A Home Survival Question

[turbocruiser]

Fine folks, I hope that this is actually appropriate for Outfitting but I have a home survival question - we have had the worst winter where I leave in long time and although we were not affected (yet, fingers fully crossed) I have heard that thousands are without power. My question is regarding regular gas furnaces - if power were out wouldn't our furnace also go out due to the pilot light requiring electric? If that is the case what would be the best way to keep the furnace going? IOW we have plenty of food, plenty of water, not having the hot water heater wouldn't be the end of existence (electric hot water heater) but the furnace could really cause all sorts of other problems. A friend told me that without electricity the pilot light wont stay on, the thermostat wont work, etc etc etc. Short of a generator assigned specifically to that, would would work to keep the furnace functioning. Sorry if this is not appropriate for Outfitting, Mods please feel free to move as needed. Thanks folks.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Fine folks, I hope that this is actually appropriate for Outfitting but I have a home survival question - we have had the worst winter where I leave in long time and although we were not affected (yet, fingers fully crossed) I have heard that thousands are without power. My question is regarding regular gas furnaces - if power were out wouldn't our furnace also go out due to the pilot light requiring electric? If that is the case what would be the best way to keep the furnace going? IOW we have plenty of food, plenty of water, not having the hot water heater wouldn't be the end of existence (electric hot water heater) but the furnace could really cause all sorts of other problems. A friend told me that without electricity the pilot light wont stay on, the thermostat wont work, etc etc etc. Short of a generator assigned specifically to that, would would work to keep the furnace functioning. Sorry if this is not appropriate for Outfitting, Mods please feel free to move as needed. Thanks folks.

You forgot the forced air fan. The thermo couple also requires electricity.

Without electricity your house central heater will not work, period. Even oil fired hot water systems rely on an electric pump to circulate water.

So you can either get a back up genset, properly wired into your electrical panel or rely on kerosene or propane heaters.

 

[RHINO]

pilot lights do stay on w/o electricity. the electricity involved in the gas only sends a signal to turn on the burners when the unit is about to come on. you can verify by unplugging your unit or cutting the breaker, you'll notice the pilot remains on. there is a safety built in though, if you look you'll see a small wire, most likely red from heat in the flame of the pilot. this needs the heat to keep the pilot circuit open so if the pilot goes out, the valve will close a minute later when the wire cools. the water heater and all other gas appliances with a pilot are the same.
what this means to your Q is upon blackout your unit will not heat the house but you can cuddle up to the pilot for warmth

 

[MrMoMo]

If you can determine the total load of the furnace, with the blower fan, and all the accessories, you might be able to size a small inverter to run it from a bank of batteries. - I can't see it using all that much power. Some inverters function as inverter/chargers. When the power is on they automatically are a battery charger, but if the power goes out, they automatically switch to invert mode, supplying power from the batteries they were charging.

Check out some of the higher end Xantrex inverters.

 

[SteveO]

Your pilot light will stay lit as it produces it's own voltage. It works as a flame sensor and safety device in the furnace. Even though your pilot light will stay on your main gas valve won't open to allow the furnace to kick in, nor will the fan work without power.

You pretty much have little choice but to get a generator in case of a power failure or in an extreme emergency (I did this once when I couldn't finish a job due to parts) you can run the furnace from an extension cord plugged in to an inverter in your car. Seems like a lot of work but when the house is starting to freeze it may be your best plan. ....Steve

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

pilot lights do stay on w/o electricity. the electricity involved in the gas only sends a signal to turn on the burners when the unit is about to come on. you can verify by unplugging your unit or cutting the breaker, you'll notice the pilot remains on. there is a safety built in though, if you look you'll see a small wire, most likely red from heat in the flame of the pilot. this needs the heat to keep the pilot circuit open so if the pilot goes out, the valve will close a minute later when the wire cools. the water heater and all other gas appliances with a pilot are the same.
what this means to your Q is upon blackout your unit will not heat the house but you can cuddle up to the pilot for warmth

Heaters have had pilotless ignition for years....

