Aluminum Radiator?

[cruiserdan]

Buy the aluminum one...............from me...


I don't stock it 'cuz everybody likes the brass one but that won't stop me from getting an extra 90 bucks or so outa ya.............

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Turbo for the record mine is aftermarket aluminum with a louvered fin design (better cooling?). So I dont know if the psi strength and cooling properties are the same for OEM aluminum.

 

[turbocruiser]

Buy the aluminum one...............from me...


I don't stock it 'cuz everybody likes the brass one but that won't stop me from getting an extra 90 bucks or so outa ya.............

Dan, you know I know where to shop! The extra 90's easy especially if it is indeed more cooling capacity, BUT, you will have to wait for me to have a leak, but rest assured, when I have a leak, I'll take it your way!!!

 

[turbocruiser]

Turbo for the record mine is aftermarket aluminum with a louvered fin design (better cooling?). So I dont know if the psi strength and cooling properties are the same for OEM aluminum.

Cool! Ha ha, pun intended. Thanks for the facts though...what type is the rad you run? Do you have an aftermarket temp gauge, and if so what, if any, was the difference in operating temp between the OEM and the aftermarket one? Thanks.

 

[cruiserdan]

BUT, you will have to wait for me to have a leak

Um,


Did you get that sharp stick I sent you for Chrismas?................

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Cool! Ha ha, pun intended. Thanks for the facts though...what type is the rad you run?

http://www.rondavisradiators.com

Do you have an aftermarket temp gauge, and if so what, if any, was the difference in operating temp between the OEM and the aftermarket one? Thanks.

Autometer temp gauge. As you know the OEM temp gauge is totally worthless

 

[turbocruiser]

Um,


Did you get that sharp stick I sent you for Chrismas?................

Ahh yeaaahhh, but that is not where I thought I was supposed to stick it!!! Next time send me some instructions, sheesh!!!

 

[RavenTai]

In *theory* it should be the gauge that is the issue. I have "linearized" the OEM gauge on my track car. You should be able to do it with the LC gauge as well if you want to dig into it. Unfortunately, I can't tell you which resistors to use. Someone I know did all the experimenting for me and I just followed his instructions when doing mine. The basic principles are here:
http://tinyurl.com/4x5fm

Perhaps there's an EE on this board that might want to dig into it?

Mike

Here is the graph I previously posted. It only goes to 210 degrees as I tested in a water bath. Bill has a graph that goes higher.

Does anyone have a salvage instrument panel for exploring the development of a mod similiar to that posted by Mike for Miatas?

pulled the cluster out tonight to replace the "power" bulb, wile I had it out i started digging, the 96 guage is made by the same company as the miata, it has "Yazaki Meter" prnted on the back of the face card, on the front of the face card 769135-581 and the board 769916-420 in copper, unlike the miata it has only one zener diode and one resistor, also unlike the miata it is in tandom with the oil pressure guage but they do not share any circuitry besides a common power source marked "IGN"

made a schematic of it when I get my PC back up will try to post it. but basically it has a coil with 4 contacts, one positive marked IGN, one ground marked -, the third not connected nor marked (marked "T" on the miata) , the fourth marked "U" Tee's in through the diode to a spot inbetween the sender and the resistor (75 ohm) , negative of the (Zener?) diode away from the coil, the other side of the resistor is + other side of the sender is ground

the 3 connected contact of the coil have one strand of wire disapearing into the coil, all three strands apear to terminate together at the 4'th not connected contact

it should be possible to correct this meter also but figuring out what parts need to be installed and where is above me, I was hoping it would be electrically the same as one of the Miata's but it is only close

anybody have the skill and equipment to figure this one out?

 

[turbocruiser]

pulled the cluster out tonight to replace the "power" bulb, wile I had it out i started digging, the 96 guage is made by the same company as the miata, it has "Yazaki Meter" prnted on the back of the face card, on the front of the face card 769135-581 and the board 769916-420 in copper, unlike the miata it has only one zener diode and one resistor, also unlike the miata it is in tandom with the oil pressure guage but they do not share any circuitry besides a common power source marked "IGN"

made a schematic of it when I get my PC back up will try to post it. but basically it has a coil with 4 contacts, one positive marked IGN, one ground marked -, the third not connected nor marked (marked "T" on the miata) , the fourth marked "U" Tee's in through the diode to a spot inbetween the sender and the resistor (75 ohm) , negative of the (Zener?) diode away from the coil, the other side of the resistor is + other side of the sender is ground

the 3 connected contact of the coil have one strand of wire disapearing into the coil, all three strands apear to terminate together at the 4'th not connected contact

it should be possible to correct this meter also but figuring out what parts need to be installed and where is above me, I was hoping it would be electrically the same as one of the Miata's but it is only close

anybody have the skill and equipment to figure this one out?

Wow, Raven, this is great, a few things come to mind to make this work (non electrical things really since you covered that). First, someone would likely want to take the oil bath temp test with the sensor attached to the gauge to insure that the sensor and the gauge work together and are totally linear together (resistance on sensor and movement on gauge) but then even after the sensor and gauge are linearized someone probably would want to observe a few things such as approximately where the needle should rest, where it should peak out at on the upper end of safe temps, and finally where the actual gauge peaks out at on red (IOW 250F, 270F what is the temp when the needle hits the top). Once this is done what would be really cool is to create a completely scaled overlay with clear transparency type sheets that go through either ink or laser printers. The actual overlay would probably be approx 1 inch by 2 inches or so, so that would mean you could get 40 or so of em on one transparency sheet. I would think any number of programs could make matching hatch marks with temps that go up in an arc, it is probably just as easy to color these marks green, yellow, and red as they rise up the arc. Taking this overlay and adhering it to the plastic slanted shield that covers up the instrument cluster would give a good visual to the gauge that will help people with thought number two below...

