I was unaware of the issues with machined 90*hose end. There's one in my hydro assist setup, should I be trying to replace it with the formed tube 90 ?
Builds 86 Xtra Cab Build (4Wheelunderground 3 link front, 4 link rear and 3.4 swap) (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter aztoyman
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- #522
I looked at Marlin's knuckle gussets. I like them. I'd definitely have to cut them up a bit to fit.
I can probably position the cylinder behind the tie rod like I had it with leaf springs and I still might. What I didn't like was the weight of it rotating the tie rod ends down.
The solution to that was to pre rotate the TRE"s opposite each other and tighten the jamb nuts. I did that but they would come loose no matter what I did.
I'll see how it looks when I get it back under the truck. There will be armor protecting it either way.
I can probably position the cylinder behind the tie rod like I had it with leaf springs and I still might. What I didn't like was the weight of it rotating the tie rod ends down.
The solution to that was to pre rotate the TRE"s opposite each other and tighten the jamb nuts. I did that but they would come loose no matter what I did.
I'll see how it looks when I get it back under the truck. There will be armor protecting it either way.
I had to cut up my Marlin knuckle gussets to fit the 80 axle
I had to clock ( pre rotate TREs ) on my also but use the stock tie rod with clamps that don't come lose.
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ntsqd
technerd
I suspect that above the tie-rod is a direct hit on the oil pan. In front? (yeah, I see that going over like a fart in church!) Those FJ80 TRE's are an odd thread, so making your own pinch-clamp weld-in ends would be difficult but not impossible. Does anyone already make such a part?
Back when he was the owner of Lee Power Steering, Tom Lee made a point of telling me that he would not honor any warranty on anything he built if we used a machined 90° in "his" system. I hadn't even asked about them, so he must have had problems with them often enough to try to head those problems off before they became one. He was emphatic enough about it that I asked why and got an education. Yeah, I'd work out how to remove one if you can.
PS systems are bad enough about cavitation that I've designed a fluid reservoir with dry sump oil tank type features specifically to get the air out of the PS fluid.
Back when he was the owner of Lee Power Steering, Tom Lee made a point of telling me that he would not honor any warranty on anything he built if we used a machined 90° in "his" system. I hadn't even asked about them, so he must have had problems with them often enough to try to head those problems off before they became one. He was emphatic enough about it that I asked why and got an education. Yeah, I'd work out how to remove one if you can.
PS systems are bad enough about cavitation that I've designed a fluid reservoir with dry sump oil tank type features specifically to get the air out of the PS fluid.
- Thread starter
- #525
I'm not putting the cylinder in front of the tie rod. Possibly under.
ntsqd
technerd
I didn't think that you would as I sure wouldn't, just that it is a possible option.
Just a thought, but has anyone ever used a hydro-steer ram in the middle of the tie-rod? Build a housing anchor that has some lateral float in it.
Just a thought, but has anyone ever used a hydro-steer ram in the middle of the tie-rod? Build a housing anchor that has some lateral float in it.
- Thread starter
- #527
toyotaboy80, I don't know how far off the rear diff pinion flange is. I just know it's off center. The equal length axle shafts are the give away. Centered pinion shafts usually have unequal length axle shafts. The ring gear is along side the pinion. To center the flange or yoke it would have to sit off to one side and axle length adjusted accordingly.
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- #528
I got the axle under the truck today. Mounted the steering box and drag link. Rechecked all my measurements, made sure steering is centered and rechecked steering stops. Cycled the suspension and checked to see how much room I have under there for my hydro assist cylinder. NOT MUCH.
I took some measurements and marked the housing with soapstone for a clear area for a mounting position for the cylinder. I marked the tie rod for max allowable driver side location for the clamp. Full left turn with max stuff on driver side doesn't leave much room.
The cylinder has to go under the tie rod. I have a tiny bit of room to rotate it slightly behind it.
There is not enough room on top for the typical Toyota truss but there is about 2 1/2" of free space to work with and not hit the oil pan.
I'll get the axle back on the bench tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
Full left turn, full stuff. And a couple more views. Last pic is ride height or close to it. Not really touching frame. Camera angle.
I took some measurements and marked the housing with soapstone for a clear area for a mounting position for the cylinder. I marked the tie rod for max allowable driver side location for the clamp. Full left turn with max stuff on driver side doesn't leave much room.
The cylinder has to go under the tie rod. I have a tiny bit of room to rotate it slightly behind it.
There is not enough room on top for the typical Toyota truss but there is about 2 1/2" of free space to work with and not hit the oil pan.
I'll get the axle back on the bench tomorrow and see what I can come up with.
Full left turn, full stuff. And a couple more views. Last pic is ride height or close to it. Not really touching frame. Camera angle.
