87 FJ60 GM 6.2 Sidewinder Turbo Swap

[handcannon]

Someday I will have all the parts needed to do a 6.2/6.5 swap into my 40. I've done a lot of dreaming about it. I've used http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html to help plan rear end gears, tire size, etc. Looks like you have 4:11 gears. I don't remember if you've specified tire size though.

GM60, it is good to have first hand info on how the 6.2 does in a 60. You don't mention gearing or tire size though. With an 84 I'm going to guess 3:73's for gearing. What size tires are you running? Are you running the stock 4 speed? What's your RPM at 60 MPH? Just trying to compare to my plans for my 40.

Don

 

[antichrist]

I am now running 32's with the 4:10 gears. This has been a OK combo but will re-evaluate once I see speeds and torque results

 

[handcannon]

I used the http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html website and plugged in 32" tires, H42 transmission, and Toyota TC with 1.96 high range gears. With the 6.2/6.5 motor 2000 RPM (give or take 200 RPM) appears to be the optimum RPM for economy. I compared 3.73 gears with 4.11 gears and here is what I got. With 4.11 gears and 2000 RPM, I got a speed of 46 MPH. With the same parameters, except 3.73 instead of 4.11 I got 51 MPH. With the same parameters, except 315/75/16 tires I got 50 and 55 MPH.

That calculator doesn't take into account the torque of the motor, so that will have to be seat of the pants figuring.

Play around with that gear ratio calculator, using different transmissions, tire sizes, and gears, and see what you can find that fits with what you want/can afford.

Don

 

[Rock40]

I understand exactly what you are trying to achieve with the 6.2 conversion. I was after the same thing 16 years ago when I fitted a non turbo 6.2 into my '84 2H 60 series.
The 2H wasn't good at overtaking when the 60 was heavily loaded, and in some situations it was quite dangerous.
I did my conversion in August 2000, so it's 16 years almost to the day.
I still have that 60 and still love driving it, but the paint is back to undercoat on the roof and bonnet, and needs urgent attention.
With a non turbo 6.2 in good condition, you'll have no trouble cruising fully loaded at 70 mph, and still get good fuel economy.
The low speed crawling will blow your mind. These motors have a LOT of torque at idle, as well as a LOT of engine braking.
This makes them unreal in the rough and steep off road driving.
Looking forward to following the rest of your conversion.

Well put. Having owned a CUCV for a bit (factory non-turbo 6.2) I can vouch also that the difference between the 2F and the 6.2 will be huge.

Since everyone has an opinion, here is mine: I'd really just stick with the non-turbo route. Sometimes simple is better and GM developed that engine to be naturally aspirated in the first place. Compared to modern diesel engines, the 6.2 is fairly low output engine but it can be a reliable workhorse that will get you everywhere you need to go.

Case in point, when my buddy left Montana for Washington a few years back, he had a 6.2 K30 and he loaded a CJ5 into the bed. He also flat towed a 85' Toyota mini-truck behind. He wasn't the fastest truck up the mountain passes but the 6.2 did it no sweat.

 

[GM60]

My 6.2 '84 60 is running 4.11 diffs, H55 5 speed, and original skinny rims with 7.50x16" tyres. This gearing is too low for best fuel economy at highway speeds, but it does alright, and will still run way better than 70mph, plus it gives me a really nice slow crawl speed at about 500 rpm idle. A 5 speed allows gearing for low speed crawl but still have usable highway speeds.
The revs at 60 mph are about 2300.
Fuel economy with this setup is very similar to my other 60 which is an HJ61 with 12ht, 5 speed, 4.11's, and 31" tyres.

 

[antichrist]

Slid the real deal in to verify fit:

I thought the 6.2 would really make the front end squat down - it didn't. The weight and placement appear to better than the old 4.2l forklift motor

Next placed the sidewinder kit to verify if the kit would fit:

Pretty good fit- obviously there is going to be some modifying the inner fender (but looks somewhat minor). The brake lines are going to have to be modified to allow the 3" down tube routing.

The driver's side has needs though: my steering pump has a small interference and the steering box will need to be shimmed out about 1/4".

The steering box clears the ps pump tank but the hose connection is a direct interference. A little more space would help- so the shimming. I have already removed the hose connection and will spin it and braze it back to get the clearence.

 

[antichrist]

Already removed the motor and next is to weld out the motor mounts (anyone that debates about using a replica block for a swap should re-think not buying - the ability to easily move the fake motor around and get an ideal fit made this fit up soo much better).

Got the mounts completed welded out. I'll need to re-route brake and clutch lines. The frame, firewall and tunnel now need cosmetic work and paint, so the tranny and TC will come out. The old brake booster needs to come out and get replaced with a Hydroboost unit. I'll make a set of shims for the tranny mount - in case I need to adjust the final height. I was thinking about custom exhaust manifolds but it's looking like the driver's side stock manful and the Sidewinder passenger side are going to work well and the Turbo goes in per the kit. This will reduce the degree of custom engine work to get that to fit.

 

[antichrist]

Other pics illustrating the fit:

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Looks awesome!!

