Advice before I start on the timing belt replacement job?

[Campfire]

Whoa! Don't know if I want in on the latter part of this, but on the original question...
Your going in that far, do everything that's included inside the front cover. Spend the extra $ and you won't be back in 12,000 miles replacing the water pump that started leaking coolant all over the belt. Take your time, RTFM (read the Factory Manual) and double check your timing marks. So, replace...
Timing Belt
Tensioner
waterpump\coolant (and check hoses while it's empty)
Thermostat
front crank seal and check the cam seals, if any leakage, replace them.
outer serpentine belt, you have to take it off anyway, then you'll have a spare.

Pick up some brake parts cleaner, and make sure the surface is CLEAN for the waterpump. And if some people actually read Pete's post, they would know he's already replaced the starter contacts. Way To Go
You've done that, now it's time to move up to T-belts. And save yourself $600 or so in labor.

 

[calamaridog]

Campfire,

When I do this recommended service in a few thousand miles, I'm planning on just replacing the coolant hoses too since they are so cheap. If the old ones are still servicable, they will be kept for spares.

I think Pete's (ppressle) original post was like 9 months ago and I'm fairly sure he already completed this work.

Rich (richg) was getting ready to do this so hopefully he will chime in and tell us how it went.

 

[Campfire]

I guess I need to watch the dates on the original posts. Just saw this one and thought the guy could use some encourging. This job can add up in a hurry, and we sometimes start cutting out the small stuff to save a few bucks. But if one "little" part fails down the road, it's another 8 hours of labor to tear everything back apart.
Just a thought. Been there, done that, got that t-shirt, and now use it as a grease rag.

 

[Toylexmods]

For the timing belt replacement, you'll need access to a hydraulic press to compress the belt tensioner for re-installation. You'll probably need to buy or make a crank shaft holding tool to hold the crank shaft pulley while the pulley bolt is loosened. This can be made from a piece of 1/8" thick steel 3.5" wide and 16" long. Verify the following dimensions. About 3" in from one end, cut out a slot 1.5" wide by 2" deep (1.5" of the original 3.5" will remain). On each side of the slot, a 1/2" away and a 1/2" up, drill a 5/16" hole. Insert a 8mm x 50mm bolt (thread 1.25mm) (M8x1.25x50mm) in each and screw into tapped holes in crank pulley. The slot will straddle the crank pulley bolt so a socket can be applied. Without a holding tool, an impact wrench might remove the crank shaft pulley bolt. I work real slow and spent 8 hours for disassembly and 8 hours the following day for assembly. I did a lot of wiping and cleaning and looking around. Hang a 4 ft shop light under the hood so you can see what you're doing. I didn't change the water pump but did flush out the radiator since it was removed to access the timing belt. The FSM says to completely remove the alternator but you can remove the two mounting bolts (14mm socket on long extension) and let it hang. I didn't remove the cam shaft pulleys or idler pulleys as the FSM states in Step 20 & 28 respectfully but did remove the power steering pump pulley. Once the new timing belt is on and tensioned, be sure the three pulley marks line up. Since the belt is installed with crank at 50 degrees ATDC, the marks on the belt won't line up at zero degrees (TDC). Besides the new timing belt and anti-freeze, nothing else is needed. If the rubber boot that fits on top of the tensioner is available, I'd get one becuae the orignal might be cracked or torn. You could probably do this job with Chilton manual 68604 covering 1997-00 pickups and LC's sold on Amazon.com for around $20 but the FSM's are a good investment if you do your own work. Even the FSM only gives general directions, not detailed step by step "cookbook" directions.

Or, for the crankshaft pulley bolt.....you could use a breaker bar and the starter like the Toyota master tech's do. 2 minutes topps

 

[richg]

I had a few hours to work on it yesterday, so tore everything down. Will put it back together later this week. Definitely not one of the easier motors I've done t-belts on thus far. Didn't follow the FSM perfectly for a couple steps. After I finish, I'll add in a little writeup to hopefully save some future members some time.