- Thread starter
- #529
Another day of $hit happened so I didn't get on this until later in the day.
I got my rotors, one caliper and a box of wheel studs delivered today. I wanted to let those interested in longer wheel studs know that the Dorman 610-312 studs are NOT 1/4" longer than the OEM studs as listed in the chart in the Tundra brake link I attached above. The Toyota ones "might" be but I bought the Dorman.
I measured them at only 1/8" longer.
1.719" vs 1.595"
I got my rotors, one caliper and a box of wheel studs delivered today. I wanted to let those interested in longer wheel studs know that the Dorman 610-312 studs are NOT 1/4" longer than the OEM studs as listed in the chart in the Tundra brake link I attached above. The Toyota ones "might" be but I bought the Dorman.
I measured them at only 1/8" longer.
1.719" vs 1.595"
- Thread starter
- #530
I barely started on the axle armor and mount for the hydro assist cylinder. I have a plan though and got started. I managed to make a cardboard pattern for one piece and got the steel cut out. All I have for today.
Really crammin 10lbs into a 5lb basket there.
As for the diff flange being center I figured the ring gear gear would be off center of the carrier to allow the pinion to take center. I'll keep it in mind so I dont pull my hair out wondering what the H is going on when/if the pinion flange doesnt intersect my center line when the wheel flanges and perches are square to the centerline. Then I'll add it to the list of sh*t that makes me have a far away look in my eye wondering why Toyoda would do that to us...lol
As for the diff flange being center I figured the ring gear gear would be off center of the carrier to allow the pinion to take center. I'll keep it in mind so I dont pull my hair out wondering what the H is going on when/if the pinion flange doesnt intersect my center line when the wheel flanges and perches are square to the centerline. Then I'll add it to the list of sh*t that makes me have a far away look in my eye wondering why Toyoda would do that to us...lol
- Thread starter
- #532
I made a little progress. I got the long side made and tacked on. Working on the short side.
It's basically a triangular full width gusset. Flat on top to mount and protect the cylinder.
The top is even with the steering stops. I'll also make a guard for the ring gear that ties in with both sides. I still have the knuckle gussets to do too.
It's only going to be tacked in place and I'll have the diff and axles in place before I weld it in.
Kind of slow going with everything going on. Besides fitting the 10 pounds of "stuff" in the 5 pound basket, I have to swap the knuckles side to side and get the big brakes on.
Here's a few pics at least. Also going to try this reusable diff gasket.
It's basically a triangular full width gusset. Flat on top to mount and protect the cylinder.
The top is even with the steering stops. I'll also make a guard for the ring gear that ties in with both sides. I still have the knuckle gussets to do too.
It's only going to be tacked in place and I'll have the diff and axles in place before I weld it in.
Kind of slow going with everything going on. Besides fitting the 10 pounds of "stuff" in the 5 pound basket, I have to swap the knuckles side to side and get the big brakes on.
Here's a few pics at least. Also going to try this reusable diff gasket.
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Looks like some nicely fit pieces.
I may have missed it, but any particular reason you didnt go with an aftermarket housing?
All things considered Im having a hard time imagining keeping the housing true with all the welding, i.e brackets and reinforcements. Possibly very slowly it can be done? I dont have experience in welding housings... but I have experience in unintentionally moving steel because it got welded on.
I'd seal the diff with the right stuff. Or paper and aviation gasket sealant. That gasket looks like it leaves a direct line for leak or sweating of oil.
I may have missed it, but any particular reason you didnt go with an aftermarket housing?
All things considered Im having a hard time imagining keeping the housing true with all the welding, i.e brackets and reinforcements. Possibly very slowly it can be done? I dont have experience in welding housings... but I have experience in unintentionally moving steel because it got welded on.
I'd seal the diff with the right stuff. Or paper and aviation gasket sealant. That gasket looks like it leaves a direct line for leak or sweating of oil.
ntsqd
technerd
With that much length-wise weld seam I'd be looking at how to fixture the housing to try to keep it straight. Even with the best heat management it's going to move, best to have a plan for how to get it back to acceptable if it moves beyond that.
Maybe put n empty drop-out in it and run a cable with a turn-buckle in it from one knuckle ball over the outer pinion bearing and on to the other knuckle-ball; then run it up tight to possibly slightly bending the housing in the opposite direction? That or locate a hyd press big enough to push it back to straight after welding everything. A local 4x4 shop uses a section of BIG I-Beam with a bunch of pin holes drilled thru the web, two 'U' straps with 1" pins, and a 12t bottle jack to straighten axle housings.
