you could probably shave a little space on the HA hose by using a 90° fitting off the box, then to the hose.
Builds 86 Xtra Cab Build (4Wheelunderground 3 link front, 4 link rear and 3.4 swap) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter aztoyman
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- Thread starter
- #1,322
@gnob I do have a stubby 90 adapter if that's what you're talking about. It does tuck it in closer. The hose has a 90 on one end and straight on the other so I reversed it and did what you suggested. It cleared at the box/rad support but the 90 at the ram screwed up the hose routing. It will work if I get another hose that's longer and straight fittings on both ends.
- Thread starter
- #1,324
Double 90. It fits. I thought it might choke flow? Not sure though.
ntsqd
technerd
Machined 90°'s were something that Tom Lee, former owner (now retired) of Lee Power Steering, told me to specifically avoid. Period. Said that they cause too much cavitation in the fluid. Use formed tube 90°'s only.
I used to think that was pretty extreme, but having built a PS reservoir in the general form of a dry sump oil tank for my current project I got to see just how fast the fluid is moving thru a PS system. Now, I'm a Believer. It was after witnessing that when I realized something. A PS pump for Hydro-Boost (which I have) is usually set up for 3.0 GPM. The epiphanic realization was that the reservoir holds at most pint of fluid. In one minute that fluid has been removed and replaced 12 times!
I used to think that was pretty extreme, but having built a PS reservoir in the general form of a dry sump oil tank for my current project I got to see just how fast the fluid is moving thru a PS system. Now, I'm a Believer. It was after witnessing that when I realized something. A PS pump for Hydro-Boost (which I have) is usually set up for 3.0 GPM. The epiphanic realization was that the reservoir holds at most pint of fluid. In one minute that fluid has been removed and replaced 12 times!
I have heard this two, yet I see them widely used.
ntsqd
technerd
I see them too, not widely, but I do see them. I will never use one myself. I suspect that those who do use them either don't know any better or don't care. Like I posted above, I didn't fully grasp the importance of it until I saw the hurricane of PS fluid in the reservoir that I built. When the fluid is moving thru the system that fast it is crucial that cavitation causing spots and flow restrictions be kept to the bare minimum. Machined 90° fittings are both.
There are other solutions for the situation that AZ finds himself in if the current set-up isn't enough. The first one that I would look into is a swivel o-ring boss ("ORB") hose end and machining the box for such a fitting if the casting is deep enough. If it is not deep enough then welding or brazing in a bung that is deep enough will fix that. It can be fitted slightly proud to the outer surface if internal clearance is a problem. There is an SAE/ mil-spec for the ORB port that has all of the angles & dims listed, but most use a form tool to create those ports. Can see those dims and buy the port tool(s) here: https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...8bc029d6faf9f/1698433395844/saej1926s_new.pdf If making a bung on a lathe those port dims will be easy to create w/o buying a port form cutting tool.
Worst case could go to a banjo fitting, but at these flow levels that is only slightly better than a machined 90° fitting.
There are other solutions for the situation that AZ finds himself in if the current set-up isn't enough. The first one that I would look into is a swivel o-ring boss ("ORB") hose end and machining the box for such a fitting if the casting is deep enough. If it is not deep enough then welding or brazing in a bung that is deep enough will fix that. It can be fitted slightly proud to the outer surface if internal clearance is a problem. There is an SAE/ mil-spec for the ORB port that has all of the angles & dims listed, but most use a form tool to create those ports. Can see those dims and buy the port tool(s) here: https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...8bc029d6faf9f/1698433395844/saej1926s_new.pdf If making a bung on a lathe those port dims will be easy to create w/o buying a port form cutting tool.
Worst case could go to a banjo fitting, but at these flow levels that is only slightly better than a machined 90° fitting.
Do you have a link to the formed tube 90*
- Thread starter
- #1,329
I should be good to go now. The 90 degree end of the hose did clear the body once attached. There just wasn't enough room to get it over the fitting. Once it is threaded down, it had room.
With the small amount I gained getting the fitting in further plus a little hammer work on the sheet metal and I'm sure I'll have the room.
IDK what my TG pump flow is. A similar PSC pump is 2.8 GPM @ 3000 RPM. So far I've been able to use straight hose ends on straight fittings or formed tube ends like the two that were included with the hydro assist kit.
In this case IDK if the fitting @gnob suggested would be a problem. The other hose from the ram is restricted down to about 1/8". The hose going into the top of the box T's into that tiny "vein" going across the casting. Essentially, one end of the ram circuit has an orifice.
