Advice on the condition of this turbo? Thanks.

[DanS HJ-45]

Just to be sure I've got that right Kevin:

Those pictures are of the checks while it's being magnafluxed, right? Not under dye penetrant?

If it were me, I'd check on the price of a new head first. If not TOO bad, I'd just get a new one (and keep that one as a spare). If crazy pricey, I'd run that. Most of those will eventually turn into real cracks, but the question is how long will that take. Could be 3,000 miles, or it could be 3,000,000. I simply don't know.

Dan

 

[kevinmrowland]

I don't see many opened 1HZ down here .. ( still rolling never opened ) but plenty 2H and all with that kind of " cracks " ( I wouldn't call as is ) and still doing the job day by day .. not even with clean oil of carefully drivers thinking with it's the best oil or waiting for engine to warm up before rev up to the limit ..

Yeah, cracks are not the right word, heat checks are better. That's the bummer about this is that we have babied the engine. When I first got the motor is was WAY over fueled, makes me think that all this stuff has been there from some prior abuse and excessive heat.

My 2H looked worse than that and was leaking into comb. gas into coolant system. I don't envy your position at all. It's tough to decide on what to do as I'm not sure welding and machining can be done or would hold up.

Best of luck...

Anything can be fixed, it's just a question of weather the part is worth it, in this case no. My understanding is that to weld the cracks you put the head in an annealing oven and heat it up red-hot, then do you fixes on the already chamfered out checks. The problem with heating it to that degree is that EVERY machined surface is no longer any good, the valve guides fall out, pre-cup bores are not the same size anymore, every treaded hole, every bearing surface, every seat needs to be re-machined, and in many cases- oversized. So you end up having to get custom parts to fit the new oversized holes.

The other approach is to drill and pin the cracks so they have a place to terminate, not everything can be fixed this way, and you still have to machine certain areas, but it does work.

The way the motor guy puts it is there are only two choices, run it, or replace it.

If your guy says run it(the head) throw it back on,at least its one of the easiest parts to swap,you can get them new,just factor in a new head in the next 12 months or so,you can still get even 2h heads new,12ht you can not .

Well, what he says is that he personally wouldn't run it, but 95% of people would. While it's a simple job to swap the head around, there is a lot of investment to be lost in doing the work temporarily, several hundred dollars in one-time use parts and gaskets, in addition to any machine work that needs to be done (worst-case scenario on the head/valve work is that it could cost as much as $400)

Shame you can't find an HD-T with a lunched crank.

Anything can be found with deep enough pockets...

Just to be sure I've got that right Kevin:
Those pictures are of the checks while it's being magnafluxed, right? Not under dye penetrant?
If it were me, I'd check on the price of a new head first. If not TOO bad, I'd just get a new one (and keep that one as a spare). If crazy pricey, I'd run that. Most of those will eventually turn into real cracks, but the question is how long will that take. Could be 3,000 miles, or it could be 3,000,000. I simply don't know.
Dan

Yup, magnaflux, no die.
I'm not comfortable running the head, could be just fine, could not be, but we rely on the truck to take us way out there, and we are almost always by ourselves, we put a lot of time and love into making sure things are just right and I have the feeling that knowing the cracks are there would ruin every trip for me. The motor guy is in line with your thinking as well, "it could run for 2k miles, or it could run for 200k" but the thing for me is that he says it will NOT run for 400k miles, and that is what I shoot for.

I just don't think there is any way I would be comfortable running it the way it is unless I find some confirmed info that they indeed "all do that".



As a side note, this motor guy has been great, right mix of personalities, he's never worked on an HZ before and he is kind of enjoying it, tells me that he is very impressed with the engineering and thought that went into it.

 

[gerg]

Last time my HG blew I had the head checked and it was cracked as well and I was under some serous time pressure to get the truck on the road and running so I put it back on. I did have combustion leaks into my coolant and it leaked a fair bit under load. I used this stuff called "Steal Seal" to buy me some time to let me prepare for a brand new head and get it ceramic coated and ported and stuff. Anyhow, it has totally sealed the combustion leaks and has lasted for a year with towing and high egts and high boost and still no leaks. Sadly it did seal up my radiator completely which I had to replace. The company did refund me the 50 bucks, but I was quite choked about the radiator.

Not giving you any advice, but just letting you know what I did when I was in your situation. People feel free to flame on, but it did what I wanted it to. Bought me time for a new head. I actually did it as a last ditch attempt rather than jump into a new head and not get to work on it like I wanted to. I wasn't expecting it to seal a diesel motor.
g

 

[Tapage]

well to put it simple IMOP .. you want do it by the book .. but life it's funny and you will find yourself in many situations that do it by the book ain't possible .. so you do your best to keep moving. I like to see black and white but there are lots of gray stuff in the middle ..

