A Word of Warning to all 200 series Owners! Please Read!

[arbforlc200]

I posted my response in the wrong thread....

Agreeing or not agreeing is not the issue here. What's unbelievable is the rationale put forth by some. How can this become a Toyota bashing? I drive a LC200, my wife drives a Lexus LS 460 which is another Toyota product and I bashed Toyota? And BTW, I am also a small business owner that is subject to the same rules and regulations of this country.

Does any one understand the difference between latent defect and patent defect? Most folks paid authorized dealers to perfom work and expect quality, safety and reliabilty to be the outcome of this process. What I don't need to do is to crawl underneath my LC 200 and re-inspect what my dealer had done. And even if I wanted to do so, what the !#@# am I looking for? So when either life, limb and/or pecuniary loss occurrs, sometime the only remdedy is to seek equity in the court system.

As for adding hardware onto your LC .... it's great if you at least try to understand the modes and effects on your LC prior to adding these after market hardware. Otherwise, just slapping them on does not impress me one bit. I have been there done that as a teenager. Now I expected that we have some how evolved more sophisticated than this.

 

[chimyz]

I had some suspension work done on the LC at an un-named toyota dealership here in Calgary, in the COUNTRY HILLS area (I'm still not telling which dealership though).

After driving 2500 miles accross country, and noticing there was some shimmy and extra noise, I started poking around the bottom of the vehicle. It appears they did not put a bolt back in that connects one of the links (something to stabalize lateral movement).

I thought it would be easy enough to pull into a dealership half way accross the country and have them order up the bolt...well to my surprise...2 month back order on the bolt, but the nut would only be 2 days and washer the next day.

I proceeded to call that dealership in Calgary and ask if they had it kicking around...nothing, and they knew nothing about it, but were willing to order the $30 special item for me.

This is just another example of how customer service, care and attention at the automotive dealerships have driven them into a desperate plea for billions to save their a$$e$. I think screw it!!! They need to learn a harsh lesson and re-invent or suffer.

I too am a small business owner, and have never even borrowed from a bank to get the business going. Care, attention and customer service is all I have over the next guy.

To sum up...F&^% Toyota and their dealerships, call me a Toyota basher if you want...they don't care, about me or you! All they care about is lining their own pockets. If the Federal Government wasn't so messed up too, I would just build my own vehicle, it's really not that hard.

Hijack over....check your vehicle after you leave any service.

 

[arbforlc200]

Fyi...Toyota is'nt the one asking for a bail out. Unfortunately...it is the US auto makers that are asking.

You maybe the exception, but for me I do not have time to crawl underneath my LC to re-inspect a job that I paid authorized dealer to perform. My time is reseverd is to take care of my business.

 

[Jonty]

Fyi...Toyota is'nt the one asking for a bail out. Unfortunately...it is the US auto makers that are asking.

Toyota have laid off staff, cut production and asked for financial aid in Japan. No excuse for the mechanics not to do their job properly though.

 

[OGBeno]

In the end, another good "moral of the story" situation to reinforce my firm belief in working on your own vehicle.

That said, I think the new 200 series might be too computerized for most shade trees to work on them beyond just basic wrench turning.

-o-

 

[chimyz]

Fyi...Toyota is'nt the one asking for a bail out. Unfortunately...it is the US auto makers that are asking.

You maybe the exception, but for me I do not have time to crawl underneath my LC to re-inspect a job that I paid authorized dealer to perform. My time is reseverd is to take care of my business.

Toyota's credit rating just got knocked down...not sure if you heard that in the news? That is the beginning.

As for the exception, I had to crawl under the vehicle, being 2500 miles away from home and having my family with me, I did not want to loose any lives, and needed to find out the problem, to see if I could fix it until I got into a dealership.

The 5 minutes it took to inspect probably saved me minimum 2 hrs waiting at the dealership to redo a job that took them 5 hrs, or minimum 30 - 45 mins dropping it off and picking it up, that's not including calling in to book a time, and the 2 -3 days before I could get an appointment...you get my point about time.

Also...don't try and prove that your time is more valuable than others by saying you don't have time to inspect what someone has done to your car...in fact, you should be checking over your vehicle all the time, making sure it works correctly and safely.

The whole point of my friggen post was that you pay hundreds for some snot nosed, acne faced "tech" to perform work on a car at an "authorized dealer" and they DON'T!

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Look Sh#@t for brains...(we can all started talking gutter language if you want !) Yes my time is very important where I can earn money using by brains and my clients demanded that I give them sound advice for big bucks!. Paying for service at an authorized dealer is a drop in a bucket and they have done a wonderful job for me so far. No complaint.