Other than the t-belt, I am replacing the water pump, main upper / lower radiator hoses, t-stat, cam and crank seals, tensioner, tensioner pulleys. So far, everything in there looks great. No leaks from anything, and the timing belt likely could have gone a good deal longer. There was alot of rubber "dust" from the t-belt everywhere, but the condition of the belt itself is really good. This motor has 110K on it, and has never been touched. I'm replacing everything as I don't want to touch anything for another 100K.

As for my original question about the 50 ATDC -- there is actually TWO sets of marks for the crank and cams. So based upon that, I would recommend following what the factory manual states. I was unaware that there was two sets of marks as the FSM tells you to mark the belt and pulleys, so I was under the assumption that there wasn't a set of marks for 50 ATDC, as well as at TDC.

Oh and BTW pigeon, STFU. Its clear you have no clue what you are talking about.

rich

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I had a few hours to work on it yesterday, so tore everything down. Will put it back together later this week. Definitely not one of the easier motors I've done t-belts on thus far. Didn't follow the FSM perfectly for a couple steps. After I finish, I'll add in a little writeup to hopefully save some future members some time.

Other than the t-belt, I am replacing the water pump, main upper / lower radiator hoses, t-stat, cam and crank seals, tensioner, tensioner pulleys. So far, everything in there looks great. No leaks from anything, and the timing belt likely could have gone a good deal longer. There was alot of rubber "dust" from the t-belt everywhere, but the condition of the belt itself is really good. This motor has 110K on it, and has never been touched. I'm replacing everything as I don't want to touch anything for another 100K.

As for my original question about the 50 ATDC -- there is actually TWO sets of marks for the crank and cams. So based upon that, I would recommend following what the factory manual states. I was unaware that there was two sets of marks as the FSM tells you to mark the belt and pulleys, so I was under the assumption that there wasn't a set of marks for 50 ATDC, as well as at TDC.

Oh and BTW pigeon, STFU. Its clear you have no clue what you are talking about.

rich

rich, Can you post pictures of the old belt showing its condition?

Has anyone ever known of a belt breaking and at what mileage?

 

[richg]

I can try, but don't count on it . Basically, the belt didn't show any signs of cracking at all. I folded it over onto itself backwards so as to separate the teeth as much as possible. A dry/worn belt will start to separate/crack when you do this. This belt didn't do that at all which was very surprising. Again, there was a good deal of rubber "dust" along the cam gears, etc, so material had been rubbed off the belt over the years.

Basically, I would take this as, if you're at the 90K mark, I wouldn't worry about it too much whether you don't get to the belt in the next 5K or so for the swap. I would not say however that "you can go 150K before changing the belt." Thats just stupid.

rich

 

[tabraha]

Rich I see you saw the second set of marks. That is exactly what I was gonna tell you. When I was changing starter contacts I was just studying the engine, monkeying around and noticed the second set. At the time I didn't really put it together why it was there but that makes sense now.

 

[SWUtah]

I changed the belt on my 99 at 58K miles since it was over 6 years old and spent its life in Arizonia in the dry heat. The belt had a lot of cracks and the water pump was seeping. Glad I changed it along with the water pump and all the other stuff. I think you need to go by both mileage and time. Follow all Toyotas recommendations and all should go well. I doubt my belt would of made it to 90K miles since that would of taken another 3-4 years.

 

[jp213a]

rich, Can you post pictures of the old belt showing its condition?

Has anyone ever known of a belt breaking and at what mileage?

There is a post from 4-6-05 titled "Pictures of 197k mile timing belt" (it's on page 32). This is the longest running timing belt I've seen reported on this forum. From this history, the safety factor is over 2x. My timing belt looked almost new at 110K miles. It could of easily gone to 125k miles. I haven't see any reports of a broken timing belt.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

There is a post from 4-6-05 titled "Pictures of 197k mile timing belt" (it's on page 32). This is the longest running timing belt I've seen reported on this forum. From this history, the safety factor is over 2x. My timing belt looked almost new at 110K miles. It could of easily gone to 125k miles. I haven't see any reports of a broken timing belt.