Change the reservoir style on the saginaw pump and you won't need to space out your steering box.

 

[antichrist]

GLTHFJ60 - I had struggled with the alternate style already. Can you indicate the style that would help this out?

 

[Rock40]

You could go remote reservoir which would probably solve it. The remote cans have a vertical feed if I remember correctly. PSC sells just the reservoir cans which you can swap onto the pump. Your drivetrain fitment looks great, very well thought out

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Yup, I was thinking the remote style that came on GM vans like @Rock40 suggested.

 

[antichrist]

Anyone have a take on heater hose routing? Includes front and rear heaters

 

[handcannon]

Thank you for those awesome pics! Real good with showing clearances. I do have several questions for you if you don't mind answering them.

1. How much front to back space does the Marks adapter take up? Off the top of my head I think the Ranger OD is 7".
2. Do you know yet how much clearance you will have between the fan and radiator?
3. Do you know yet what radiator you will use? Since the 6.5 turbo has cooling concerns this is of real importance to me. The 6.2 with Banks turbo I'm assuming will be the same as the 6.5 turbo.
4. What's the closest distance between the head and firewall? It looks like you have a huge space there. Gives me some real hope that in the future I will have lots of room for a custom fit center mount turbo.
5. How much clearance between the pan and axle do you have? Also looks like you have plenty there.

I'm sure I will think of other questions, within minutes after I finish this post. Excellent thread!

Don

 

[antichrist]

I check later tonight on details and will post pics for posterity.
1)I think it is close to 7" like the Ranger one needs to note that the Marks adapter bolts to the Toyota bell housing push the whole motor forward
2) I am not sure of the clearence at the radiator yet but I am not too worried. I converted to the single serpentine and I am eliminating the mechanical fan for the lower profile more effective electric fans
3) I am going to use a 4 core aluminum "knock off" of the LC fan. I also converted the 6.2 thermostat housing to the dual thermostat housing and put on a high flow reverse flow water pump - like the 6.5. (The two problems with the 6.2's are head cracking warping due to insufficient coolant flow (got that taken care of) and the destruction of the main bearing webs related to when the harmonic damper degrades ( I changed the old damper to a Fluidamper)). Short of it: Teh aluminum and the higher flow and oiler cooler will keep things plenty kewl.
4) I'll measure and post later the actual dimension. I did physically place the turbo in the Valley Position - plenty of room! I am sticking with the Sidewinder Kit for now b/c - I have it
5) I measured about 8 plus inches. The axle sitting on the bump stops - clearance would be like 2 inches

I'll be removing brake system (replacing with hydroboost) and will be painting firewall and frame next before putting the engine back in. I'll post detail and pics later for you inquiries. Let me know if you need anything else

 

[antichrist]

Damn work - really gets in the way. Got the engine back out and stripped the frame and firewall down. Welded up the the new engine mounts. Painted the firewall 033 white and got the front part of the frame covered in rust encapsultor. Then frame paint.

Even went after the area of the body covered by the fron fenders

Next up is install the new hydroboost, run new brake and clutch lines before the final placement of the engine. So there is a problem being an engineer - never can leave things quite like it came out of the box. The Marks adapter has a boss that guides the throw out extension. Marks intends to have one pack a smal amount of grease to keep the clutch thro working. Plus it has a somewhat sloppy (0.005") fit.

Well... Just seems like an oil empregnanted piece of brass will work so much better. So it's off t the machine shop to put in a wider tighter piece of oil brass. I ....just.....can't......help myself.

 

[handcannon]

Thank you for your reply to my questions. It's been just over a week since my questions, and I feel I must apologize for my slow response. Due to being gone for several days (family reunion), and then being so far behind with e-mails and Mud forum, I am struggling to catch up. I haven't had any time to thoroughly digest your answers yet, but I will get there eventually. This thread is really interesting to me.

Don

 

[antichrist]

Hey Don - I totally get all those other commitments. I am currently struggling with the same issue as my preference right now would be to be on this project more than not. I am very willing to supply any info or the benefit of my experiences here- kind of the reason I wanted to post the progress on Mud. Tis site has been a huge help to me over the years and this community has really helped me out.

Got my adapter back from the shop and the oil brass bushing is in repleat with an "oil groove":

This has a slightly improved fit and will wear better than the aluminum boss straight out of the casting that Marks provided. While I was at the machine shop ( very dangerous seven words) I had the Banks Sidewinder logo on top of the air box milled off and had some grooves cut:

I'll paint this the Detroit Diesel Green and re-sand the top back off for that "Billet" look. This helps eliminate that Banks "stamp" on just about everything that comes in the kit

 

[Rock40]

Love it! fun with lathes and mills.....

 

[Ironbark]

G'day

I thought about doing a conversion like this a few years ago - the cost of a good 6.2 at that time put me off.

Really good to see this work here.

Just from the photos it looks like the exhaust manifold is going to sit close to your power steering on the left. It looks like the turbo manifold might be ceramic coated? Have you considered heat shielding? I've "cooked" things in the past so am weary of potential radiant heat issues.

Ironbark