re_guderian
SILVER Star
Remind us, is your GX a '23? I wonder if anything changed in the frame/LCA geometry? If not this conversation, then you'd be having others (rubbing, pinch welds, etc. etc.)
Alignment specs after lift
- Thread starter sPaulp
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So what should caster be set to? Here's my alignment sheet on my 19 after I did Dobinsons springs that gave me about 1.25 inch lift in the front. My truck drives straight and stable on the highway.
re_guderian
SILVER Star
I'm pretty convinced that most alignment shops don't really even try to do much of anything. They changed your toe by a couple of threads on you tie rod ends, that's about all they did. But your caster wasn't THAT bad to start with, certainly much better that the OP's.
- Thread starter
- #24
Ok, so after getting the SPC’s installed, and 4 alignment attempts with 4 different shops later, this is the best anyone has been able to do at this point. It amazes me the lack of 4x4 support, knowledge, or skill in upstate NY with such a rural surrounding. Incompetent techs are a dime a dozen these days. It appears I need to broaden my search for an alignment shop 2 hours or further out from my house….
r2m
Richard
Does it feel better now with this alignment than before? Track better or??
- Thread starter
- #26
Only drove it home from the dealer. But, the steering wheel is still crooked and to short of a drive to tell. For reference, the shop yesterday had my wheels back in the wheel well so far that they rubbed horribly from just turning left on right on a level road. So, within a 2 hour drive of zip 13901, does anyone know of a competent alignment shop that has any clue how to dial in an alignment with a 1.75" lift and SCP upper control arms? It's astonishing how difficult it is here in upstate NY to find a shop that has any clue how to do this. Ugh.....
- Thread starter
- #28
im sorry you're getting a run around.
theres plenty of adjustments to get this correct.
it has zero to do with off road and everything to do with no givingafuck.
that DS is laughable.
i wish i could fix it for you. id have you dialed in ten minutes.
theres plenty of adjustments to get this correct.
it has zero to do with off road and everything to do with no givingafuck.
that DS is laughable.
i wish i could fix it for you. id have you dialed in ten minutes.
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- Thread starter
- #30
Can you tell me what needs to be done from the pics so that I can convey this to an alignment tech who maybe will understand? I would greatly appreciate it and feel free to IM me if neccessary.
- Thread starter
- #32
- Thread starter
- #33
So, per the specs I posted today, how bad can I wear out my tires until I find a competent alignment shop? My left Caster and Camber are out of whack, but that's what I got for now until I can do the 5th and hopefully last alignment somewhere soon.
r2m
Richard
I should have mentioned this earlier, but completely slipped my mind.
See if you can find a 4 Wheel Parts store near you. All they do is off road vehicles and being a large chain, they have a pretty good reputation.
I've never been disappointed with the few times I've used them. Only reason I don't use them more is there's a bunch of off road houses all around here in So. Cal. with some specializing in Toyota products, and the 4 Wheel Parts nearest closed some years ago.
See if you can find a 4 Wheel Parts store near you. All they do is off road vehicles and being a large chain, they have a pretty good reputation.
I've never been disappointed with the few times I've used them. Only reason I don't use them more is there's a bunch of off road houses all around here in So. Cal. with some specializing in Toyota products, and the 4 Wheel Parts nearest closed some years ago.
- Thread starter
- #35
Unfortunately, there is not a 4 Wheel Parts store near me...no joke. Hard to believe here in upsate NY, but there is very little off road support.I should have mentioned this earlier, but completely slipped my mind.
See if you can find a 4 Wheel Parts store near you. All they do is off road vehicles and being a large chain, they have a pretty good reputation.