 

[rusty_tlc]

pilot lights do stay on w/o electricity. the electricity involved in the gas only sends a signal to turn on the burners when the unit is about to come on. you can verify by unplugging your unit or cutting the breaker, you'll notice the pilot remains on. there is a safety built in though, if you look you'll see a small wire, most likely red from heat in the flame of the pilot. this needs the heat to keep the pilot circuit open so if the pilot goes out, the valve will close a minute later when the wire cools. the water heater and all other gas appliances with a pilot are the same.
what this means to your Q is upon blackout your unit will not heat the house but you can cuddle up to the pilot for warmth

The gas to the pilot stays on if the thermocouple dosen't detect the heat from th pilot?????
I wa sunder the impression that without the feed back from the thermocouple the main valve would shut off.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Your pilot light will stay lit as it produces it's own voltage. It works as a flame sensor and safety device in the furnace. Even though your pilot light will stay on your main gas valve won't open to allow the furnace to kick in, nor will the fan work without power.

You pretty much have little choice but to get a generator in case of a power failure or in an extreme emergency (I did this once when I couldn't finish a job due to parts) you can run the furnace from an extension cord plugged in to an inverter in your car. Seems like a lot of work but when the house is starting to freeze it may be your best plan. ....Steve

I get it.

 

[SteveO]

I get it.

I wasn't trying to beat a dead horse, I opened the thread and started my reply before anyone posted after you. I wan't trying to take the last spot on the band wagon although furnaces are my thing. I'm an electrician and teach a course on troubleshooting and repairing them. ...Steve

 

[turbocruiser]

Thanks fellas for the input. SteveO I was gonna ask about why you moved to Canada, and gave up gig at Man-A-Fre then realized you are SteveO and not Steve-O !!! A fair warning: yer gonna get alota strange requests for landcruiser parts with that username!

 

[SteveO]

Thanks fellas for the input. SteveO I was gonna ask about why you moved to Canada, and gave up gig at Man-A-Fre then realized you are SteveO and not Steve-O !!! A fair warning: yer gonna get alota strange requests for landcruiser parts with that username!

I've been here nearly a year and I think I've only got about 3 misdirected PM's so that's not too bad. I'd change my name but it's my name in life and on any of the forums I visit so I like to keep it simple. Good luck with the furnace and if you have any more questions let me know. ...Steve

 

[jonb96150]

It depends on your furnace. If you have an older style wall furnace, it does not need power to function. Well, I have to qualify that. Most of the wall furnaces here at Lake Tahoe do not need power in order for the heater to function. Most of the ones with a blower attachment will still operate the burner, but the blower will not run. The thermostat will still control the heater as it is millivolts generated by the heater itself independent of commercial power.

These are not to be confused with a forced air system which blows heated air via ducting through the house that need a.c. power in order to work. These are old fashioned wall heaters which do not require anything but propane or natural gas to work. There are still some old school guys that like to be able to heat their house when the power is out. I do most of my heating with wood and the house is warm with or without ac power.

 

[SteveO]

It depends on your furnace. If you have an older style wall furnace, it does not need power to function. Well, I have to qualify that. Most of the wall furnaces here at Lake Tahoe do not need power in order for the heater to function. Most of the ones with a blower attachment will still operate the burner, but the blower will not run. The thermostat will still control the heater as it is millivolts generated by the heater itself independent of commercial power.

These are not to be confused with a forced air system which blows heated air via ducting through the house that need a.c. power in order to work. These are old fashioned wall heaters which do not require anything but propane or natural gas to work. There are still some old school guys that like to be able to heat their house when the power is out. I do most of my heating with wood and the house is warm with or without ac power.