You must look and sound like an idiot whenever you visit your dealer and that is probably why they treated you like a piece of old used up TP + taking adavantage of you . Whenever I bring mine in, I get a comparable loaner for free.

I am through with your dumb AS#@#!!

Wow! I thought the 100 section was tough, but the 200 section is something else!

Interesting thread to say the least, and nothing beats working on, and thus fully understanding your own truck. As Beno alludes to, that may not be possible with the multiple, overlapping, and high complexity systems of the 200 series. I personally think this is just the start, and modifying future Land Cruisers will simply not be possible.

For dtt-did you do a thread discussing the coilovers? Curious why you used them and what you were trying to fix?

Disclaimer-I do not own a 200, but my brother does. Nice trucks.

 

[dtt255]

Look Sh#@t for brains...(we can all started talking gutter language if you want !) Yes my time is very important where I can earn money using by brains and my clients demanded that I give them sound advice for big bucks!. Paying for service at an authorized dealer is a drop in a bucket and they have done a wonderful job for me so far. No complaint.

You must look and sound like an idiot whenever you visit your dealer and that is probably why they treated you like a piece of old used up TP + taking adavantage of you . Whenever I bring mine in, I get a comparable loaner for free.

I am through with your dumb AS#@#!!

Ok no need for the language. I don't mind a disagreement...but cursing and name calling is not needed. Please try and control it from this point forward.

Wow! I thought the 100 section was tough, but the 200 section is something else!

Interesting thread to say the least, and nothing beats working on, and thus fully understanding your own truck. As Beno alludes to, that may not be possible with the multiple, overlapping, and high complexity systems of the 200 series. I personally think this is just the start, and modifying future Land Cruisers will simply not be possible.

For dtt-did you do a thread discussing the coilovers? Curious why you used them and what you were trying to fix?

Disclaimer-I do not own a 200, but my brother does. Nice trucks.

I now understand the need / benefit of knowing how the systems work on my LC.

Well the LC came with coilovers to start so that is why I believe that Radflo made actual coilovers.

I know OME makes separate springs and shocks for the front. I know chimyz has them on the fronts. You might want to ask him in a new thread as to how he likes them and why he went to those form the radflo coilovers.

The computerized part of the truck is less intimating to me then the actual old school mechanicals

I got the rear OME springs and the new radflo shocks on the rear today. Gave me 2 3/4 inch life in the rear and then we raised the coilovers up for a 2 1/3 inch in the front.

WOW what a look and clearance difference. I am going to start a thread on it.

I am going to try and convince Chimyz to add his his info so we can compare.

 

[chimyz]

Look Sh#@t for brains...(we can all started talking gutter language if you want !) Yes my time is very important where I can earn money using by brains and my clients demanded that I give them sound advice for big bucks!. Paying for service at an authorized dealer is a drop in a bucket and they have done a wonderful job for me so far. No complaint.

You must look and sound like an idiot whenever you visit your dealer and that is probably why they treated you like a piece of old used up TP + taking adavantage of you . Whenever I bring mine in, I get a comparable loaner for free.

I am through with your dumb AS#@#!!

arbforlc...if the above was directed at me (and I'm assuming it is) thanks for the colourful language. Not sure why you brought the gutter talk into this, but that is lame...please read my original post, I didn't realize I used any gutter talk at all? I hope you don't talk to your mother the same way you talk to the rest of us.

Your comments were all uncalled for, simply written behind the safety of your computer in order to inflate your ego...I don't appreciate it, and I hope you have acheived the goal you needed and what you were looking for.

I'm glad you have a good working relationship with your dealership...that is very few and far between.

welcome to mud, and check the attitude at the door next time.

 

[arbforlc200]

perhaps my language was inapproriate for prime time and I had removed the content above. However, hiding behind a computer...is not my motto. It's o.k....you don't know me yet but hiding isn't me especially I have to be front and center in a public arena on a daily basis. If need be, I will provide you my full credentail if your request warrants.

I do check this board once in a while to learn about upgrades eventhough I am no hardcore offroaders like some folks here. I also admit that I do not work on cars anymore since it is getting more complicated and I like to spend time driving it to the slope. So I have to depend on the dealer to work on my rig....I hope you understand that. My hat off to you if you are able to perform all the fixing+maintenace of this complicated beast.

happy hollidays

 

[Atticus]

unbelievable! You both could have been killed needlessly! Need a lawyer?

