So I recently purchased my 1988 FJ62 from its original owner. To say the least im stoked to finally have one! Anyway, i'm having trouble with the power windows. I have researched some have have read both threads by "slcfj62" and did replace the realys in the little green box, and have taken apart the master switch and polished the points up, making sure to install the rockers correctly, and still no luck. So the symptoms/issues im having are weird. Starting with the drivers door/master control switch/window lock on, I can roll the drivers window down/up with no issues. If I turn the lock switch off, I can roll it down, but have to use the passenger rear switch to roll it back up. Keep in mind i'm still using all the switches on the master switch. So onto the drivers rear, rolls up and down without any issues using the master switch and the door switch. Moving over to the passenger side, when I activate the front passenger window switch I get nothing but a "click" out of the door motor. If I turn the lock switch on, I get a click in the door motor and the relay box in the drivers door, both showing that its pulling power in the volt meter. Onto the passenger rear, I get the same results and passenger front. So after fighting this for a week now Im hoping someone has a solution!! As I said, relays in the green box have been replaced and the symptoms were the same before I replaced them. If anybody has any advice please share. Thanks
88' FJ62 Power Window HELP!? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter PNWYOTA
- Start date
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Did the symptoms remain the same after your repair attempts as they were before the repair attempts?
If the symptoms remained the same before and after the repair attempt, then it is likely that the root problem has not been resolved...and additional trouble shooting is in order.
If the symptoms changed after the repair attempt, then you might assume that one or two things did not go as planned during the repair, so you might consider going over each step carefully in order to convince yourself that you did the repair correctly.
So does this mean that the passenger side rear switch (on the master switch at the DS) controls the DS front window?
Just thinking off the top of my head, but you might consider checking the motors themselves at each door. If you bypass the switch and apply 12+ to the motor, it should work.
If it does, then your problem lies somewhere with the switch or relays or wires.
If it doesn't, then it could either mean the motor is bad or the ground for the motor needs to be cleaned up and refastened.
Just add an @ before typing his MUD name and it will tag him in your post.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/power-windows-and-door-locks-permanent-fix.261058/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/power-window-diagnosis-steps.732034/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/power-window-failure-diagnosis.824046/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fj62-drivers-power-window-autodown-relay-fix.362868/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/my-next-electrical-gremlin.373756/#post5409237
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/power-windows-problems-and-fixes.815634/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/power-window-diagnosis-steps.732034/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/power-window-failure-diagnosis.824046/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fj62-drivers-power-window-autodown-relay-fix.362868/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/my-next-electrical-gremlin.373756/#post5409237
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/power-windows-problems-and-fixes.815634/
How about those symptoms. Are the symptoms you describe in your first post the same as the symptoms you experienced before the repair attempt?
- Thread starter
- #8
So I just pulled the motors and hooked direct power from the battery to them and they are in good working order. As soon as I hook it back to the wiring loom I get the "click" again. I will have to run to the store to get a light tester as I cant find mine at the moment
Run the continuity tests on the Master Switch (see post #10 above). If there is a short somewhere in that Master Switch, that might explain why one 'switch' is operating another window...and why there is enough power going to a motor to move it down, but not up...
Do you have a multi-meter? One that measures Voltage (V), Resistance (Ohms) and Current (Amperes)?
Continuity = 1/Resistance
Continuity is a measure of how well a 'resistor' conducts. Think of a 'resistor' more broadly...like a 'path'...for example, a wire is a 'resistor'.
Current 'flows' along a wire.
A copper wire that conducts Current well will show ~10s of Ohms or less (ideally it will read 0 Ohms if there is perfect conductivity because there is no resistance to flow).
If there is a break in the wire, when you measure Resistance between either end of the wire, you will see an increase in Resistance measured...if the break is complete, you will read a Resistance of Infinity on the far side of the break. It reads infinity because no current is making it past the break, so the Resistance is very very high.
If the break in the wire also touches another conductor (like the frame or body of the vehicle), then it is called a 'short'...because the current takes that shorter path (through the break) to ground (ground in this case is the frame or body...because the charge can reduce itself to a lower state by dissipating throughout the whole frame or body) instead of completing it's path along the wire.
If the wire is continuous (meaning that there is no device along the path...a device being a switch or some other electrical component), then the Resistance to the flow of that Current can be measured. Or, if there is a device along the path, then as current flows through that device, if the device is behaving properly, then Resistance measurements taken just before the current enters the device (like at the front contact of a switch) compared to Resistance measurement just after the current leaves the device will indicate whether or not the device is functioning properly.
In the case of a switch, if the switch is off (so the 'bridge' between the front and back contacts in the switch is 'open'), then if you measure Resistance at the front contact, you should measure less than tens of Ohms resistance...and on the back contact you should measure infinity.
