Builds 86 Xtra Cab Build (4Wheelunderground 3 link front, 4 link rear and 3.4 swap) (2 Viewers)

[aztoyman]

You can see the red index line on the tube in the pic. The other pic shows the notch in the tool to measure the degrees of rotation. (Coplanar would be when all the tabs on the tool stay in alignment with the red line on all the tubes.) Hopefully I pay attention and go the correct way when I bend the tube.

 

[littlevulture]

Those protractors look like really sweet tools. I think version 2 looks better aesthetically but I dunno anything about cage design so that’s all I can contribute.

 

[bkg]

I like that you're trying to keep it tight. poor fitting cages is a pet peeve of mine.

 

[aztoyman]

@littlevulture , I don't know anything about cage design other than reading everything I can. Seems like there are "acceptable" designs but none are perfect. But they all need to be fit up properly, welded properly and of the proper material.

These tools are definitely nice. Pretty sure I'd have to cut and turn misplaced bends if I didn't have them.

My goal is to have a safe cage that fits my use of my truck. I'm proceeding cautiously and throwing my thought process out there.

I was hoping more of you guys with cage building or design experience would chime in. @bkg thanks for your comment.

 

[Manhattan]

I really like where you're heading with the design. I like the 2nd version also.

But, I've only done a handful of cages. My general view has been: It will not be the absolute safest it can be... but it will be exponentially safer no cage. The right materials, mounting to the frame where possible, right-sized plates, etc. are mandatory. But door bars, triangulating... it really gets tough to know where to stop. I built one Jeep (shut up, it was pre-enlightenment) that felt like I was strapping into a racecar every time I drove it. It sucked. I think it took three cages (and three Jeeps) before I got it right.

This is an example of one I (me, not the inspectors at a race) think I got right. The cage would be stronger if the door bar was higher. Yep, but no. Same with the tube behind the front seats (invisible in the pic) Yep, but no. My goal was to get in/out and drive no differently than before the cage.

 

[aztoyman]

@Manhattan , thanks for your input. My wife and I are in our early 60's now and getting in and out is tough enough in these trucks so an important factor. After hanging upside down in a stock seatbelt, my wife requested the cage and harness. We will get used to it. It's not our daily driver.

I've read a bunch of the rule books for different sanctioning bodies and most say welded to frame. (unless unibody) SCORE and Best in Desert(?) allow bolt in plates on full frame vehicles like I'm doing. I'm following these guidelines but looked at all I found for design ideas.

I see LOTS of posts on "forums" saying to tie the floor plates to the frame but the rules books don't. In fact engineers chime in and say one or the other but not both or it will crack frames and bodywork. That's why I'm going with sufficient plates directly over my factory mounts. Hopefully that's a good decision.

I'm not really wanting to cut holes in my cab for rear kickers. Kinda necessary though. I have two rear slider windows. One is perfect and one that's rough that may get modified for bars to pass through.

An X brace in the roof is a requirement yet it does say if you use a halo (one piece roof section) it's not mandatory to have the X brace (still highly recommended) An open halo would keep the head knockers away from being directly over our noggins.

Which brings up padding. SFI padding is designed for helmets hitting it, not heads. I see there is dual density padding available now. SFI pads under softer stuff.

That brings up the whole helmet "discussions/arguments". I see many off road parks are requiring helmets now and full Snell or DOT approved helmets are heavy, leading to Hans device..........no thanks. So now we are starting to see "Trail" helmets like the Axle brand ones. They offer a cool lightweight alternative if you're worried about knocking your head on your cage and also a DOT approved version for parks that require it.

It's quite the rabbit hole. You see why my brain is strained. Trying to Keep It Simple.........as possible.

Thanks for diving in. By the way, I used to want a Jeep. Until I started working on all my buddies Jeeps. I'd have to build one, not buy one.

 

[bkg]

One of the things that you've already done correctly - in my opinion - is making your base plates large and covering the body mounts. Most aftermarket "sport" cages don't even do that, so you're ahead of the game.

 

[Mudder]

It’s ironic to me that they require Snell or DOT helmets at off road parks now. DOT is a joke, they allow manufactures to test their own helmets and allow a maximum of 400 G’s to be transferred to the head. Snells is better but still fails in comparisons to ECE rated helmets.

 

[aztoyman]

It's a cover your butt world. They may not really care, just want people to have fun, make their own decisions and not be held liable. ??

 

[Mudder]

You’re 100% correct. It’s not about actual safety. It’s all about CYA because of insurance and people being happy to sue people for their own actions

I am excited to see how the cage looks. I’m debating about one after a few scary situations in the snow earlier this year but I don’t want it to be in the way of daily driving.

 

[gnob]

what do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

 

[aztoyman]

A good start?

 

[aztoyman]

Like cops. Nobody likes them until they need them.

 

[thetoyotaman]

Is that where the bottom dweller joke comes from or a good start?

 

[aztoyman]

IDK but I might need one if I don't build a proper cage.

 

[aztoyman]

I got my ass kicked in the heat today trying to find my tube bending groove. I mean all day to do a couple bends. Well, most of the day. This morning was my annual physical. I'm so paranoid about miscalculating and wasting tube. I am happy to say it came out EXACTLY like the mock-up. $hit did go wrong though. Man I have RESPECT for you tube bending masters out there.

I calculated the total length needed. Not too bad as the formula is right on the tool for the bend. Then they mark it so you don't forget to add 3/4" on each end of each bend. Just part of the tool design. Add the length of the PVC from your mock-up. Add a bit for a fudge factor on the end, mark it half way and plan the bends from the center out. Seems easy enough...............to a clueless amateur like me anyway. Especially after watching the videos for the tools. Looks easy. I don't have the same bender though.

The START of the bend placement is critical if I expect it to fit where I need it to. I had to dig out my first ever test bend I did with my JD2 Model 32 where they tell you to make a guide bend for mock-up. I basically held it up to the Rogue Fab tooling, matched the profile and marked where MY die is going to start the bend. I know this is obvious to you veteran bending experts but it was something I had to "grasp" in my goofy head.

I like to have my bender vertical. It's easier to keep in plane for me. I was super careful to mark my line along the entire tube. Clamped my digital angle finder on each end, made sure the die of the bender was at 90 degrees to the floor. Zeroed my pointer and started bending. RIGHT INTO THE CEILING!!

So I rearranged the garage and figured I'd just rotate it to horizontal while it's all tight. Yeah right. I DID get it horizontal but I bent the pointer so I not only had to get everything in plane again, I had no idea what my bend was at this point. I got it all leveled out and in plane and used the tool to guestimate the bend so far. Then I under-bent it a couple degrees, pulled it and compared it to my model on the floor. Finally got it back in the bender and set-up with an accurate pointer. Then it's hittin $hit again and I have to move a bunch of stuff into the driveway. Looked like a yard sale.

I'm pretty flustered at this point and damn determined that this F-ing hoop is going to F-ing fit. I'm not wasting 10 1/2 feet of DOM. After in and out of the bender until I could trust my readings, I got TWO dang bends done, IN PLANE and EXACTLY the same as the model. And NO picture for you guys that had to read my rant.

Well, I have this one. It's HOT

Hopefully tomorrow I PROPERLY do the last two bends that are rotated 25 degrees from the first two.

 

[aztoyman]

Yesterday I did get my 2 gauge wiring for the alternator installed. I also pulled my fabricated brackets for the coolant bottle and steering reservoir, prepped and painted them. If I see anything I can knock out, I am trying to do so.

 

[Broski]

You well get it

 

[Broski]

I don't know how you guys do it

 

[aztoyman]

53 degrees!! I'd have to put on my parka.