I've never been disappointed with the few times I've used them. Only reason I don't use them more is there's a bunch of off road houses all around here in So. Cal. with some specializing in Toyota products, and the 4 Wheel Parts nearest closed some years ago.
re_guderian
SILVER Star
Phew, glad I'm not the first one again to have to burst your bubble about the crappy shops in your area. The good news is, your caster is better. The bad news is that the rubbing is predictable, since the SPC install shop likely didn't mess with the LCA's at all. And the fact that your camber is out is inexcusable, given that you're running "adjustable" upper control arms. That's the whole point. He can dial in the caster, and then slide the ENTIRE upper ball joint assembly in and out in the slot in the UCA to dial in camber. Maybe this will be the impetus to realize the pervasive ineptitude in the industry, and emolden you to go out and "fix it yourself", haha. No, seriously...
Your next step: Go out to your rig, and take a better picture of the upper ball join on both sides. It is entirely possible that the shop that installed the SPC UCA's didn't put both joints in the same position, and that would (be the easiest way to) explain the one degree difference between the L and R side. Take some pictures inside the wheel well looking down at about 45 degrees on to the upper ball joint assembly so that you can assess yours, versus the diagram below.
Do the same for both sides, to see if they are installed in the same position.
It appears as if the DS is set to position "D". Can't discern the passengers side from the photos you posted, but it very well could be in position "E", which would explain the extra caster on the DS.
And no lie, I got a little sea-sick trying to figure out your cam pictures. Usually easier if the ground is near the bottom and level-ish...
In any, case, they are not both maxed out, though it looks like driver's rear one might be (fully outboard).
Your next step: Go out to your rig, and take a better picture of the upper ball join on both sides. It is entirely possible that the shop that installed the SPC UCA's didn't put both joints in the same position, and that would (be the easiest way to) explain the one degree difference between the L and R side. Take some pictures inside the wheel well looking down at about 45 degrees on to the upper ball joint assembly so that you can assess yours, versus the diagram below.
Do the same for both sides, to see if they are installed in the same position.
It appears as if the DS is set to position "D". Can't discern the passengers side from the photos you posted, but it very well could be in position "E", which would explain the extra caster on the DS.
And no lie, I got a little sea-sick trying to figure out your cam pictures. Usually easier if the ground is near the bottom and level-ish...
In any, case, they are not both maxed out, though it looks like driver's rear one might be (fully outboard).
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- Thread starter
- #37
So sorry for the bad pics…ugh, I feel your frustration. Hope this UCA angle help?Phew, glad I'm not the first one again to have to burst your bubble about the crappy shops in your area. The good news is, your caster is better. The bad news is that the rubbing is predictable, since the SPC install shop likely didn't mess with the LCA's at all. And the fact that your camber is out is inexcusable, given that you're running "adjustable" upper control arms. That's the whole point. He can dial in the caster, and then slide the ENTIRE upper ball joint assembly in and out in the slot in the UCA to dial in camber. Maybe this will be the impetus to realize the pervasive ineptitude in the industry, and emolden you to go out and "fix it yourself", haha. No, seriously...
Your next step: Go out to your rig, and take a better picture of the upper ball join on both sides. It is entirely possible that the shop that installed the SPC UCA's didn't put both joints in the same position, and that would (be the easiest way to) explain the one degree difference between the L and R side. Take some pictures inside the wheel well looking down at about 45 degrees on to the upper ball joint assembly so that you can assess yours, versus the diagram below.
View attachment 3175419
View attachment 3175421
Do the same for both sides, to see if they are installed in the same position.
It appears as if the DS is set to position "D". Can't discern the passengers side from the photos you posted, but it very well could be in position "E", which would explain the extra caster on the DS.
And no lie, I got a little sea-sick trying to figure out your cam pictures. Usually easier if the ground is near the bottom and level-ish...
In any, case, they are not both maxed out, though it looks like driver's rear one might be (fully outboard).
re_guderian
SILVER Star
Well the good news is that at least your tech set the upper ball joints on both sides the same (position D), and greased your ball joints... The other piece of good news is that it probably drives pretty well at speed now. I doubt you could tell the difference of 1 degree between the L/R side, except that you mention your steering wheel is off center? That is strange, since That shouldn't have changed much based on your toe measurements.
Are you still getting rubbing?
Confirm you rig was purchased brand new? no accident history, frame damage, etc? that would prevent good mechanical alignment?
