91' 3FE Power Steering Pump fails....then what?

[mts2snd]

Previously posted in 3FE - but figure I should cast a wider net.
Hey all, I have been through all the threads (i think), and been around the web and the FSM. The 3FE OEM PSP is NLA. A rebuild kit only consists of O-rings, a seal, and clips. On mud I learned this PSP is "journal style". The re-manufactured ones available have mixed reviews. I think this is because they simply use the rebuild kits (only seals) and it is tough to replace the journal style part because it is part of the whole unit.

My PSP has a little play in the shaft, and a slow seepage around the front shaft / housing area. It will probably need to be replaced at some point. Does anyone have a long term solution to this? Is there another type of pump that is available that can be adapted (aftermarket has poor reviews)? Can it be sent it out someplace to do a proper rebuild? I have found nothing. Thanks in advance.

 

[Malleus]

FWIW, the term you've been given is "journal bearing" and this pump doesn't have one. It a simple roller bearing pressed onto a shaft and into a housing. Someone was trying to impress you with his knowledge. The area of a shaft which is supported by a bearing is known as the bearing journal, because this is where the load bears, not because a "journal bearing" goes there. Not every shaft mounted bearing is a journal bearing. Enough with the tech trivia...

There's nothing to rebuilding the pump, provided a) you can get the parts and b) you have the necessary tools:

I included the first page of the gearbox section, because you need the hose torque values.

 

[Malleus]

I just rebuilt my pump with a seal kit. The bearing, vanes and gear were fine, so I left them.

 

[Tools R Us]

Have resealed several of them with good results, don't recall ever replacing the bearing.

 

[Tools R Us]

The 3fe pump had a pulley that document shows a gear.

 

[mts2snd]

FWIW, the term you've been given is "journal bearing" and this pump doesn't have one. It a simple roller bearing pressed onto a shaft and into a housing. Someone was trying to impress you with his knowledge. The area of a shaft which is supported by a bearing is known as the bearing journal, because this is where the load bears, not because a "journal bearing" goes there. Not every shaft mounted bearing is a journal bearing. Enough with the tech trivia...

There's nothing to rebuilding the pump, provided a) you can get the parts and b) you have the necessary tools:
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I included the first page of the gearbox section, because you need the hose torque values.

Well, that is one of the happiest mistakes I could have made.

My FSM diagrams look a little different and does not show a bearing, it's a US market FSM for a 1992 80' with the 3FE, i thought it was the same as the 91'. "bearing journal"..noob mistake. However, my PSP is belt driven and on a 3FE powered 91' fj80. don't have my FSM in front of me...but it IIRC it looks significantly different. Hmm.

 

[mts2snd]

Have resealed several of them with good results, don't recall ever replacing the bearing.

So you were able to just do the seals, o-rings and such without replacing bearing or whatever is in there that allows the shaft to spin freely on the part that acts like a bearing? The Gates rebuild kit I have and the toyota ones I have seen only contain those types of parts. no bearing...

 

[Tools R Us]

So you were able to just do the seals, o-rings and such without replacing bearing or whatever is in there that allows the shaft to spin freely on the part that acts like a bearing? The Gates rebuild kit I have and the toyota ones I have seen only contain those types of parts. no bearing...

Used the Gates/Edelmann kit, same thing, shop by price. They look like this inside, The bearing has been good in the ones that we have done, if you want to replace it, they are a commonly available bearing number.

 

[Malleus]

The 3fe pump had a pulley that document shows a gear.

EDIT: I have to trash that manual; it's a diesel.

Well, that's odd...I grabbed it from the '90 FSM.

 

[mts2snd]

Cool, thank you. My Gates rebuild kit is a different number but if that is what this odd ball pump looks like, then I should be good. The shaft has a little play, and slight seep where the shaft enters the housing in the front. I'd just hate to get it apart to find out it can not be fixed. I appreciate the pictures, not sure if mine is the same. I'll have to open it up to find out. Above is a diagram from the SOR catalog, they don't list a bearing.

appreciate the help, there are so many threads on this topic generally, but nothing directly on point yet. Think I remember it was @jonheld that told someone there was no bearing, just a journal and bushing IIRC. And now I can't find that thread to confirm.

 

[Malleus]

The 3FEs from the 60 models may have had sleeve bearings. IDK

@Tools R Us is right about the bearing. You should find a number on it. Any bearing supply house will have a cross reference. There's nothing special about this bearing, except that it's probably sealed.

 

[cruiserdan]

Well, that's odd...I grabbed it from the '90 FSM.

That's because you grabbed the diesel engine pump.

 

[Malleus]

Bad info all around on my part. I was lazy and didn't pull the correct manual.
Here's the US spec '91 FSM:

 

[Tools R Us]

The 3FEs from the 60 models may have had sleeve bearings. IDK. ...

The early pumps had a bushing, the FJ62 pumps we have done were bearing. The FJ80 pump is a bushing? Don't know why Toyota went back and forth? Have done several bushing pumps with good results, only recall one with a wasted bushing and it was run dry, so had other issues.

 

[mts2snd]

Thanks for all the info, and confirmation that on my model, a 91' 3FE fj80 it is a shaft and bushing. Unfortunately, that brings me back to what I fear, that b/c there is play in the shaft, once apart, the pump will fail at inspection Step 1, Oil Clearance of Shaft and Bushing, and there the FSM says to "Replace the entire PS Pump". - it presumes there is no way to replace the worn bushing or shaft, but theses days a new OEM pump is NLA.
Next question: if there is no way to replace the bushing, how are shops refurbishing these pumps?
And follow up questions: if this can not be fixed, and I would like to avoid poor reputation aftermarket copies, what do I do? Can another belt driven pump that is readily available be used with a modified bracket? Has anyone found a good work around? If not I will have to figure something out. I have come pretty far in a short time base-lining this rig the right way to give up now. This is the last baseline/fix of a necessary system. everything else is cosmetic or simple like slow windows. thanks for all the help.

 

[fl4031003]

I recently rebuilt my sons from his 89 62, all OEM seals, clips and bearings. No issues works great.

 

[mts2snd]

I recently rebuilt my sons from his 89 62, all OEM seals, clips and bearings. No issues works great.

cool, wish I had the same pump. For some reason on the 91-92 80's they put an odd ball pump that has no bearing, just a bushing...that apparently can not be replaced. Will have to figure something out, or go aftermarket which is not good. The pump on a 3FE on the 62 was different. Worst case I guess something can be cobbled together, but rather not go into uncharted territory alone. It's my first LC

 

[itbrokeagain]

Does psc or any of the other off-road companies make a replacement?

 

[mts2snd]

Does psc or any of the other off-road companies make a replacement?

There are replacements, but the reputation here on mud is not good. Reputation on refurbs is also not good. I'd like to know how they refurb a pump that has a worn out bushing if the bushing can not be replaced? I suspect they just do the O-rings, seals and clips, the same parts that come in a rebuild kit. Still trying to find an answer on that.

Edit: Emailed PSC to see if they have an solution. They have a cool system if I had a 22RE.

 

[Michael Hanson]

Hi, These are pretty easy to do yourself . Mike