Wow.

yes...Toyota as an entity can say that dtt has committed an intentional tort against its product i.e. the LC. However, when Mr. consumer visits his authorized dealer and he is willing to pay big bucks for expected work to be performed and the dealer is awared and willing to mods OEM hardware, and then it is not performed to SAFETY standards...it is called breach of contract. It gets even more sticky when someone died/injured when workmanship failed to perform as promised. In omnibus, no entiy can completely indemnify itself from loss or damage. So...beaware if you are also a second tier vendor/supplier.

Uh, excuse me?

Consumer Protection Law has come a long way and it is extremely nebulous and now it is considered an expertise field in itself. BTW, everyone will say now that a lawyer would be the last thing on his/her mind....until an injury or death occurs.....lawyers phone will be ringing off the hook. It's TRUE!

I was just raising awareness to everyone...both to consumers and distributors. I love the way your products look and from web reading....your reputation is solid. Perhaps I will be ordering a pair of sliders from you..but will not heavily mod my LC for simple reason that I stated earlier. More power to others who are willing to alter their vehicles.

lol...it's TRUE!

Does any one understand the difference between latent defect and patent defect? Most folks paid authorized dealers to perfom work and expect quality, safety and reliabilty to be the outcome of this process. What I don't need to do is to crawl underneath my LC 200 and re-inspect what my dealer had done. And even if I wanted to do so, what the !#@# am I looking for? So when either life, limb and/or pecuniary loss occurrs, sometime the only remdedy is to seek equity in the court system.

1. I do.
2. Are you an American? Do you practice law in America?

perhaps my language was inapproriate for prime time and I had removed the content above. However, hiding behind a computer...is not my motto. It's o.k....you don't know me yet but hiding isn't me especially I have to be front and center in a public arena on a daily basis. If need be, I will provide you my full credentail if your request warrants.

Are you a gladiator?

Anyway, arbforlc200 has some good points about the standard of care and being able to reliably trust that a Toyota dealership won't do something to your vehicle that could kill you, but I'd like to say two things:

1. Since nothing actually happened to you, you likely don't have a tort case against the dealership. Even if they were negligent, you have to have a duty, a breach of that duty, harm, and the breach has to be the proximate cause of that harm (aka "causation"). Anyway, there's no physical harm, so no negligence case. There may indeed be a breach of contract claim, but the damages for that would not likely be more than the time you lose and the amount someone else charges you to fix the problem. Not very much. As a general rule, if you're not harmed by something, no matter how pissed off you are, you're probably not going to get any money out of it.

2. As always, my usual disclaimer: if you need legal advice, see a lawyer who practices in the field you require in the jurisdiction where the incident occurred. If you listen to internet lawyers, especially those who don't really sound like they know what they are talking about, then you're asking for trouble.

Anyway, glad you've got the problem figured out. If it were me, I would go to the place where they worked on the kdss and skullfxxx the manager over something like this. Then I would document the entire thing and send a letter to Toyota explaining that you think it odd that a new suv would be equipped with a "feature" that could be so very dangerous. I mean, a brake light goes off when your brake fluid leaks out, and this seems almost as dangerous.

Good luck.

 

[arbforlc200]

i was just numbed regarding the rationale on this issue. of course most of my answers are shooting from the hip based on the chat boards. Like any chat forum, you can be verbally abused by any mental midget standing at about 5'9 with a pot belly who thinks he can whop your ***!

To your other questions...

yes

yes ...gladiator in a no holds barred...hahaha

 

[Atticus]

I was only asking because your reference to seeking equity made me think of more formalistic common law countries that distinguish between equity and law...and breach of contract is not a cause of action in equity.

 

[sdtash]

Tighten them 2 screws I'd say, and drive the thing. lifes to short....Enjoy.

 

[chimyz]

Tighten them 2 screws I'd say, and drive the thing. lifes to short....Enjoy.

Thank you... well said, I agree 100%!

 

[Zimm]

leaving a system inoperable, that is required to operate for the safe handling of a vehicle, is inexcusable on the part of the PAID modifier.

i dont care if 3% of your costs go to insurance. the fact of the matter is, this work isnt being done for altruistic reasons (merely a moral defense, nothing legal here), its done for a PROFIT. and if you are accepting money, you are morally obligated to do it right. if the insurance is going up, its because all too often the sharks are actually right, and hence they are swimming near the blood. if shops dont screw up, people dont die, and the lawyers will throw their s*** against a different wall.

i.e. i may hate attorneys, but excuses for failure dont make me warm and fuzzy either. i dont need to pay someone to ef a job up, i can handle that myself.

 

[007-FJC]

You found the problem, let the dealer know and forget about it if no harm was done. My $0.02 cents.

 

[mo.africa]

Can someone please describe the location of the 2 valves that were left open?

 

[chimyz]

Inside left framerail...half way between the wheels.

 

[mo.africa]

Thanks chimyz