 

[Leitrum3]

Ok, so I got a big box of parts from Engines Australia, seems like a good kit, got all the bearings, seals, and new pistons.

The bearings are Taiho and ACL, gaskets look good, I will be going with Mr T for the oil seals though.
KR

I've read that there are upgraded pistons you can get for the 1HZ, per Gbentik in this post:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/509226-1hz-turbo-question.html
Just curious if you looked into it, or if it's wishful thinking...

 

[ForealBoreal]

If you read the thread it was brought up and the price was discussed.

 

[Leitrum3]

Ah, I guess I missed that part of the discussion. I've been on the road for a while and haven't read everything. I'll look back and see what the consensus was for curiosity's sake.

 

[kevinmrowland]

.. but life it's funny and you will find yourself in many situations that do it by the book ain't possible ..

Too true. I'll get as close as I can afford.

Ah, I guess I missed that part of the discussion. I've been on the road for a while and haven't read everything. I'll look back and see what the consensus was for curiosity's sake.

Not a problem at all Leit, I mentioned the Engines Australia info earlier on, but here is what I have found out:

From Engines Australia they have two kits, an $825 non-turbo kit and a $1872 turbo kit. The turbo kit has ceramic coated thicker crown pistons for $114 each (compared to the standards at $37.20 each) and since they have the HD-T sized 33mm gudgeon pin it has new connecting rods for $132 each, everything else in the kit is the same.
When you break it down that way the prices are really not bad at all, but not affordable in my case. On top of that these nice ceramic coated pistons were not available in .50" oversize so it would not have worked for me anyway.


Another option was this place RooDogs, they have similar kits for the HZ, $1350 for non turbo and $2250 for turbo, the turbo kits are heavier pistons and HD con-rods with the 33mm pin. These pistons have a thicker crowns, the 33mm pin and also have a steel insert above the top ring.
I got a price of $695 for just the pistons, but that included freight. The information I got from RooDogs was a lot less detailed so that is all the info I have for their stuff.


The way I am looking at it is that one of my pistons deformed a bit from too much heat and scored the piston wall, that was what was wrong with the engine.
But, between every valve set in my head there are heat checks. To me that says that my head had more damage than my pistons, so if I upgrade my pistons, the head is still going to be a weak spot.
I don't think that I did this damage, I think that the motor had been run a bit hard in it's prior life and we were able to eek out another 7 years of conscientious use. I'm going to put it back together as best I can, drive it carefully like I did before and we will see how long it goes.



Along the same lines I've always wanted to turn down the turbo a bit, it will go as high as 11 under load and all I want to see 9psi. As far as I can tell there have been no modifications to the HD-T turbo that is on there and I know that people will just put washers behind the wastegate actuator to get it to dump at higher pressure. I was thinking I might just shave a little off the mounts to get it to dump sooner. Or, I will cut the rod and put in an adjustable coupler, It would be next to impossible to get to in the motor bay though so I'm not really keen on that idea.


KR

 

[kevinmrowland]

I'm still waiting to see what I can figure out for a new head, really don't want to use the checked one, I did bring the block back from the machine shop though and I reinstalled the crank.

I went ahead and put the pistons together, same con rods with new pistons, rings, pin and big end bearings.

I had the machine guy press in the new pin bearings since they have to be pressed in and then machined to size, he did a great job fitting them, right at the tight end of spec (which is to the 10th of a thousandth. ;p)

Hope to have some news on a head today.

 

[Dougal]

How much would it be for an HD-T head, pistons, conrods and injectors?

 

[mudgudgeon]

How much would it be for an HD-T head, pistons, conrods and injectors?

Refurbed injectors are $800+ on exchange basis.
You would also need injection pump, $1200-$3000 depending on the serial number, also exchange.
You would also need to buy or make injector lines.

Nothing is cheap for them!

 

[Dougal]

You won't *need* the injection pump. The 1HZ pump puts out the same fuelling.

 

[gbentink]

You won't *need* the injection pump. The 1HZ pump puts out the same fuelling.

Actually, the 1HZ pump has a steeper timing ramp with rpm and is set around a 40 odd % lower inj cracking pressure. I would suggest you would be well served by using a 1HDT pump. Unless you rebuilt a late 1HZ pump to have fully operation timing control like the TD42Ti and custom time it, then you could, but its still only a 10mm head and doesnt have the optimum inj rate....

 

[mudgudgeon]

You won't *need* the injection pump. The 1HZ pump puts out the same fuelling.