This has to be really infuriating for you. 2 Toyota shops with idiots in the alignment dept. 2 other shops with equal idiots. This really shouldn't take a competent alignment shop more that an hour to dial in. Your tire size is close to that of having rubbing issues, especially with the offset on the 18" OEM rims (the rim center line is closer inboard to the center of the car). But really again, with SPC uppers, the process is rotate the lowers as far forward as possible to avoid the rubbing in the back, and not rub up front, then dial in the alignment with the upper ball joints by rotating their position to dial in caster and slide them in and out to dial in camber. Adjust TRE for toe. There is just no reason for your steering wheel center position to have changed that much. When driving straight down the road, which direction is your steering wheel point relative to straight?
Find a local Jeep club, and hit them up for where they go for alignments?
And I'm still lost on your cam bolts, which is which. If you need more help, post up pictures clearly labeled as Pass Front, Pass Rear, Driver Front, Driver Rear, etc.
Anyway, I don't "think" a 1 degree difference L to R, and that high above spec would shred your tires or steering gear in the immediate future. After my initial Freedom UCA install I drove it around for a bit with caster at 5.5+ degrees. The steering was noticeably heavy. Tell us how you think it drives currently. So - plan a weekend away with your wife, drop the rig off at the nearest recommended shop that's 4-5 hours away, have a nice relaxing lunch while they dial it in, and get it sorted properly in the coming weeks...
good luck
Are you still getting rubbing?
Confirm you rig was purchased brand new? no accident history, frame damage, etc? that would prevent good mechanical alignment?
This has to be really infuriating for you. 2 Toyota shops with idiots in the alignment dept. 2 other shops with equal idiots. This really shouldn't take a competent alignment shop more that an hour to dial in. Your tire size is close to that of having rubbing issues, especially with the offset on the 18" OEM rims (the rim center line is closer inboard to the center of the car). But really again, with SPC uppers, the process is rotate the lowers as far forward as possible to avoid the rubbing in the back, and not rub up front, then dial in the alignment with the upper ball joints by rotating their position to dial in caster and slide them in and out to dial in camber. Adjust TRE for toe. There is just no reason for your steering wheel center position to have changed that much. When driving straight down the road, which direction is your steering wheel point relative to straight?
Find a local Jeep club, and hit them up for where they go for alignments?
And I'm still lost on your cam bolts, which is which. If you need more help, post up pictures clearly labeled as Pass Front, Pass Rear, Driver Front, Driver Rear, etc.
Anyway, I don't "think" a 1 degree difference L to R, and that high above spec would shred your tires or steering gear in the immediate future. After my initial Freedom UCA install I drove it around for a bit with caster at 5.5+ degrees. The steering was noticeably heavy. Tell us how you think it drives currently. So - plan a weekend away with your wife, drop the rig off at the nearest recommended shop that's 4-5 hours away, have a nice relaxing lunch while they dial it in, and get it sorted properly in the coming weeks...
good luck
I just installed 35s, and adjusted the LCAs forward for tire clearance. I already had SPC UCAs. I took it to a local alignment shop that has been in business for decades, with NARY A COMPUTER IN SIGHT. The tech had not seen SPC UCAs before, but once I showed him how to adjust camber and caster via the UCA he was tickled at how easy it was and had me dialed in in less than an hour, including straightening the steering wheel (which simply involves moving both toe adjusters one way or the other) and test drives.
Point being, they knew what they were doing. "Computerized" alignments are a crutch for those who don't.
Point being, they knew what they were doing. "Computerized" alignments are a crutch for those who don't.
- Thread starter
- #40
My rig is new, and just passed only 1k miles. Ok, here is an alignment I had done today by the original Toyota dealer whose tech told me I needed aftermarket UCA’s. So, everything is in the green now which is good. It drives straight and steering wheel is straight. The caster is in the green on both sides but visually the tire still sits slightly back favoring the rear wheel well slightly rather than centered in the wheel well. There is zero rubbing but could he have gone higher on the caster spec and still been in the green? On the sheet, it says “2020-2022 GX 460”.