Likewise, if you turn the switch on (so the 'bridge' between the front and back contacts in the switch is 'closed), then you should read less than tens of Ohms resistance at both front and back contacts...meaning that the Current is flowing through switch when it is on, and not flowing through the switch when it is off...so the switch is working correctly.
So, when you measure Resistance (which is the same as measuring Continuity, you just need to be mindful of how the multimeter presents the measurement...as Ohms (Resistance) or 1/Ohms (Continuity)), you are testing whether or not the 'paths' along electrical circuits allowing Current to pass freely.
The logic behind the series of Continuity tests in post #10 is to confirm that the paths upto and through each of the switches is working correctly.
The vehicle's electrical system is DC (Direct Current) - as opposed to AC (Alternating Current) that you see in homes.
DC systems obey Ohm's Law:
V = IR
where V is Volts (measured in Volts), I is current (measured in Amperes) and R is resistance (measured in Ohms)
To build an intuition around what this relation means, think of water flowing down a hill.
The higher the hill, the more potential energy to water will have at the top of the hill (Voltage - the higher the voltage, the more potential energy)
The wider the channel in which the water can flow, the lower the resistance and vice versa (Resistance - analagous to the wire gauge - the higher the AWG (American Wire Gauge - for us Yanks...) number, the skinnier the wire the more resistance to flow than a thicker wire for the same applied voltage).
The more water flows, the greater the current (Current in Amperes).
you can also write Ohm's Law:
V/R = I
or
V/I = R
So for the 12V system, selecting the correct gauge wire is important because if the wire is too small (high AGW number), R increases and I decreases (because V stays the same at 12V). If AGW is too small, R becomes too large and the wire becomes hot - potential fire hazard.
On the flip side, if the wire is too wide in diameter (low AGW number), R decreases and I increases. If I increases too much, then it can send too much current to the component and overwhelm the circuits on the component with current.
So fuses are used to prevent the circuit from reaching these extremes because the fuse is rated to blow at a lower threshold and break the circuit in a sacrificial act of protection.
To test whether a wire is good (able to freely conduct through it), you can do a continuity test by setting the multimeter to measure Ohms (to measure Resistance) and then attach one lead from the meter at one end of the wire and the other lead to the other wire end. If the wire is conducting properly, the reading should be on the order of tens of Ohms. You can also test fuses this way to make sure they are still good.
If there is a switch somewhere along the wire, and the switch is off, then the meter should show a Resistance value of infinity (open circuit...so it is not conducting, so there is a very large Resistance - the 'air gap' of the open switch). If you turn the switch to on, and both the switch and wire are working properly, then you should see Resistance value on the order of tens of Ohms again.
To test whether a wire is 'hot' or seeing 12V from the battery, set the multimeter to V and connect the red (+) lead from the voltmeter to the wire and ground the black (-) lead from the multimeter (any screw or metal on the dash or frame will do). If it is hot, it should read 12V. If there is a switch between the battery and the end of the wire you are testing, then with the switch off, it should read 0V and with the switch on it should read 12V.
With those two types of measurements, you should be able to work step by step through most circuits on the vehicle to make sure that all paths (wires) and switches are working correctly.
Remember, if you are testing a wire/component that doesn't have 12V+ (so it isn't hot), then you have to use the Ohm function (measures resistance/continuity) on the multi-meter.
The difference is that when using the Volt function (when you are measuring a hot wire), you are relying on the 12V+ power from the vehicle's battery to take the measurement (and the circuit is completed by grounding the black (-) lead of the meter...then current can flow through the device).
When you use the Ohm function, the meter itself is providing the power to take the measurement. So, for example, to test that a wire is making good ground to the vehicle's chasis, then you would connect the red(+) lead from the meter to the wire end closest to the component it is supposed to ground, and then connect the black(-) lead from the meter to the vehicle chasis (to complete the ground circuit). The meter sends out just enough current (if it is a good circuit) to be able to see itself. Sometimes you have to use a 'jumper wire' (an extension wire) to add on to either the black(-) lead from the meter (or both leads, for that matter) in order to make the lead long enough to get it where you want to make contact to close the circuit.
Don't use the Ohm function to test a 12V+ hot wire!!
Probably want to stay away from taking measurements from the charging system (alternator charging the battery) - high current = danger - and the High Voltage Ignition (coil supplying thousands of volts to the spark plugs).
DC systems obey Ohm's Law:
V = IR
where V is Volts (measured in Volts), I is current (measured in Amperes) and R is resistance (measured in Ohms)
To build an intuition around what this relation means, think of water flowing down a hill.
The higher the hill, the more potential energy to water will have at the top of the hill (Voltage - the higher the voltage, the more potential energy)
The wider the channel in which the water can flow, the lower the resistance and vice versa (Resistance - analagous to the wire gauge - the higher the AWG (American Wire Gauge - for us Yanks...) number, the skinnier the wire the more resistance to flow than a thicker wire for the same applied voltage).