Older homes around here and in rural areas still have these old furnaces as well. They have a thermopile which produces a higher voltage instead of a thermocouple. The thermopile will provide enough energy to operate both the pilot valve (which the thermocouple normally does) and the main valve which in most furnaces is powered from the transformer. These furnaces use a similar gas valve as a gas water heater and most rely on the idea of heat rising to warm the house and work great without power. ...Steve

 

[firetruck41]

No pilot light on my gas furnace, it has electronic ignition. Do you have a "real" fireplace? That could be a back up heat source for ya.

 

[BC_FJC]

I went 6 days without power earlier this winter and my gas fireplace and hot water heater worked but my electronic ignition furnace was worthless without power...

The fireplace was able to keep it nice and worm on the main floor.

 

[spotcruiser]

I run my forced-air gas furnace with my generator during power outages. It's nice because it heats the whole house, not just rooms near the fireplace. The generator also supplies enough power to watch TV, have some light, run the fridge and freezer, use the microwave, etc. The only function that really matters, though, for the safety/comfort of the family and to keep pipes from freezing, is the furnace.

 

[turbocruiser]

I run my forced-air gas furnace with my generator during power outages. It's nice because it heats the whole house, not just rooms near the fireplace. The generator also supplies enough power to watch TV, have some light, run the fridge and freezer, use the microwave, etc. The only function that really matters, though, for the safety/comfort of the family and to keep pipes from freezing, is the furnace.

Spotcruiser, would you mind sharing some specs on your generator - how many watts, whatcha did to connect that to the house, etc. I guess I'm in the market after hearing these things. Thanks.

 

[spotcruiser]

I have a 5000W Generac that I bought about 17 years ago. When I built my garage back then, I installed an outdoor 50A receptacle and set up my service panel and breakers so that I can run my whole house with the generator. My generator is not large enough to power every load in the house (I still have electric W/H, stove, clothes dryer) so I strip those loads prior to firing up the gen.

The Generac is plenty reliable, but it's a noisy SOB. There are quieter gens out there, Hondas especially, but you pay for the quiet.

If you're going to get a generator, the best way to set it up is with a Gen-Tran panel (or similar) and outdoor connector (like in the links below). The transfer panel is an auxiliary load center with a manual bus transfer allowing you to switch between the utility power and the generator. Specific loads that you want during a power outage (furnace, kitchen circuits, fridge/freezer recept, and various lighting and receptacle circuits up to the capacity of the gen) are moved to the aux panel and only those loads are fed when you are on gen power. Ideally, you want to locate the receptacle/gen connector outside and under cover as the weather will most likely suck when you need the gen. If possible, you also want to locate the connector where your house/garage will shield you from as much generator noise as possible.

You don't want to be running the generator in an area that will let carbon monoxide build up (like in your garage). A bunch of people died up here in the NW this past couple of months from running generators or using combustion type heaters indoors during the power outages.

http://www.gen-tran.com/eshop/10Browse.asp?Category=MTS6-16

http://www.gen-tran.com/eshop/10Browse.asp?Category=PIB

HTH.

 

[turbocruiser]

Wow, thanks so much!

I've gottalotta reading to do tonight!

 

[Landpimp]

also got a Generac 5500, bets its 10 years old, damn thing ran 24 hours a day for 7 days........noisey(but I had it way out back) and fuel hungry, didn't care if 1 light was on or running at a full load..........still used 15gal in 24hours

If you have natural gas, this a a great option, but better yet are the units that run natural gas, propane and gasoline.......without changing anything(besides fuel source) So during a storm, run natural gas, but during an earthquake when the gas lines may be busted, run propane or gasoline. Nat gas or propane are alse better on the motors

oh word to the wise........dont check the oil on a gen when its runninng.......its not like a 2f motor.......

I have a 5000W Generac that I bought about 17 years ago.

The Generac is plenty reliable, but it's a noisy SOB. There are quieter gens out there, Hondas especially, but you pay for the quiet.



HTH.