Thanks

Here is the link if anyone else is interested in viewing it

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=40672&highlight=Pictures+197k+mile+timing+belt

 

[richg]

Finished up everything yesterday. I'd definitely set aside two days for the job if you are replacing everything like I did and its your first time doing it.

Some general observations:

-Even though I had no evidence the water pump was leaking, it was in fact, leaking. Not until I pulled it off could I see the built-up residue of coolant coming out the weep hole. Some slight play in the bearing as well compared to the new one. Definitely replace the pump if you are doing a t-belt.
-Both timing pulleys and the tensioner appeared in good shape, I installed new ones anyways. Cheap insurance IMO.
-Impact gun knocked the crank pulley bolt loose no problem (as well as the cam gear bolts, but you would not need to loosen those unless you are doing cam seals). Needed a gear puller to get the crank pulley off the crank snout.
-No seals were leaking, but I replaced the front crank and cam seals anyways. If I was doing it over again, I'd likely only do the front crank seal as the cam seals were bit of a pain and I haven't read any reports of them leaking.

Some tips:

-Radiator does not need to be removed, only the shroud from it. There is plenty of room to work with the radiator still in place. Recommend putting a piece of cardboard over it just as a precaution so you don't stab it with a tool while working.
-A/C compressor does not need to be removed. Just the two bolts that bolt the compressor to the fan bracket (two most forward bolts). After that, can bend away a metal tab and remove the connector on the compressor to slide the fan bracket out.
-Alternator does not need to be disconnected electrically. Just unbolt it, and give the electrical connections some slack by unhooking the wires from the cable clamps. P/S pulley does need to be removed to slide alternator off.
-DO put the motor at 50 ATDC like described in the FSM. You won't be able to set the cams at TDC with the belt off, too much valvespring force on the cams, causing them to rotate.
-New toyota timing belt for the LC comes marked! Makes it super easy to string it. However, I don't recommend stringing the t-belt like the FSM prescribes. Instead, I recommend stringing the whole belt before putting the cover and crank pulley back on. Easiest way I found would be to put the belt on the left cam gear first, and clamp it in place. String it down over the idler, to the crank gear. Verify the timing marks line up on the belt to the crank gear, then string it up to the right cam gear (make sure the belt is fully seated on the water pump before putting it on the cam gear--clamp it in place on the right cam gear now as well). Once the belt is fully strung and all marks line up, THEN install the tensioner and pull the pin. Then put the cover and crank pulley back on, spin the motor a few times to verify all is well.

Hope this helps someone.

rich

 

[ppressle]

I think Pete's (ppressle) original post was like 9 months ago and I'm fairly sure he already completed this work.
.

LOL, I wish it was completed. I do finally have ALL the parts sitting the garage though. (Thanks Dan) Only a year so far. Luckily the beast doesn't get too many miles.

Thanks for all the advice, it seems that a number of folks have added to the thread in the interim. See how much good stuff comes to those that wait!

Hopefully I'll have some pictures to share soon.
Pete

 

[tabraha]

Good job Rich. That's some impressive tech in only 9 posts!!!

Pete, best of luck man and take those pics!!!

 

[rockclmbr]

Pete, if you don't mind posting the region you live in, it would give a good idea if the warmer or colder climates induce stress on the T-belt. Since yours was "new" looking even after 110k it would be a good gauge for us living in the moderate temperature zones. I would like to postpone this task as much as possible

 

[ppressle]

No problem. I am in the San Francisco bay area. I hope mine will be new looking when it gets removed. Haven't gotten in there yet though.

Is it obvious that I am a procrastinator???

 

[jp213a]

I hope mine will be new looking when it gets removed. Haven't gotten in there yet though. Is it obvious that I am a procrastinator???

The timing belt can be inspected by removing the V-bank engine cover, intake pipe/box running between the air filter and throttle body, and then the passenger side timing belt cover (that's the passenger side for left hand drive). Bump the starter a few times to inspect the entire belt. With 30 minutes of work, an educated decision can be made on pushing the timing belt beyond 90,000 miles.