I disagree. There are significant differences. I fitted a 1hzzzzz pump to a 1HD-T and it barely ran, certainly not driveable.


Edit: What he said! ^^^^

 

[Dougal]

I disagree. There are significant differences. I fitted a 1hzzzzz pump to a 1HD-T and it barely ran, certainly not driveable.


Edit: What he said! ^^^^

Timing is vastly different between IDI and DI. You won't get a good result at the IDI timing marks with a DI head.

But you can certainly make it work.

 

[kevinmrowland]

All that is besides the point in the specific case though since the answer to this:

How much would it be for an HD-T head, pistons, conrods and injectors?

Is: "much more than I have." ;p

I would need- head, injectors, lines, pump, (cam? timing gears?), pistons and con-rods.
Basically, almost everything other than the block and crank.

I like the HZ a lot, its pretty much perfect for us. When we first got it 7 years ago it was WAY overfueled, I think someone had been pushing it pretty hard. Hopefully we can get another 20 years or so out of it after all this.

 

[kevinmrowland]

I put the freeze plugs back in the block, yippee.

Still waiting to hear on a head though.

 

[OGBeno]

I put the freeze plugs back in the block, yippee.

Still waiting to hear on a head though.

Well at least you have head pics.

Going to machine shop tomorrow for check up.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Yup, the pictures look good at least, somehow it's not the same though....
Fingers crossed that one checks out ok under the magnet.

 

[kevinmrowland]

Some overdue updates.
It's been a slow process waiting on parts, waiting to be able to afford parts. Waiting on machining, waiting to be able to afford machining.... you get the picture.

By the end of last week things were finally lining up.
beno had sent me a new/used head, checked out fine at the machine shop they use and my guy said it was in good shape as well. (thanks beno!)

It was pretty cruddy though so we bead blasted it to get the grime and rust off. No heat checks in the casting anywhere, pre-cups looked about the same as the ones from the other head.

The machine guy did a really great job, and cared about his work. He tested all the springs and picked the strongest from the bunch, recession and protrusion on the valves were all balanced out, I gave him the numbers and needed adjustments from the last valve check and he kept track of how many ten thousandths he took off the valve seats and took the corresponding amount off the valve stem tips, plus the needed adjustments to get them at the top of spec. In the end I was able to pretty much just put all my valve shims right back in place, any adjustments I made were in the .001 range. He also took the valve spring shim seats from both heads and put them under the springs, since the valves were up a bit more for the cut, this made sure the spring rate stayed the same. Lots of other details like that, he was a real pleasure to work with, glad I found his shop.

Anyway, words are boring, progress pics since last weekend:



Pistons installed and checking the new protrusion.
I had gone ahead, and on the advice of several different sources, ordered the grade 5 head gasket. With the oversize pistons the compression ratio was up a tiny bit anyway so it seems to be safest to run the thickest head gasket. Past that, it turned out that new piston protrusion was right on for the #5 gasket anyway. (note: protrusion is measured on the front and back edge of piston, not the side as pic shows, I measured all around each piston just to double check, this was the spot I happened to photograph)

Timing and drive gear installation, it really is a brilliant motor to work on, really built for easy service work. Getting everything lined up and installed here is a breeze. Just pay attention to the marks and you are all set.

Cleaned up, pistons in, head gasket (and oil orifice) in place, ready to be sealed up.

The cleaned up head unwrapped and ready to set on.

I found the bolt tensioning order difficult to keep track of so I ran tape between the pairs and just painted by number.

Valve adjusting was fun, I like clean finicky jobs.

From there I just started to slap everything back in place, nice to get all this crap off the work bench.

Quickly turns into this:

And then by tuesday it was time to set back where it's supposed to be.

Last night I got things hooked up enough to test fire, bled the injector lines, turned over a few times with the fuel cut disconnected, I had already primed the oil pump since the HZ has a nifty oil pump fill port behind the alternator. Batteries were a bit low from sitting for months but with a bit of glow it fired up. there is no water or anything else hooked up so I just ran it at a fast idle to check for any conspicuous oil leaks. So far so good. Will get some coolant in there and get it warmed up.


It's full of break-in oil right now, the plan is to run that for no more than 15 minute at a fast idle in the shop, then road test up the hill outside the house. I'm not going to hammer the engine but it's my understanding that is important to be aggressive and make sure to build the combustion chamber pressure in order to get the rings slammed down where they need to be to seat in. The break-in oil will only be run for about an hour, then a drain and refill with high zinc dinosaur oil for the first oil change so that hopefully the rings will seat properly. I'll switch back to amsoil synthetic after that.


Hopefully I will have time to make her run tonight.