Additional Fuel tank worth the effort...

[PEOPLES]

Boa tarde,

I own a '89 Toyota Bandeirante (short frame) with the original tank under the passenger seat. I already changed the original tank with 48Liters to a 53Liter version (plastic). This gives me now a range of 400-500km depending on the environment/speed.

There is a additional fuel tank avail here in Brazil, which will be installed behind the rear diff, where usually the spare wheel was located. This would give another 80Liter.

I now put down all the costs and wondering, if I really need it, or if a bunch of spare canister (which I have) would do it. I hardly go long range and if I do, there are enough gas stations in between. I also carry a 20Liter spare on the sparewheel-carrier and load another 20Liter in the trunk. I'm using those, but mostly to avoid refueling on the highway or remote gas stations, where fuel is more expensive.
So far I'm not missing anything.

I'm thinking about a long tour (5000-7000km) over 2-3 weeks and thought it might be comfortable of having more fuel loaded. (And using the "lost space" under the car)

I guess, the costs (compared to US) are affordable, still it's money:
- rerouting the exhaust system 300USD
- fueltank around 200USD
- pumps, valves, lines, etc. 150USD-200 USD
- maybe reinforcing the leaf springs

Another thing is: I don't want to cut a hole into the cabin, so I would need to install a system, that refuels the aux tank with a fuel pump during normal refueling. That means, that will take a bit more time during refueling.
I struggle a bit with the decision, if it's basically worth avoiding the fuel stops every 400-500km and doing it "manually".

So I it would be great if some of you guys could give me some thoughts about that. Thanks a lot

 

[charliemeyer007]

Back in the 80's I put in a 12.5 gallon tank from a Datsun b210 behind the rear axle in my 72/40. I built a bracket for the manual tank selector valve and mounted it under the seat behind the shift lever. I can easily reach down and change tanks as soon as she barks - No Fuel. I kludged in a switch for the gas gauge so I could read either tank. I got the aux tank to read E - which was empty to 1/2 which was actually full by careful choice of some low ohm 2% resistors added to the wire going to the tanks sender. With 30 gallons on tap I was way tired of driving. Getting the rig going again after sitting for nearly 15 years - I pulled the tank because it developed a small leak. Not sure if I'll fix it or maybe make a new tank out of stainless steel.

My selector valve also has a 3rd port - I was going to use it with a quick disconnect to a tank(s) in the pickup bed trailer, perhaps 20 or 30 more gallons of gas.

 

[peesalot]

Charlie, you got any pics, I am linking the rear of 40 and need to take the ole NWMP aux tank out to clear diff uptravel, may modify like Schull did but would rather just install something that will work. Was the Datsun tank a wierd shape ? did the pick up lose suction when wheeling ?

 

[peesalot]

To the OP, have you seen the long range tanks made is Aus IIRC ? they go under both pass & driver seat, crazy big capacity.

 

[charliemeyer007]

I might have some real pictures (film type) somewhere, no clue where those would be If I even still have them. More or less a rectangular box - fit nicely in the space available. I hung it with 2 2" wide steel banding straps in bicycle tubes. There was a chunk of thick rubber on each side between the tank flange and a diagonal frame support member to keep them from rubbing. I put the fill port on the passenger side same as the main tank. It was way easier to fuel up the rear tank if I drove the passenger tire up on a 2x4 so gas easily went down hill to the tank. Oh and I added a nylon seat belt strap across the tank as an extra hold the tank in place strap in case one of the steel bands rusted or metal fatigue failed.

 

[peesalot]

Did it offer more clearance on the diff than the common rear aux tanks do ?

 

[charliemeyer007]

I never worried that the differential would hit it by moving up. The tank stuck down from the frame to maybe mid diff at lowest - I never had the tank drag but I think my late BIL did back the rig into the steep bank and dented the tank (causing the leak). Maybe on a really steep side hill (like you would be worried about rolling) it might not get the last of the fuel. Normally driving down the road the engine would "BARK" alerting me it was going to run out of gas - I'd just reach down turn the fuel valve and continue on my way.

 

[bikersmurf]

I like having the rear tank... that said it only cost me less than $100 for a used one, the selector switch was $20, and extra fuel line was about $20. My exhaust was already clear, and my spare came mounted on the back.

I really like not having to carry extra cans (ever) and being able to wait out fluctuations in gas prices... and buying gas in areas that are significantly better priced.

I don't know that the above reasons are worth $700 USD to me. That said, I have heard of accidents causing fatalities with bumper mounted Fuel cans, so I wouldn't carry fuel there... and carrying a fuel can inside has it's own downsides.

 

[PEOPLES]

To the OP, have you seen the long range tanks made is Aus IIRC ? they go under both pass & driver seat, crazy big capacity.

I did, but I doubt that I get those down here and the cabin of the Band differs a bit. Even the pre '93 to the post '93 version differs, which makes it hard to install the standard '93-'01 tank as additional fuel tank. That one is original under the cabin between the transfer case and the rear diff.

My Exhaust System is "blocking" down there a lot, since it was a 3"-retrofit made of inox after I installed a turbo.


The question for me is "just", if the additional comfort of just flipping switches and getting double the range is worth the minimum 700 USD. So I thought maybe some others already did it and have a opinion, whether they use the tank "everyday" or maybe it turned out, that they never really need the additional fuel capacity.

The location should be fairly "safe". I don't crawl with the truck, so I don't get into trouble with the clearance (I guess).

BTW: I don't have limitations regarding the maximum fuel loaded in canister or something.