On the last front housing that I built for Patch I used some remnant 3/16" Core-10 to make all of the reinforcement parts that would come into contact with rocks. My particular rem came off the end of a gravel/boulder OTR trailer that was being re-lined. Meaning that they cut the bed skin loose from the frame of the dump bed frame and replaced it all. This metal alloy is made to have rocks sliding on it all day, every day. Wasn't easy to find, I had to find the welding shop that regularly rebuilt dump beds and those trailers and bought the rem from them. None of the local steel houses could get it in the small amount that I needed.
LubeLocker has a pretty good reputation, I'll venture that if it does leak that it's a mfg'ing flaw and not a design flaw. I've never been into either diff often enough to justify a re-useable gasket and have always just used The Right Stuff.
Maybe put n empty drop-out in it and run a cable with a turn-buckle in it from one knuckle ball over the outer pinion bearing and on to the other knuckle-ball; then run it up tight to possibly slightly bending the housing in the opposite direction? That or locate a hyd press big enough to push it back to straight after welding everything. A local 4x4 shop uses a section of BIG I-Beam with a bunch of pin holes drilled thru the web, two 'U' straps with 1" pins, and a 12t bottle jack to straighten axle housings.
On the last front housing that I built for Patch I used some remnant 3/16" Core-10 to make all of the reinforcement parts that would come into contact with rocks. My particular rem came off the end of a gravel/boulder OTR trailer that was being re-lined. Meaning that they cut the bed skin loose from the frame of the dump bed frame and replaced it all. This metal alloy is made to have rocks sliding on it all day, every day. Wasn't easy to find, I had to find the welding shop that regularly rebuilt dump beds and those trailers and bought the rem from them. None of the local steel houses could get it in the small amount that I needed.
LubeLocker has a pretty good reputation, I'll venture that if it does leak that it's a mfg'ing flaw and not a design flaw. I've never been into either diff often enough to justify a re-useable gasket and have always just used The Right Stuff.
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- #535
I would have liked to just go aftermarket housing and do a lot of other things differently. Other than the suspension, this is a low buck, run what ya brung kinda build. Long story short is I got hurt at work a while back. Lost my job and live on a fixed income. I have great credit but I don't use it. I pay cash as I go. I work on other people's stuff for extra cash. So I have WAY more time than I have money and I like to tinker in the garage. When my pain level maxes out I quit for the day.
RTV is what I always used to seal the diff housing. I agree, it works great. I just don't like prying it off and cleaning the sealing surfaces. I go through a lot of aviation gasket sealant too. Another one of my favorites. This gasket has good reviews. I was concerned over the thickness at first. I found that the compressed thickness is .025" so I'm trying it. I actually grease most of my gaskets so I can get things apart. Well things that come apart for maintenance like hubs and such. I hate scraping gaskets. Especially on the trail. I can usually reuse my greased gaskets a couple times. Like hub gaskets.
I make bushings for the housing and run a bar or tube through it. I strap it down as well. I also peen areas of concern with a rounded bit for my air hammer immediately after I finish the bead. Something I picked up at the welding shops at the mines. I've done a bunch of these 85 Toyota axles and have been fortunate enough to not bend any. Well they all went together without problems. Not saying they didn't distort at all. I never measured. I did a couple 9" Ford housing mods and Dana 60's. Helped straighten one 60 that a friend bought bent. I know it can happen and I do my best to avoid it.
Loose fitting weld joints probably cause most of the problems people have. I try to have tight fitting weld joints, Strong tacks in the right places, bracing or jigs, take my time and move around and don't let it get too hot. Hopefully I don't have to get another housing when I'm done. I'm not afraid to show my failures and I don't get hurt feelings if you say I told you so. I take a LOT from these forums and hopefully I can give back. Even if it's my mistakes for others to learn from.
ntsqd, I wish I still had access to the mines and construction shops I used to frequent. Their metal scrap bins were a treasure trove of good stuff. The bed liner material was always at least 1" thick unfortunately.
I welcome the opinions, questions and feedback. Merry Christmas to everyone!!
RTV is what I always used to seal the diff housing. I agree, it works great. I just don't like prying it off and cleaning the sealing surfaces. I go through a lot of aviation gasket sealant too. Another one of my favorites. This gasket has good reviews. I was concerned over the thickness at first. I found that the compressed thickness is .025" so I'm trying it. I actually grease most of my gaskets so I can get things apart. Well things that come apart for maintenance like hubs and such. I hate scraping gaskets. Especially on the trail. I can usually reuse my greased gaskets a couple times. Like hub gaskets.
