the same to be true. I recently did the full flush and on the final flush with RO water and fill with RO water and drove it with 100% RO water for a week. It ran cooler in all conditions sitting still, highway, and wheeling. After a week I drained the block and radiator again then I refilled with only 1 quart of Mr T’s red and a pint of Redline’s WaterWetter to gain more room for water. I have a 100% aluminum radiator and was concerned about my corrosion protection with only 1 quart of red. So I called Redlines tech about the additive pack to the WaterWetter and they said that 1-pint of WaterWetter provided way more corrosive protection then 1 quart of any anti-freeze (I hope they are right). I also checked with the manufacture of my radiator and they gave the thumbs up on my formula and added the most important thing is to service the cooling system regularly.
In researching the aluminum and brass radiators I found the cooling capabilities to be almost the same with no clear advantage either way. The only advantages the aluminum had over brass were 100% aluminum construction (no solder), lightweight, and a psi strength 32 pounds. Also the aluminum seems to cool down very fast after pushing hard up a hill. I’m not implying aluminum is better but it works for me and it looks cool.
In researching the aluminum and brass radiators I found the cooling capabilities to be almost the same with no clear advantage either way. The only advantages the aluminum had over brass were 100% aluminum construction (no solder), lightweight, and a psi strength 32 pounds. Also the aluminum seems to cool down very fast after pushing hard up a hill. I’m not implying aluminum is better but it works for me and it looks cool.
LandCruiserPhil said:
You know, as I find out more and more about this thing I am thinking that if my aluminum radiator ever leaks, I just might replace it with the OEM Aluminum again! I mean from following this thread I have remembered ( or relearned really - that's what happens when you forget what you supposedly learned! Doh!!! ) the cooling capacity of aluminum as a metal, and, I have remembered that regardless of how good copper's cooling capacity is, the solder on the copper rad must detract, at least a little, from its cooling capacity? Am I understanding this right so far? Also, it sounds like the two thick aluminum rows might have equal or even more surface area than the three row rad??? Again, am I understanding this right? At first I assumed the 3 row would cool better than the 2 row but from above I learned that the 2 rows on the aluminum are larger so now who knows? Also from what Phil is saying, the burst strength of the aluminum is actually more than copper (although I'd hate to have to rely on that fact!) and I agree that the system cools down super fast - since I got the temp gauge I have really watched with wonder and it amazes me how long it takes to raise the temp and how short it takes to cool it down, there is no way to witness that with the stock gauge but with the temp gauge going I can for example really work the rig up long steep slopes and it takes ten times longer for the gauge to go from 84 degrees to 90 degrees (where it holds and has not gone higher) than it does for the temp to drop from 90 to like 86 when you ease off. Now of course this might be the same thing with the other rad I have no way to know but still I'm surprised by the efficiency of the system as it is now especially considering forced induction that is liquid (and oil) cooled so at least some heat from the turbo must be making its way to the cooling system. Anyway, I'm just babbling now (its the holiday rum!) but also from above the main reason for the other OEM rad is cost which is reason enough, BUT, if someone can prove that the Aluminum OEM has slightly higher cooling capacity, then that would take position one as my next rad! If on the other hand the cooling capacities are close AND the other rad is also less likely to leak, etc etc etc then I would want the other one. So far it sounds like cost, not cooling, not reliability, not materials, and not surface area is the reason for the other rad so IF that is true, I'd drop the extra cents on the aluminum, I guess. Any thoughts? Ohh, I'm not at all arguing with anyone who endorses the copper/brass (what are the materials actually?), I'm just trying to ask and trying to learn about both rads so let me have it!!!