 

[45Dougal]

I have an aluminium tank under both front seats which was made locally to fit the space in my 77 HJ45.
If you want easy volume then I can recommend that.
Mines about 120L I guess. If you can lift your seat by a few cm then you can get a bit more.
If you do go this route then get plenty of baffles welded inside to stop the fuel sloshing around, and cover it in carpet to make it quiet.

 

[ducktapeguy]

IMO, the extra tank is worth it. Mine came with the 40 when I bought it, but I did have to do some work to get it installed correctly. The comfort of having the extra capacity when the fuel level drops below 1/4 tank, and the convenience of just flipping a switch while driving has really spoiled me. I don't want to have to stop, get out the jerry cans, siphon the gas, restrap the jerry cans, and then deal with the inevitable gas smell that gets on me. After using for over a decade, I would definitely say it's worth the $700 for me. If something were to happen to mine I wouldn't hesitate to replace it.

Aside from cost, it's really the best option for carrying extra fuel. You can carry extra cans inside, but I never felt comfortable with a jerry can inside the cabin even though the stock tank is inside. Did it a couple times and really didn't like the hassle. Plus it uses valuable cargo space. To carry it outside, a decent spare tire carrier weighs more and costs a lot more than a spare fuel tank.

I also didn't like the aux fuel filler location so I do have mine plumbed in with an electric fuel pump to transfer from the main tank. I posted about it here.

Auxiliary Fuel tank filler neck alternative

It does take a while to refill the tank this way but it's never been an issue. I can start the fuel transfer from the main tank before I get to a gas station so the main tank is ready to be refueled by the time I get there. If I've just come out of the desert and both tanks are empty, I am usually stopping long enough to have time to transfer and refuel twice. I actually don't know how long it takes to transfer a full tank because I've never had to wait for it, it's usually being done in the background while I'm doing other things.

However, if you haven't felt the need for one and you don't already have it, then just go without it until you need it.

 

[PEOPLES]

Thanks a lot. What you did is exactly what I have in mind. And thanks a lot for your opinion in that case.
The convenience-part is triggering me a bit and also the additional space in the cabin, since I have only the short version with almost no trunk. Funny fact: I have 6 seats and a load capacity of 1.1t in the papers. Don't ask me where it comes from or where to put all the passengers/cargo.
Just the part with the exhaust system rerouting is a bit annoying for me, I think I need to have another look into this.


Maybe you have some more pictures of your installation you could share? Also from the fuel tank in general?

If I understood correctly, your little fuel pump gets the fuel (diesel?) out of the original suction line for the engine? I thought about that setup and I'm a bit afraid, that the engine is not getting enough fuel (during transfer) if I install a bigger pump.
I'm considering a second suction port within the main tank.

And you have a 6/2 way valve installed, right? So you switch both lines to the engine (suction and return) from main to aux?

Thanks a lot

 

[ducktapeguy]

I fixed the link in the above post, there are a couple of pictures but nothing recent. It's a little different than what is shown in that thread. I have the 6 port fuel switch mounted on the battery tray bracket so I mounted the fuel pump and T's under the battery tray because all the fuel lines congregate there. It's a bit cramped trying to fit everything there but I didn't like having a bunch of fuel lines running under the body.

I had a sketch of how it was connected but I don't remember where I saved it.

I think this is how I set it up. next time I climb under the 40 I'll verify.

1. Fuel pickup from the main tank is T'd off into an electric fuel pump. The output from the pump T's into the return line of the aux tank. I added a solenoid valve right before the electric fuel pump to prevent siphoning when the pump is off.
2. Vent line from the Aux tank connects to the vent line from the main tank. This prevents overpressuring or vacuum in the aux tank. Without tying in the vent lines I had problems with fuel starvation during long drives, or fuel spitting back out the filler cap on hot days.
3. I used a low pressure fuel pump to transfer for a couple reasons. One, it's a backup to the main mechanical pump so I can run directly to the gas carb without a regulator. Two, the transfer rate is slow enough that I don't have to worry about it pulling too much fuel and starving the engine while driving. So far no issues transferring and running the engine at the same time.
4. I might have ran an extra line from the aux tank vent into the fuel filler inlet. In case the aux tank is full when I transfer, the overflow just dumps right back into the main tank so there's no chance of the aux tank over pressurizing.

 

[77mustard40]

I had a ‘76 in my younger days, the PO had installed rear tank between the frame rails. The fuel filler was on top of the tank and the rig had a trap door that had been installed by cutting an opening through the tub near the PS rear ambulance door. At first I wasn’t crazy about the filler location but it grew on me.

Plumbing was a mess and the tank switch wasn’t alway dependable, I’d vapor lock running the rear in hot weather. I ended up running an electric pump the transfer gas to the main tank using a dash toggle switch, it was pretty great to refill your main tank as you rolled down the highway.

I bought an old Con-Fer tank from a friend a couple years back and may do a similar install on the Iron Horse.

 

[Mike Shull]

I’ve downsized my fuel capacity from 33 gallons to 27 gallons, which should get me similar range to what you are going for. (22 in the tank and 5 more on the tire carrier).

If you have the stock axle setup in the rear then you might also consider a late 80’s or early 90’s S10 tank (either in front or behind the axle) You can pick them up new for around $80. I had the 20 gallon version successful mounted in mine but I had to scrap it due to clearance issues with my new axle setup.

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

 

[charliemeyer007]

This is my B210 tank 30W 16L 11D