 

[ppressle]

Phew. Timing belt and water pump are now replaced and I should be good for another 90k. It took me about the same 16h to do this little job. I took pictures, but I have not checked to see if they are usable yet. I built the tool that jp recommended. Definitely needed it to break the hub bolt free.

The timing belt looked a bit rough, but looked like it would go another 30k. I'll put a picture up. The mileage was 112k when I swapped it. Water pump was leaking rather significantly from the week hole. Quite a bit of crud built up there.

I am really amazed with how deep into the engine the water pump is. Is it more reliable there? Seems a bit difficult to access for servicing..

unedited install pics...

Pete (The procrastinator. )

 

[Tinkerer]

Longest Forum Thread Award of 2005-6 Goes To: Timing Belt Job.

LOL.

I did my '99 LX470 Timing Belt last week. Observations:

OEM Service Manual was useful, but a few errors:

1. You can't remove the Fan first, before removing the Shroud + Radiator Assy. You must remove the Fan + Shroud together from the engine bay, first. (Clearance issue)

2. No need to remove the Cam Pulleys or Crank Timing Belt Gear. (Why the heck did they instruct to remove those?)

Other:

3. I used a $2 elastomer band clamp wrench to hold the fan pulley while loosening the fan-to-pulley bolts. This is the same type thingy sold as a jar lid opener in some stores, although this version was sold by Harbor Freight. (The Serpentine belt is too loose to hold the pulley by itself during bolt loosening. The OEM Service Manual missed this one.)

4. Used an air impact wrench to loosen and later torque the Crank Pulley bolt.

I actually called Toyota to price the SST specified for holding the Crank while loosening this bolt. They never found it, but another cheaper-looking SST (Adjustable Hinge Pin Tool) specified for holding the Cam Pulleys was over $400, so I laughed at them and said "no thanks" to the Crank Pulley SST, since it would surely cost even more!

I also heard from a couple of mechanics about the starter & breaker bar trick, but I don't want to chance ragging the starter/pinion & flywheel ring gear by the sharp impact of breaking 200 ft-lb nut loose. (Remember: If a mechanic abuses something on a customer's car a little bit, it's no problem for him personally, as long as the car doesn't show symptoms for a year or so at least.) Plus, with the starter trick - how do you torque the nut when reassembling ???

The only drawback to the air impact wrench is that you must estimate the torque when retightening. Not for the faint of heart. (I once stripped a flywheel gland nut & crank thread assy rated at 225 ft-lb, with a plain generic 1/2" impact wrench. Yes, they will do it if you're not careful. But Toyota generally uses very good quality steel, good threads, and conservative torque specs, so the Crank Pulley Bolt will probably take significantly more than the spec 181ft-lb without much fuss.)

5. The Timing Belt Tensioner:

I ended up "walking" the Tensioner back up into its home with its own mounting bolts. In effect, using the mounting bolts themselves to slowly walk the Tensioner back into place, thus compressing the Tensioner piston back into the Tensioner, as it works its way back to home mounted position.

Caveat: Be sure to alternate small turns between each bolt, and go slowly with this. Once several threads are engaged, there should be (barely) enough engaged female thread area and housing material volume to provide enough strength to withstand the bolt tension forces, which peak at up to about 1000lb each, at full piston compression. But keep the forces balanced between the 2 bolts! and walk them up slowly. By the time the bolt-to-thread forces are becoming large (as the unit nears home position), there are enough engaged threads to withstand without stripping.

Pricing:

Funny, the local Lexus Dealer quoted $1300 for the job, but the local Toyota Dealer quoted around $600. An error, perhaps?

Other:

Didn't replace anything other than the Timing Belt & Serpentine Belt. The pulleys seemed fine, although the Serpentine Belt Tensioner and Fan Bracket Pulley bearings were not exactly silent - but new ones might be just a noisy, who knows? And the Crank Seal looked brand new, zero leakage. As for the Water Pump - I'm guessing that the combination of Toyota design/build for the application (high radial load of Timing Belt), plus the every 30k miles coolant replacement including distilled water, should enable the Water Pump to last a while longer.

Have fun!

 

[Tinkerer]

Oops - editing snafu.