I make bushings for the housing and run a bar or tube through it. I strap it down as well. I also peen areas of concern with a rounded bit for my air hammer immediately after I finish the bead. Something I picked up at the welding shops at the mines. I've done a bunch of these 85 Toyota axles and have been fortunate enough to not bend any. Well they all went together without problems. Not saying they didn't distort at all. I never measured. I did a couple 9" Ford housing mods and Dana 60's. Helped straighten one 60 that a friend bought bent. I know it can happen and I do my best to avoid it.
Loose fitting weld joints probably cause most of the problems people have. I try to have tight fitting weld joints, Strong tacks in the right places, bracing or jigs, take my time and move around and don't let it get too hot. Hopefully I don't have to get another housing when I'm done. I'm not afraid to show my failures and I don't get hurt feelings if you say I told you so. I take a LOT from these forums and hopefully I can give back. Even if it's my mistakes for others to learn from.
ntsqd, I wish I still had access to the mines and construction shops I used to frequent. Their metal scrap bins were a treasure trove of good stuff. The bed liner material was always at least 1" thick unfortunately.
I welcome the opinions, questions and feedback. Merry Christmas to everyone!!
ntsqd
technerd
Know anyone still working there that can "recycle some of that scrap" for you?
First time that I saw the air hammer peening trick was on some 30" ID, Super-Critical Steam* Turbine pipe at the power plant that I worked at. I thought it was genius! One of the welders told me that they'd been doing that for decades.
*1200°+F, ~1500 PSI steam
First time that I saw the air hammer peening trick was on some 30" ID, Super-Critical Steam* Turbine pipe at the power plant that I worked at. I thought it was genius! One of the welders told me that they'd been doing that for decades.
*1200°+F, ~1500 PSI steam
I come here to read and feel dumb 
nice work!
nice work!Sounds like you have a plan! I'd like to see the jigging process. I could probably come up with an over thought idea on jigging it up, but it likely doesnt have to be that complicated. Can you elaborate on the peening deal?
- Thread starter
- #539
toyota boy, I have a 6 ' long alignment bar that goes through the housing. I machined aluminum bushings that fit the ends where the inner axle seals go. I'm a little concerned right now because I have my short bar for my knuckles but I can't find my long bar. I think I know who it got loaned out to. I got dimensions for everything from Pirate 4x4 years ago.
The peening was originally taught to me mainly for when welding cast iron to minimize the stress to avoid cracking. Even with the proper rod, pre heat and post heat I saw cast iron crack. My welding instructor was able to re do others work and the peening was the only thing he did different. It also helped in other situations that he demonstrated. I've seen other welders do it as well. Sometimes with a needle scaler.
I am not a welder by trade. I did a 1 year welding program years ago because my employer required mechanics to know how to weld. So take what I say with a grain of salt.
As a field mechanic, we often tore down large machinery and set up for the field machinists to weld up worn out bores and such so they could machine back to spec. Those guys knew how to heat a spot and you could see linkage and even large loader arms pull back into position just by heating and cooling. Or weld a bead and it would move. They were good. I just worked along side them.
I'm not a machinist either. I just happen to have an old manual lathe and mill. I'm just a guy that is making do with what I have or can afford. I learned a lot by working with many old school craftsman.
I'm no engineer either and I appreciate advice or opinions if I get heading off in the wrong direction.
ntsqd, unfortunately I have no connections anymore to the mining or construction world. I miss the free stuff.
The peening was originally taught to me mainly for when welding cast iron to minimize the stress to avoid cracking. Even with the proper rod, pre heat and post heat I saw cast iron crack. My welding instructor was able to re do others work and the peening was the only thing he did different. It also helped in other situations that he demonstrated. I've seen other welders do it as well. Sometimes with a needle scaler.
I am not a welder by trade. I did a 1 year welding program years ago because my employer required mechanics to know how to weld. So take what I say with a grain of salt.
As a field mechanic, we often tore down large machinery and set up for the field machinists to weld up worn out bores and such so they could machine back to spec. Those guys knew how to heat a spot and you could see linkage and even large loader arms pull back into position just by heating and cooling. Or weld a bead and it would move. They were good. I just worked along side them.
I'm not a machinist either. I just happen to have an old manual lathe and mill. I'm just a guy that is making do with what I have or can afford. I learned a lot by working with many old school craftsman.
I'm no engineer either and I appreciate advice or opinions if I get heading off in the wrong direction.
ntsqd, unfortunately I have no connections anymore to the mining or construction world. I miss the free stuff.
Im thinking I could F some things up in a hurry with a air hammer in one hand and a welder in the other, lol. I'm fairly decent at using a rose bud and water to move steel... air hammer would likely be a similar learned skill.
Does the alignment bar need to be anything special or does a mostly pretty straight piece of 1 1/4"+ round stock do the trick?
Does the alignment bar need to be anything special or does a mostly pretty straight piece of 1 1/4"+ round stock do the trick?