The second thing that comes to mind is that the amount of actual movement that the needle will make will mean that people are going to have to get used to all the movement that is gonna come when that needle is actually accurate and be able to ignore (not worry about) all that while they also pay attention to (and worry about) the needle at the upper end of safe temps. I would think that this would be hard to do without the above mentioned overlay as the difference from the low operating temp to the upper operating temp might be no more than one half inch or so on the actual gauge??? When you consider that the factory gauge has about 1.25 inches of needle movement and an aftermarket gauge has like 3 to 6 inches (based on circumference of 52mm to 60mm gauges and considering that not all the circumference is used) you can see why the stock gauge is risky to linearize from a consumer friendly perspective. Anyway, it would be super cool to get this mod worked out cause as far as I have learned, the best place to take the temp is from where the stock sensor is. To be able to match that up with an accurate factory gauge with an accurate overlay and an accurate aftermarket gauge would be the best of both worlds. Great stuff man.

 

[turbocruiser]

Another Update W/ Pics

Hi folks, sorry so late with the pics but its been horribly hectic here (no excuse, just an explanation). I wanted to post the pics of the adaptor, sensor and gauge for the coolant temp setup in the hope it might help someone here who wants an extremely easily installed accurate aftermarket temp gauge.

 

[turbocruiser]

And another pic (sorry I'm s***ty at sizing and formatting these things to fit) ...

 

[turbocruiser]

And another, the gauge looks disproportionately large here due to the way that the camera was held but from the drivers look, it is in perfect position and it is only obstructing the view of the 2nd, and Low lights on the dash. HTH

 

[mot]

turbo,

Good work!

Thanks for the pics. I'm sure the information you have provided through your experience will help many folks who will want to go the same route!

Mot

 

[RavenTai]

sorry I forgot here are the pics I was talking about,
the bottom of the gage, the upper half is the oil pressure portion, they only share +

top side, gage windings on the left, gray 75 ohm resistor on right, assumed zener diode in middle ground, background is oil pressure parts.

schematic as layed out with EWD pin-outs

easier to read schematic

hopefully this will spur the more skilled to look into it I think all that needs to be done is change the value of the diode and resistor, what to change them to I dont know.

in the mean time I will try to find an 80 cluster and sensor to play with

it all looks very simialr to the miata and is made by the same company, we also have the same problem. just need to adapt that mod the the 80.

 

[RavenTai]

one last bump before this goes off the front page.^

 

[turbocruiser]

top side, gage windings on the left, gray 75 ohm resistor on right, assumed zener diode in middle ground, background is oil pressure parts.

schematic as layed out with EWD pin-outs

easier to read schematic

hopefully this will spur the more skilled to look into it I think all that needs to be done is change the value of the diode and resistor, what to change them to I dont know.

in the mean time I will try to find an 80 cluster and sensor to play with

it all looks very simialr to the miata and is made by the same company, we also have the same problem. just need to adapt that mod the the 80.

Hi Raven, thanks again, this is great. I'm thinking there are two ways to go about this.

The first is to play with the both the resistor and diode values until you get the gauge as close to linear as possible without any dead spots.

The second, fast and dirty, method would be to just "relocate" the flat spot to a range that does not matter like say 30 degrees to 56 degrees or something like that.

From my rusty memory you can probably leave the zener diode alone since it runs in ranges of values that are probably all okay for the gauge. So with that in mind, the resistor looks like the place to aim the targets and shoot a solution. It might be simply a trial and error thing unless we have some EE's that can cram this through a formula for us??? Any EE's out there? Otherwise, I guess I'd go to a lower resistor which should shift the shift point of the zener lower and lower. I'm thinking you keep lowering the shift point of the zener and sooner or later you have the dead spot in a range that wont matter? (I'm clearly not completely sure of this - this is going back to that one semester in shop class on electronics! - knowing me, I got it all backasswards here? - anyway, man I had a cool shop teacher!!!)

Its sort ofa shot from the hip but hey we gotta start somewhere!!! Even though I have an accurate aftermarket gauge measuring what the block and head and turbo send to the rad, I'd still love to have the stock gauge tell me more about what's going on where its at. Thanks again man, good stuff.

 

[RavenTai]

Even though I have an accurate aftermarket gauge measuring what the block and head and turbo send to the rad, I'd still love to have the stock gauge tell me more about what's going on where its at.

that aftermarket guage you put in is the best solution, an accurate readout with actual #'s, but me being a cheap skate I would be happy with a factory gage that shows all movement in temprature, then i could get used to its normal range and know when it moves above that, having both would be great.

for an EE to run the math on that he/she would need the value of the diode, what voltage it will allow reverse current (I am not 100% sure it is a zener diode, just an educated guess) with the value of the diode should be pretty easy to figure out.

but to be sure someone need to boil one of those sensors and see where the modifid gage moves at each temprature