I can see that type of fitting being a flow restriction on the pump outlet.
Dang it. Now I have to see why they don't enlarge that port when the steering box is modded for hydro assist.
With the small amount I gained getting the fitting in further plus a little hammer work on the sheet metal and I'm sure I'll have the room.
IDK what my TG pump flow is. A similar PSC pump is 2.8 GPM @ 3000 RPM. So far I've been able to use straight hose ends on straight fittings or formed tube ends like the two that were included with the hydro assist kit.
In this case IDK if the fitting @gnob suggested would be a problem. The other hose from the ram is restricted down to about 1/8". The hose going into the top of the box T's into that tiny "vein" going across the casting. Essentially, one end of the ram circuit has an orifice.
I can see that type of fitting being a flow restriction on the pump outlet.
Dang it. Now I have to see why they don't enlarge that port when the steering box is modded for hydro assist.
ntsqd
technerd
Not easily, and I'm sure that I've used them in the past. Could instead go with O-Ring Bump like GM uses in their later PS systems. That might mean crimped hose ends instead of Field Attachables, although inconvenient that's not a huge problem.
The ram doesn't see recirculating flow like the PS box does.
- Thread starter
- #1,332
This is starting to look like a Badass little truck.
ntsqd
technerd
Yes, indeed!
That's the F3's next engine bagged up at the rear of the shop?
That's the F3's next engine bagged up at the rear of the shop?
- Thread starter
- #1,334
Thanks. Good eye! I had to buy a block to get a 4" Merc crank I wanted. The crank and rods are ready to run. The block needed to be cleaned up and crack checked It just needs to be decked and bored. It's out of a 49 and I'm going .125" over. The engine in the 52 is a pretty worn out original bore with 3.75" stroke.
Gotta get this almost 3 year project done first. I'm looking forward to wheeling again.
Gotta get this almost 3 year project done first. I'm looking forward to wheeling again.
ntsqd
technerd
The water pump cavities are pretty distinctive when you know what they are. So about 276 CID? I'd think that will have some grunt.
Sympathetic to long term projects and just wanting to drive them.
Sympathetic to long term projects and just wanting to drive them.
Vary Bad Ass
Dude, looks so good.
On the topic of hydraulic design/performance and preventing cavitation, system pressurization is worth bringing up. A lot of guys run just an open vent. I am going to be going to a pressurized breather valve. PSC makes one and most my system is PSC, but I do like this Radial Dynamics one still allows you to route the over flow to a location where you don't mind a mess.
radial-dynamics.com
It makes complete sense that running the system under a pressurized, closed, circuit would reduce cavitation, and this video is worth watching.
On the topic of hydraulic design/performance and preventing cavitation, system pressurization is worth bringing up. A lot of guys run just an open vent. I am going to be going to a pressurized breather valve. PSC makes one and most my system is PSC, but I do like this Radial Dynamics one still allows you to route the over flow to a location where you don't mind a mess.
Reservoir Breather Valve - 10 PSI
Our Vortex Reservoir is the latest innovation in steering technology with a patent-pending design that actively de-aerates steering fluid, circulates 100% of stored fluid capacity, and keeps your steering pump supply air free even at extreme angles when off-road. Find out why the pros trust the...
radial-dynamics.com
It makes complete sense that running the system under a pressurized, closed, circuit would reduce cavitation, and this video is worth watching.
- Thread starter
- #1,338
I haven't worked at the Cat dealership since 2004 but some of the machinery back then allowed pressure to build in the hydraulic tank as it heated up. It just limited the pressure and had a vacuum breaker for when it cooled. Some machines were pressurized with a small pump.
I haven't had issues with my system on my 88 so I wouldn't think I would on this. This is all good to be aware of though.
I haven't had issues with my system on my 88 so I wouldn't think I would on this. This is all good to be aware of though.
- Thread starter
- #1,339
@RichardSkinner I like this breather valve you linked and may try one. The PSC is similar but "pops off" at 6 psi vs 10 psi in this one. Both about the same price. To add, I see they offer it in 5 psi as well.
I'll see if my pump whines once I get it running again and go from there.
I'll see if my pump whines once I get it running again and go from there.
Agreed on the design differences. I am going to put one on my system.
He has another good video with audible whining differences to consider. If you have whining you could rig up a small pump like he does to help decide.
Carry on! Build looks awesome!