The more water flows, the greater the current (Current in Amperes).
you can also write Ohm's Law:
V/R = I
or
V/I = R
So for the 12V system, selecting the correct gauge wire is important because if the wire is too small (high AGW number), R increases and I decreases (because V stays the same at 12V). If AGW is too small, R becomes too large and the wire becomes hot - potential fire hazard.
On the flip side, if the wire is too wide in diameter (low AGW number), R decreases and I increases. If I increases too much, then it can send too much current to the component and overwhelm the circuits on the component with current.
So fuses are used to prevent the circuit from reaching these extremes because the fuse is rated to blow at a lower threshold and break the circuit in a sacrificial act of protection.
To test whether a wire is good (able to freely conduct through it), you can do a continuity test by setting the multimeter to measure Ohms (to measure Resistance) and then attach one lead from the meter at one end of the wire and the other lead to the other wire end. If the wire is conducting properly, the reading should be on the order of tens of Ohms. You can also test fuses this way to make sure they are still good.
If there is a switch somewhere along the wire, and the switch is off, then the meter should show a Resistance value of infinity (open circuit...so it is not conducting, so there is a very large Resistance - the 'air gap' of the open switch). If you turn the switch to on, and both the switch and wire are working properly, then you should see Resistance value on the order of tens of Ohms again.
To test whether a wire is 'hot' or seeing 12V from the battery, set the multimeter to V and connect the red (+) lead from the voltmeter to the wire and ground the black (-) lead from the multimeter (any screw or metal on the dash or frame will do). If it is hot, it should read 12V. If there is a switch between the battery and the end of the wire you are testing, then with the switch off, it should read 0V and with the switch on it should read 12V.
With those two types of measurements, you should be able to work step by step through most circuits on the vehicle to make sure that all paths (wires) and switches are working correctly.
Remember, if you are testing a wire/component that doesn't have 12V+ (so it isn't hot), then you have to use the Ohm function (measures resistance/continuity) on the multi-meter.
The difference is that when using the Volt function (when you are measuring a hot wire), you are relying on the 12V+ power from the vehicle's battery to take the measurement (and the circuit is completed by grounding the black (-) lead of the meter...then current can flow through the device).
When you use the Ohm function, the meter itself is providing the power to take the measurement. So, for example, to test that a wire is making good ground to the vehicle's chasis, then you would connect the red(+) lead from the meter to the wire end closest to the component it is supposed to ground, and then connect the black(-) lead from the meter to the vehicle chasis (to complete the ground circuit). The meter sends out just enough current (if it is a good circuit) to be able to see itself. Sometimes you have to use a 'jumper wire' (an extension wire) to add on to either the black(-) lead from the meter (or both leads, for that matter) in order to make the lead long enough to get it where you want to make contact to close the circuit.
Don't use the Ohm function to test a 12V+ hot wire!!
Probably want to stay away from taking measurements from the charging system (alternator charging the battery) - high current = danger - and the High Voltage Ignition (coil supplying thousands of volts to the spark plugs).
For example, to test the 'Window Lock Switch', with the switch removed from the wire harness, set the switch to LOCK.
In the LOCK position, the switch should be open.
Set the multi-meter to measure either Resistance or Continuity.
Touch one probe end of the multimeter to contact 10.
Touch the probe end of the pen light to contact 0.
The meter should read infinity, because the switch should be open.
Now set the Window Lock Switch to "UNLOCK". Now when you make conatct to 10 and 0, the meter should read ~0 Ohms...since there is supposed to be current allowed to flow through the switch in the "UNLOCK" state because the switch is now closed.
Continue working through each of the contacts on the switch under the stated condition (switch on/off...etc.).
If, under each condition, the contact gives you the reading you expect it to, then the switch is good. If not, there is a problem with one or more of the components in the switch.
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No, it's not that bad. I just threw a bunch of conceptual info for your perusement.
Work through the FSM tests for the master switch (post #17 above) and the relay (post #6).
- Thread starter
- #19
ok. well thanks a lot for all your help! I have a local cruiser place that's about 45 minutes away from me that has all kinds of parts laying around. I might just drive it up there one day after work and plug in a different master control switch and see what happens. When I did the first tear down of the master switch, the little rockers were all out of place, and some were a little bent outta shape. I've tried my best to reassemble it the way it should but am wondering if the rockers just aren't in the factory shape. Im also going to call Toyota and see if you can possibly order just the rockers....I'll keep this post updated as I would love to resolve the problem. Thanks again
Hang on, I think I messed up on those instructions above in post#17. I just realized that the terminals they are referring to in the chart are for the pins at the wire connector...which means you must test for Continuity with the switch unistalled from the vehicle's wire harness.
You will need a multi-meter, since a pen light cannot generate it's own current.
If you are near Seattle, you could look into Torfab. He's a capable guy.
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